Real Estate Crash thread

[Kevo]

Lol at DIVVE. 3.5 is pretty steep for a jet.

All sorts of wtf there. I've been to Driggs. It did not strike me as a 3.8 mil town (pre-pandemic). Maybe up toward the ghee, but a few blocks off Main? A guy I used to know moved from Bellingham to Driggs/Victor because it was too unaffordable here!

The guy who gets flown in on a biz jet is not supposed to be the guy living under its flight path.

The runway is way too close to neighborhoods. Major WTF at the airport and how it is managed. The city is getting hit with a huge bill to move the runway after people in and around said neighborhood complained. Turns out the existing runway placement doesn't have a legal runway protection zone. https://buckrail.com/city-of-driggs-...reed-memorial/

RE: the RNAV- the airport is too close to the Tetons/ Targhee for an RNAV on RWY 22, so RWY 4 is the only option for an instrument approach. Runway 22 also happens to be the designated calm wind runway and the prevailing wind direction, so that is the runway that local pilots use most often. 22 has a published right hand traffic pattern to keep air traffic away from downtown. Most airports have left hand traffic patterns. The RNAV for runway 4 drops pretty steeply over the Big Holes (mountains to the west of town). Biz jets on IFR clearance get basically to the crest of those mountains (VICUP waypoint) before they can reliably make radio calls on CTAF. It is very common to have one or more small planes flying right traffic pattern on 22 when a jet on the RNAV for 4 comes in hot through VICUP, 10.5 miles from the airport.

The good jet pilots will quickly realize that there are planes in the pattern for 22 and will immediately sidestep left to set up for a kinda high workload right traffic visual approach to 22 while communicating with traffic in the pattern. In order to do this you'd need to have done a little bit of homework to research the runway and traffic patterns well in advance, like you're supposed to.

The bad jet pilots announce a 10 mile final, continue to follow their pre-programmed RNAV approach, sometimes all the way down to the runway, while other pilots flying a 22 pattern try to communicate with them. The other planes in the pattern have to break off their approaches to not die.

Other bad jet pilots will sidestep to the right and set up for a left traffic visual approach to 22 because they just assume that there is a left traffic pattern for 22. The causes several problems- the valley is tighter to the south, which means tighter turns to avoid hitting the Tetons and a higher workload and it also exposes traffic in the correct right traffic pattern for potential mid air, head on collisions with the left traffic pattern jet.

Some of the biz jet pilots are fractional ownership jet service/ jet rental service pilots that are used to towered airports and seem to have forgotten how to make CTAF radio calls.

I think everyone who flies out of that airport has a story about having some kind of conflict or near miss with a jet on the RNAV for 4 while they are flying 22.

It's a total shitshow, especially around holidays.

Last thing re: Bellingham vs Driggs prices- somehow houses that were $500kish in that particular neighborhood in 2019 are now north of $3mm. It really defies logic- there are nicer neighborhoods with better views, nicer golf courses, etc but the prices in the neighborhood directly under the approach to the airport are for some reason 2x the prices of the better locations. Is it money laundering? Or a great sales team? I really don't know.

[neckdeep]

somehow houses that were $500kish in that particular neighborhood in 2019 are now north of $3mm. It really defies logic- there are nicer neighborhoods with better views, nicer golf courses, etc but the prices in the neighborhood directly under the approach to the airport are for some reason 2x the prices of the better locations. Is it money laundering? Or a great sales team? I really don't know.

It's rich tools from out of state who plan flip the $3m house for $6m in a couple years. The new "Look-at-Me!" people, who think its normal to drive their porsche coupe in the middle of the winter to get groceries. The assclowns who all go to the same trailheads and the same crowded boat ramps.. A bunch of fucking lemmings, in general.

[snapt]

The runway is way too close to neighborhoods. Major WTF at the airport and how it is managed. The city is getting hit with a huge bill to move the runway after people in and around said neighborhood complained. Turns out the existing runway placement doesn't have a legal runway protection zone. https://buckrail.com/city-of-driggs-...reed-memorial/

Pretty sure the feds are subsidizing most of the major airport work via FAA grants. Hence why the city ignored the petition to put a weight limit on Aircraft at the airport. Had that been successful all FAA funding would have disappeared. Municipal budgets in the country are pretty fuckered. Past mismanagement combined with inflation and Idaho's budgeting laws are a lose/lose for residents.

[anotherVTskibum]

NYT noticed that housing is tough in Summit County. I guess they should've read this thread a while back. (Share link should bypass pay wall)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/b...smid=url-share

[Toadman]

NYT noticed that housing is tough in Summit County. I guess they should've read this thread a while back. (Share link should bypass pay wall)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/b...smid=url-share

True capitalism at work in a mountain town.

[Bunion 2020]

NYT is about 5-10 years late to the party.

[skaredshtles]

NYT noticed that housing is tough in Summit County. I guess they should've read this thread a while back. (Share link should bypass pay wall)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/b...smid=url-share

And here you have it:

"Laurie Best, the longtime planning manager for housing in the community development department for the Town of Breckenridge, said she had emphasized deed-restriction policies and more generally trying to preserve existing units to reduce the need for new ones.

Ms. Best and her backers have acceded to some construction at a slow and steady pace, but they staunchly oppose taller, dense multifamily buildings, which are not, as she put it, “consistent with the character of the town.” "

[Ted Striker]

Last thing re: Bellingham vs Driggs prices- somehow houses that were $500kish in that particular neighborhood in 2019 are now north of $3mm. It really defies logic- there are nicer neighborhoods with better views, nicer golf courses, etc but the prices in the neighborhood directly under the approach to the airport are for some reason 2x the prices of the better locations. Is it money laundering? Or a great sales team? I really don't know.

Yeah, that's just nuts. [shrug emoji]

RE: the airport/flying shitshow, that's a pretty egregious example, but not particularly surprising. There are a lot of guys who are afraid of what they perceive to be sticking their neck out (taking visuals/canceling IFR, hand flying, etc) lest something goes sideways and they're out of a job. And then there are the "we're a jet in Indian country" bullies. Plus there are guys out of the military that never flew any general.

Back when I was doing corporate & air ambulance, I tried to keep in mind that there could be some kid doing their first solo turning base.

[climberevan]

Good article.

"The stock available is limited: 70 percent of homes in the county are second homes that sit vacant most of the year or serve as short-term rentals, she said, typically Airbnbs."

Laws should be passed to make illegal the practice of STRing houses in residential neighborhoods.

[goldenboy]

And here you have it:

"Laurie Best, the longtime planning manager for housing in the community development department for the Town of Breckenridge, said she had emphasized deed-restriction policies and more generally trying to preserve existing units to reduce the need for new ones.

Ms. Best and her backers have acceded to some construction at a slow and steady pace, but they staunchly oppose taller, dense multifamily buildings, which are not, as she put it, “consistent with the character of the town.” "

Where do you even start with that kind of stupidity? Deed restrictions that completely screw over the people that do them, and slow development that ensures appreciation will just keep ramping up. But no one likes development so screw it, let's just watch those prices go to the moon!

[Foggy_Goggles]

Ms. Best and her backers have acceded to some construction at a slow and steady pace, but they staunchly oppose taller, dense multifamily buildings, which are not, as she put it, “consistent with the character of the town.

Props for honesty. I think is this way of thinking was more transparent, we'd have a better conversation. Just like many things today, the politicians claim to be trying to engineer a painless solution while effectively doing very little other that justifying their own existence, the Karen's weaponize their opinions (or as they like to call them their rights) and are just plain nasty and those with the true power keep cashing checks at laugh at all of us in the back room at Cherry Creek Country Club.

[neckdeep]

She's still not saying the quiet part out loud: people like her and "her backers" don't want multi-family buildings because working families means paying taxes to fund social services. More kids means hiring more teachers and nurses who have to be paid too much because of the housing crisis. That's not going to happen if they can help it.

They want to drive up prices and externalize costs. That's a win-win!

[yeahman]

Laws should be passed to make illegal the practice of STRing houses in residential neighborhoods.

Yes. And lawsuits should be filed against these schmucks. Nobody should be allowed to run a mini-hotel out of a residential neighborhood at the expense of their neighbors.

[neckdeep]

Yes. And lawsuits should be filed against these schmucks. Nobody should be allowed to run a mini-hotel out of a residential neighborhood at the expense of their neighbors.

Nah. Jesus was really into property rights. The Sermon on the Mount is just one long rant about the sacred right to do whatever you want on your own property.

[schuss]

She's still not saying the quiet part out loud: people like her and "her backers" don't want multi-family buildings because working families means paying taxes to fund social services. More kids means hiring more teachers and nurses who have to be paid too much because of the housing crisis. That's not going to happen if they can help it.

They want to drive up prices and externalize costs. That's a win-win!

Eh, it's often simpler than that. "When I moved here it was like X. I like X, I don't want it to by Y. You say people can't afford things, so they need to be Y, but I just want the town to stay the way it is."
As someone that's on a small town planning board, the resistance to change is much more prevalent than any evil planning or optimization, and much easier to sell as they just have to pitch nostalgia and people are in their camp.

[fastfred]

Article is funny same bullshit different publication

Interested to see what you beaters think as usual.

I know the people mentioned in the breck part I know ge system and I know who has been paying me 100s of thousands of dollars over the years

I'm directly involved on alot of this and sone of it affects ne

I got lots to say but I enjoy my anonymity here I can't say much w out giving up who I am.

As always got here 28 years ago got mine gonna keep raping the place and move on and fuck up another town soonenough

[Danno]

New article in the CO Sun about a lawsuit against Breck for its STR regs: https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/17/s...t-term-rental/

One thing the article does not explain, and it is pretty big one, is what the basis for the suit is. Sure, it explains why these owners don't like the regs and how it might force some of them to sell or whatever. But generally speaking, unless they are alleging some constitutional or statutory violation, the regs only have to have a rational basis, they don't have to be "fair to everyone" in the way these people think, they don't have to be "correct", there just has to be some rational basis for the authorities to impose the regs. And there clearly is.

[skaredshtles]

New article in the CO Sun about a lawsuit against Breck for its STR regs: https://coloradosun.com/2023/08/17/s...t-term-rental/

One thing the article does not explain, and it is pretty big one, is what the basis for the suit is. Sure, it explains why these owners don't like the regs and how it might force some of them to sell or whatever. But generally speaking, unless they are alleging some constitutional or statutory violation, the regs only have to have a rational basis, they don't have to be "fair to everyone" in the way these people think, they don't have to be "correct", there just has to be some rational basis for the authorities to impose the regs. And there clearly is.

yEaH? WhAt aBoUt mY CoNsTiTuTiOnAl rIgHt tO Do wHaTeVeR ThE FuCk i wAnT? Eh??

[Foggy_Goggles]

I think I'm less anonymous than Freddy and has a bit less money tied up in the game but who knows? I am an elected official, does that make me a politician?

I think Schuss generally has his finger on the pulse. There is so much emotion involved. It's pretty hard to know what people truly think collectively as its only the people that scream the loudest that get heard. Stereotypically, many of these relatively new to the mountains peeps are running scared. They think first it's multifamily followed shortly thereafter my pit bulls, open air drug markets, homeless encampments and the absolute worst...non whites under the age of 40.

Other issue that looks like it starting to manifest around here is that market rate non subsidized multi family rentals are in competition with The Projects. Winterpark has a absolute goat fuck of a project going on right now where they can't get their own building CO'd. They went from granite counter top missing middle type units to the Motel 6. Income restricted studios are renting for $1800ish and they can't fill them.

So yeah, its a giant cluster fuck with everyone pointing the finger at everyone else.

[fastfred]

One goal of the lawsuits is to bleed the country and town govts forcing them to defend themselves wasting countless dollars and employees time

This is one of many lawsuits ti come

I'm all for it and think it's great

Posted while being throat fucked on i70

[altacoup]

Good article.

"The stock available is limited: 70 percent of homes in the county are second homes that sit vacant most of the year or serve as short-term rentals, she said, typically Airbnbs."

Laws should be passed to make illegal the practice of STRing houses in residential neighborhoods.

I would absolutely just love if STRs were banned nation wide. Such a cancer on our society on so many levels,

[climberevan]

I make money from the STR leeches too, but I'm not afraid to say that they should all GTFO. I charge them a ton extra when they need shit, and would be perfectly happy if that market disappeared completely and I only worked for people with jobs in the community.

It's not all about maximum profit all the time.

[fastfred]

I

It's not all about maximum profit all the time.

Your doing it wrong

It is all about profit money is the reason u wake up and goto work every day

[climberevan]

Your doing it wrong

It is all about profit money is the reason u wake up and goto work every day

Shoot. Should I start working every day instead of riding my bike and rock climbing on weekdays? Are the people who are taking work calls while eating their take-out dinner happier than the ones who spent the day going for a bike ride and then cooking dinner from their garden?

It really seems that people have lost sight of the concept of "enough". Like, when you get enough, let off the fucking gas. If society as a whole did this instead of constantly pushing for more, we wouldn't be running out of planet.

[Meadow Skipper]

It really seems that people have lost sight of the concept of "enough". Like, when you get enough, let off the fucking gas. If society as a whole did this instead of constantly pushing for more, we wouldn't be running out of planet.

Why do you hate America?