To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[ex-powderbroker]

At one point there was allot of talk about one Provence in India where ivermectin was heavily used and the overall results seemed to be better than other parts of the country that did things differently

The strange thing is I saw the information in print and video formats. But cannot seem to find it now

I have not even bothered to look at what it was initially prescribed for? I know humans we’re taking it for something

Weird that you heard it but can't find anything to back it up now, maybe someone posted a bunch of nonsense with no data and then you just repeated it to us.

fucking hell man, ivermectin is used to kill worms. please get help, mental help.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ed/5173021001/

[hutash]

This pretty much sums it up...

Many potential COVID-19 treatments that showed promise in test tubes, including the antimalarial hydroxychloroquine promoted by former U.S. President Donald Trump, ultimately failed to show benefit for COVID-19 patients once studied in clinical trials.

https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...al-2022-01-31/

Many drugs, ivermectin included, have anti viral properties, but that does not mean they are beneficial in treating virus in vitro (think Trump and bleach). At massive doses ivermectin might be anti viral, but so is being dead from an over dose anti viral. So far all results I have seen, but I have not looked exhaustively, show mixed results at best, toxic results at worst. Seems to be as effective as placebo, another wonder drug for Joe Rogain.

[CarlMega]

Seems to be as effective as placebo, another wonder drug for Joe Rogain.

Unfortunately, the "I want to believe" crowd never intersects with the "I want to *know*" crowd.

Fundamentally different world views.

[old goat]

Waning booster effectiveness. This is based on clinical data, not antibody levels.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/...cid=mm7107e2_x

[funkendrenchman]

“Dr. Peter Marks, head of the FDA division responsible for vaccine safety, said data had rapidly come from Pfizer and BioNTech indicating that it was best to wait for data on a third dose.”

In other words - 2 doses fell far short and they knew it would be hard to convince parents to get their kids vaccinated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/11/pfiz...s-under-5.html

[LongShortLong]

“Dr. Peter Marks, head of the FDA division responsible for vaccine safety, said data had rapidly come from Pfizer and BioNTech indicating that it was best to wait for data on a third dose.”

In other words - 2 doses fell far short and they knew it would be hard to convince parents to get their kids vaccinated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/11/pfiz...s-under-5.html

How's the gubermint going to control us like that? This is a plot by Big Mask to sell more kiddie masks. You all are sheeeeeep

[skiJ]

In other words,
it is a three-injection proposal, and they do not have the results from the third dose yet, And

they ( Pfizer and FDA. it is a proposal that was solicited/ requested by the FDA ) ... they recognized it was going to be difficult to support approving emergency use authorization with Incomplete testing - when, if they just delay the review six weeks, they will have complete trial results.

the antibody response in six-month olds to two-year olds was described as "robust". . . .


good luck.
Thank you -- tj

[skiJ]

( references are cited up-thread in trying to misrepresent the vaccine development process ) tj

[Hopeless Sinner]

BA.2 seems to have the potential to be very damaging, what do the experts here think?

[The SnowShow]

BA.2 seems to have the potential to be very damaging, what do the experts here think?

Fuck. Does it look like it evades current vaccines? People are so worn out from this, I doubt most would take the necessary precautions if BA.2 was bad (unless people are dying en masse).

[Hopeless Sinner]

Fuck. Does it look like it evades current vaccines? People are so worn out from this, I doubt most would take the necessary precautions if BA.2 was bad (unless people are dying en masse).

This study suggests based on lab studies that there could be issues ahead. Here is the link to the pre-print out of Japan.


https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...335v1.full.pdf

[old goat]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00471-2

[::: :::]

Omicron is receding, but the “Odyssey Continues”, esp for small rural hospitals

“Several days this week the hospital was so backed up with patients, the hospital temporarily asked the local ambulance service to stop bringing new ones to the emergency room.”

As omicron recedes in Oregon, this small hospital treats record number of coronavirus patients https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavir...-patients.html

[BobMc]

At one point there was allot of talk about one Provence in India where ivermectin was heavily used and the overall results seemed to be better than other parts of the country that did things differently

The strange thing is I saw the information in print and video formats. But cannot seem to find it now

I have not even bothered to look at what it was initially prescribed for? I know humans we’re taking it for something

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2789362

[MiddleOfNight]

data point: I'm at day6 of my covid ride. All symptoms are long gone, I'm told to return to work tomorrow (masked).
I was vaccinated, maybe that had something to do with my ride being easy. Though, since it had been +6 months since I got a shot, I was treated as 'unvaccinated' ...
Just glad it was mild. Lucky.

[SumJongGuy]

data point: I'm at day6 of my covid ride. All symptoms are long gone, I'm told to return to work tomorrow (masked).
I was vaccinated, maybe that had something to do with my ride being easy. Though, since it had been +6 months since I got a shot, I was treated as 'unvaccinated' ...
Just glad it was mild. Lucky.

Good to hear you got through it OK. Sorry you have to go back to work tomorrow though glad you have work :-)

[riser4]

More like smoking than the flu: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...smoking/622819

[LongShortLong]

More like smoking than the flu: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...smoking/622819

A useful analogy though it breaks down badly. There is no chance I will catch a case of smoking at the market.

I'd also like to see a careful argument of the author's notion that Covid is similar to flu for the vaccinated. CDC lists 8,000 flu deaths in 2019. If I take vaccination at 80-90% effective against death, I get 40,000-80,000 annual Covid deaths. And Covid attacks many organs in ways flu does not. Sub-note that flu also has a vaccine so the correct comparison is to those vaccinated for flu.

[old goat]

A useful analogy though it breaks down badly. There is no chance I will catch a case of smoking at the market.

I'd also like to see a careful argument of the author's notion that Covid is similar to flu for the vaccinated. CDC lists 8,000 flu deaths in 2019. If I take vaccination at 80-90% effective against death, I get 40,000-80,000 annual Covid deaths. And Covid attacks many organs in ways flu does not. Sub-note that flu also has a vaccine so the correct comparison is to those vaccinated for flu.

The number of yearly flu deaths is considerably higher than 8000 in the US. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...0%20and%202020.

I would still agree with you that the annual burden (deaths, hospitalization, long term effects) of Covid will be substantially higher than that of flu for the foreseeable future. A lot depends on the unknowns--an inhaled vaccine that prevents transmission, a variant specific vaccine that does the same, an even more transmissable, less pathogenic variant that replaces the current variants and makes covid no worse than a cold, a super transmissible, vaccine resistant, highly pathogenic variant that puts us back on square one or worse. No use trying to guess the future with Covid.

[SumJongGuy]

No use trying to guess the future with Covid.

Stay prepared for the worst (plenty of masks and sanitizer products stocked up) while hoping for the best.. What would really suck is for a variant to evolve that's also highly surface transmissible like norovirus is.. It's manageable for one or the other, semi airborne OR surface transmission.. But having to constantly mask up AND wash/sanitize fucking everything anyone else touched with in the past week would really suck.

[old goat]

Don't worry too much. After the super variant kills enough people it will die out from a lack of targets. Like Benny says, all pandemics end. Or as the dinosaurs used to say, how bad could this be?

[SumJongGuy]

Don't worry too much. After the super variant kills enough people it will die out from a lack of targets. Like Benny says, all pandemics end. Or as the dinosaurs used to say, how bad could this be?

And sometimes the same one keeps coming back for.... Centuries..
The Black Death: A Timeline of the Gruesome Pandemic

Kept coming back well in to the 17th century..


Pandemics That Changed History

[Percy Rideout]

Aus border fully reopened today to anyone with a visa who is double-dose vaccinated after being shut for 704 days.

It's estimated the Aus tourism industry lost $90 billion over those two years due to the closure, and will likely not recover to pre-pandemic levels.

Got me thinking that a calming down of global tourism may not be such a bad thing. Travel was getting more and more hectic each passing year. Kinda took some of the fun out of it when we'd skip destinations or experiences because they were either jam-packed and/or outrageously overpriced. Maybe now they'll just be overpriced.

And with a 2+ year lag on the travel appetite....Get ready for the throngs to be back! Things will be crowded AND overpriced.

Add in the hundreds (thousands?) of Aussie businesses that depended on those tourist dollars and had to close up shop due to extended lockdowns, and there will be less places for said tourists to spend time/money and things will be even more crowded. Sounds fun!

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Ok so talk me out of going to the Dr.

TLDR;

Had covid in Jan. Heart palpitations and chest pain for like 7-10 days. Eventually went away. I dialed my training way back and was only doing LSD/Z2 indoor bike rides, weight lifting, skiing (with hiking). Past month my chest has felt normal. Did intervals for the first time yesterday on the bike. Z3 maybe higher. Up to 180bpm. Felt great. Went to the hot springs after/sauna. Felt amazing. Laid down to go to sleep and bam....lightning bolt heart zaps again. Dull achy chest pain, worse when laying down, random heart zaps. Stayed up until 1am. The thought crossed my mind to drive to the ER. Took two asprin and finally fell asleep.

Woke up the AM and felt fine again. Pow day. Did one ridge hike. Chest pain and a little lightheaded. Numbness in my fingers. Bailed on a second hike. Chest pain lingering.

[riser4]

Ok so talk me out of going to the Dr.

TLDR;

Had covid in Jan. Heart palpitations and chest pain for like 7-10 days. Eventually went away. I dialed my training way back and was only doing LSD/Z2 indoor bike rides, weight lifting, skiing (with hiking). Past month my chest has felt normal. Did intervals for the first time yesterday on the bike. Z3 maybe higher. Up to 180bpm. Felt great. Went to the hot springs after/sauna. Felt amazing. Laid down to go to sleep and bam....lightning bolt heart zaps again. Dull achy chest pain, worse when laying down, random heart zaps. Stayed up until 1am. The thought crossed my mind to drive to the ER. Took two asprin and finally fell asleep.

Woke up the AM and felt fine again. Pow day. Did one ridge hike. Chest pain and a little lightheaded. Numbness in my fingers. Bailed on a second hike. Chest pain lingering.

Go to the doctor.