Real Estate Crash thread

[Foggy_Goggles]

Just like sellers have their own motivations, so do STR owners.

I think that's right. Plenty of people manage their place with a price floor. As the weekend comes, if the weather looks questionable, the price drops.

Around here, your neighbor is your business competitor. Friendly dog walk one minute that back to the computer to adjust the pricing.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

There are definitely plenty of STR in Big Sky that are priced very high to only capture top demand. Places do sit vacant most of the time. They will take the money if it's a $/night they can't refuse but aren't trying to have it rented all the time to keep down on the wear. They can still jump on a flight short notice and their condo is probably available.

[Shredhead]

“Palm Springs capped Airbnb rentals. Now some home prices are in free-fall
Palm Springs curbed short-term rentals in some neighborhoods. Now homeowners are watching their property values drop, sometimes drastically.”
LA-Times

[Flounder]

Does capping STRs in resort towns reduce the cost of housing? Results in Palm Springs say yes. Poor YouTuber’s $1.5 mil property is now worth only a mil.

https://archive.fo/2024.01.23-132301...e-in-free-fall

[fastfred]

Does capping STRs in resort towns reduce the cost of housing? Results in Palm Springs say yes. Poor YouTuber’s $1.5 mil property is now worth only a mil.

https://archive.fo/2024.01.23-132301...e-in-free-fall

not where I live
don't see it
but the fantasy of all these local politicians who haven't really worked a day in their life seem to think regulations will bring down values so we can finally create the locals only utopia filled with bars restaurants ski lifts and a quaint downtown all without those pesky tourists

[Foggy_Goggles]

Does capping STRs in resort towns reduce the cost of housing? Results in Palm Springs say yes. Poor YouTuber’s $1.5 mil property is now worth only a mil.

https://archive.fo/2024.01.23-132301...e-in-free-fall

People love to say no but really their is little financial incentive to LTR. Plenty of renters I know have had their LTRs converted to STRs and now have to compete for a smaller pool of LTRs.

This, in my opinion, is a big reason why all the mountain towns are all about the subsidized housing model. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Buoy real estate prices, pack it the tourists (wallets), keep wages low, maintain the veneer of happiness and generate tax revenue but externalize the costs of keeping it all going on life support.

[Mazderati]

STR caps make me rock hard.

[goldenboy]

A STR cap if you already have a STR license = profit, no?

It will be interesting to see how Crested Butte's new regulations play out, in terms of the "block face" cap. If you're selling a home on a block with no current STR's, you're stoked. If there are already too many STR's on the block face, the buyer will have to wait for a license.

I still like Winter Park's program of paying STR's to convert to LTR. I'm pretty sure the math works a lot better than trying to build. Maybe Foggy disagrees though

[Yukonrider]

My town capped STRs early on, I have to say I love it. I'm glad they were doing this before STRs were a big deal, and they enforce the requirements too.

Will fewer STRs bring down housing prices? Yes. If an asset brings in less cash flow it is worth less. Appreciation and government market manipulation notwithstanding

[Foggy_Goggles]

I still like Winter Park's program of paying STR's to convert to LTR. I'm pretty sure the math works a lot better than trying to build. Maybe Foggy disagrees though

I mean it does create rentable beds. But it should be available to anyone not just current STRs. And having the employer to the party on the rental contract is a bit much for me. And it is totally gamed. Chet has an STR that he converts to an LTR so Chets buddy Chad has a place for his four restaurant employees to live.

Said a different way. I know a shit ton of people that would get in the LTR landlording game in the $10k year subsidy plus rent backed by a business owner was available. Seriously, I build the fuck outta a quadplex with $40k/annually in government cheese plus leases signed by established in town business owners.

https://wpgov.com/stf/#:~:text=The%2...operty%20owner.

[goldenboy]

I mean it does create rentable beds. But it should be available to anyone not just current STRs.

Yeah, agreed. If the goal is to get beds, let an investor buy or build if it makes sense with the $10k.

[durangobrad]

STR caps make me rock hard.

Me too, since I have one of the few permits in the downtown area it makes my profits go up!

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[rideit]

My town capped STRs early on, I have to say I love it. I'm glad they were doing this before STRs were a big deal, and they enforce the requirements too.

Will fewer STRs bring down housing prices? Yes. If an asset brings in less cash flow it is worth less. Appreciation and government market manipulation notwithstanding

Well, Jackson has very strict (and enforced) STR policies, (and capped them really early) and look at the shit-show here.

I can go into the details, but basically there are NO permits unless you own in a “resort overlay” zone, which actually makes sense.

[Mazderati]

Me too, since I have one of the few permits in the downtown area it makes my profits go up!

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STR bans take me from calcite to corundum, brett.

[4matic]

So you’re relying on a realtor, to bring their buyer clients, to buy the house they listed!? Seems dubious.

Does anyone even really use their realtor to steer them into houses anymore? We bought in 18 and 21 and both times we found the house looking at Zillow or Redfin, then the realtor just got a showing setup. Most of the time we saw all the houses they were pushing us before they sent the email.

What could a realtor do that would out market the promotion listing with Redfin gives you? Redfin listings are more likely to be deemed a “hot home” and they get priority listing / pushed to any users of the app.

Surprisingly, yes, I thought the same thing but the reality is a lot of buyers rely on the advice and guidance of buyer broker. Especially where there is large immigrant communities.

[fastfred]

Well, Jackson has very strict (and enforced) STR policies, (and capped them really early) and look at the shit-show here.

I can go into the details, but basically there are NO permits unless you own in a “resort overlay” zone, which actually makes sense.

same in breckenridge total junk show this weekend is going to be hell on earth
they capped STR permits and pretty much said no to any future permits except the "resort overlaid"
some how property values are going down and hundreds of homes are going to revert back to the good ole days and become shit hole ski bum flop houses yeah right

[G. Gordon Liddy]

Quick topic change, but my folks passed away last year and I'm trying to sell their home. I haven't listed it yet, but a family friend of a friend reached out and wants to buy it. So my question is that as long as it's a fair price, do a I bring in a real estate agent, and if so, can I negotiate a flat fee for helping us with paperwork etc? Any real estate folks have some thoughts here?

[liv2ski]

GGL. I would definitely have at least two agents do a market summary and price suggestion for you, as I have found stuff typically sells for more than the comps suggest to me as a value range and pricing stuff myself leaves a lot of cash off the table.
Case in point, my deceased mom's home comped out at $500k IMO. Agent suggested listing at $525k and it just sold for $550k.
Our Redfin agent listed it for 1.5% and likely would of done both sides for under 3% which I think is very fair.

[neckdeep]

same in breckenridge total junk show this weekend is going to be hell on earth
they capped STR permits and pretty much said no to any future permits except the "resort overlaid"
some how property values are going down and hundreds of homes are going to revert back to the good ole days and become shit hole ski bum flop houses yeah right

FACT: There's no more ski bum houses in ski towns because now that's where the fucking middle class is expected to live. Reasonable housing opportunities for the middle class open up the less desirable properties for the working class.

17 of 44 homes in my middle class subdivision are STR. They are booked maybe 1 night in 3, at best. If you think this doesn't have massive effects on a ski town, you are an idiot.

It's such a cliche to say the billionaires are chasing out the millionaires. You know who says that horseshit? The dirtpimps and millionaire property investors who priced out everyone else. Billionaires don't chase anyone out of town. But, their presence sure does make the millionaires go buck wild with greed.

[Iowagriz]

Everyone likes to hate on HOAs, but one of the top reasons for ours is to enforce no rentals under 6 months.

[Art Shirk]

Quick topic change, but my folks passed away last year and I'm trying to sell their home. I haven't listed it yet, but a family friend of a friend reached out and wants to buy it. So my question is that as long as it's a fair price, do a I bring in a real estate agent, and if so, can I negotiate a flat fee for helping us with paperwork etc? Any real estate folks have some thoughts here?

As long as you are fine with the price, I’d handle that with just a real estate attorney on hourly


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[jackstraw]

As long as you are fine with the price, I’d handle that with just a real estate attorney on hourly


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Yeah, when my parents passed we sold the house via an attorney because it was a hot sellers market and people came to us. There is value with comp comparisons when setting the sell price that an agent can provide, but you can do that on your own with some work.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Everyone likes to hate on HOAs, but one of the top reasons for ours is to enforce no rentals under 6 months.

What state? How long have the covenant been in place and what was the threshold for approval? I think the challenges in Colorado is that a. too many owners are pro STRs to pass the super majority (2/3s usually I think)? And the HOAs have such little legal teeth that they would be unable to inforce.

[Toadman]

Quick topic change, but my folks passed away last year and I'm trying to sell their home. I haven't listed it yet, but a family friend of a friend reached out and wants to buy it. So my question is that as long as it's a fair price, do a I bring in a real estate agent, and if so, can I negotiate a flat fee for helping us with paperwork etc? Any real estate folks have some thoughts here?

Yes. I had a friend use a RE agent (turns out to be our agent that we have used multiple times as well) that she had used in the past at regular commission rates but in this one similar to yours, she asked her agent if she would be okay doing this for a flat fee to shepherd the process through to completion. Obviously helps to have that prior relationship.

[XXX-er]

I had a lawyer write my deal and it went great, but different country eh