Climate Change

[uglymoney]

Reminder that here in Iowa we are now powered by 64% wind, a new record. In 23 we finished at 62%.

One of the least sincere arguments fronted around here is that wind/solar takes land out of crop production. Which is true, but a tiny amount compared to ethanol, which consumes 57% of corn acreage here and zero percent of that goes to people food (a small amount of byproduct is used to feed livestock). It is burned for energy. Depending on the source wind/solar produces 40 to 60 times the btu's per acre as ethanol. You can still grow food crops under windmills.

Some of these energy experts should try living next to an ethanol plant, powered by coal. Grain trucks arriving day and night belching diesel fumes. Coal trains dropping their toxic cargo, burning the coal to cook the corn belching mercury into the atmosphere and creating toxic coal ash. Legacy aquifers sucked dry to provide the water needed to boil the corn. Smoke belching from smoke stacks. Topsoil hemorrhaging from the bare land with every rainstorm. Not to mention the corn ethanol fields full of plants emitting massive amounts of pollen and water vapor which makes the area unliveable if you have allergies and miserable during the heat of summer...all to produces a fractional amount of energy, at best, which is carried away in yet more train cars. Depending on how you count the inputs it is more likely a net energy loss.

Yet, crickets.

But those evil windmills!






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[old goat]

For system wide power storage for low solar and wind periods expect to see alternatives to batteries as time goes on--things like pumping water uphill or hydrogen created from water with solar power.

[xyz]

For system wide power storage for low solar and wind periods expect to see alternatives to batteries as time goes on--things like pumping water uphill or hydrogen created from water with solar power.

Technically possible? Yes. Realistic no.

This ideological fantasy thinking and death grip on wind and solar is holding us back. Go nuclear.


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[SumJongGuy]

do better.. that is all

[skaredshtles]

I sure am glad that numbnuts isn't in charge.

[grskier]

Outside of the noise, unrecycleable waste and footprint of wind and solar, their problems are obvious, they are intermittent. No wind, no sun, no power. Yes of course batteries can store but they aren’t scalable to provide consistent power for peak demands. Plus battery mining practices are mostly child labor in the Congo.

Wind and solar will always need backup power. Either coal, gas or nuclear. So why bother. Just go full nuclear. It has the highest capacity factor. Like 4x wind and solar. Wind and solar are site specific. You can’t put them everywhere. Theoretically, a nuclear plant can go anywhere.


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Not going to say the portfolio shouldn't have nuclear, but the rest of what you wrote isn't quite up to snuff.

So,

You will see a number of different storage technologies and scales of those come to market in the next 5 or so years.

XCEL is looking at a 70 MW solar project in Colorado that will have an iron air battery.

There are companies looking at stored energy in concrete

Where space isn't a factor you'll see sodium ion batteries similar to lithium ion batteries, just need more space as it's lower on the periodic table

The potential stored stuff like water and weights are intriguing in some circles, but you need a lot of cheap real estate at the right elevations... AND have 'extra' energy at some point.

[WMD]

Technically possible? Yes. Realistic no.

This ideological fantasy thinking and death grip on nuclear is holding us back. Go with already developed and available renewables and storage today.


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FIFY

[xyz]

FIFY

You are right, if you ignore the science, engineering, economics and human rights.

[WMD]

You are right, if you ignore the science, engineering, economics and human rights.

LOL!

[old goat]

The energy xyz has put into this thread could have powered 20 homes.

[Buster Highmen]

I'm all for child labor.

It gives those ungrateful wretches something to do and keeps them off my lawn.

[neufox47]

Technically possible? Yes. Realistic no.

This ideological fantasy thinking and death grip on wind and solar is holding us back. Go nuclear.


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Nuclear is vastly more expensive than virtually all renewables. The cheapest power produced is solar and wind.

According to many of the grid operators in TX batteries helped prevent brown puts this summer during the record heat.

And regarding the stupid mining tropes, grid scale batteries are probably not going to be lithium ion. Lithium iron batteries at the consumer scale, are now as cheap as $300 for 1 kWh and can be discharged about 3,000 times or $.10 per kWh. And this is at the consumer retail price.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/bat...power%20demand.

[neufox47]

Also, October 23 was “only” .93 C above the 1990-2020 average…. Amazing all the deniers out there claiming this increase has NOTHING to do with green house gases [emoji23]


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[xyz]

Nuclear is vastly more expensive than virtually all renewables. The cheapest power produced is solar and wind.

According to many of the grid operators in TX batteries helped prevent brown puts this summer during the record heat.

And regarding the stupid mining tropes, grid scale batteries are probably not going to be lithium ion. Lithium iron batteries at the consumer scale, are now as cheap as $300 for 1 kWh and can be discharged about 3,000 times or $.10 per kWh. And this is at the consumer retail price.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/bat...power%20demand.

Ok ok. I surrender. We need to fully transition to 100% wind and solar with 100% battery backup. It’s so cheap, almost free energy. Nothing else comes close. It’s totally possible from an engineering and cost perspective. It’s the best and only option.


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[PB]

Weak sarcasm is weak.

[Rasputin]

Ok ok. I surrender. We need to fully transition to 100% wind and solar with 100% battery backup. It’s so cheap, almost free energy. Nothing else comes close. It’s totally possible from an engineering and cost perspective. It’s the best and only option. ]

If you were concerned with cheap, you wouldn't be advocating for nuclear power.

I know, I know, disingenuous troll is disingenuous.

[xyz]

If you were concerned with cheap, you wouldn't be advocating for nuclear power.

I know, I know, disingenuous troll is disingenuous.

For wind and solar to meet the capacity factor of nuke’s they need to be 4x the nameplate. Plus battery backup. When that’s factored in, nukes are cheaper. And wind and solar are site specific.

But carry on with your fantasy.


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[Mofro261]

For wind and solar to meet the capacity factor of nuke’s they need to be 4x the nameplate. Plus battery backup. When that’s factored in, nukes are cheaper. And wind and solar are site specific.

But carry on with your fantasy.


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Why is it either/or in your world?

We don't rely on any one source currently, why would that change? You are the only one suggesting 100% anything.

Think harder.

[BCMtnHound]

Why is it either/or in your world?

We don't rely on any one source currently, why would that change? You are the only one suggesting 100% anything.

Think harder.

FWIW, there are many places in the world that solar and wind are not the best choice. While relatively small in population served, north (and south?) of 50 mostly relies on diesel fuel, if they can’t link to hydro or gas. Same for lots of less developed countries. What’s China’s hesitation on nuclear? India was buying Candu reactors, wonder how those are playing out.

[xyz]

Why is it either/or in your world?

We don't rely on any one source currently, why would that change? You are the only one suggesting 100% anything.

Think harder.

Wind and solar have a place. They obviously work. But given the climate emergency, we should be prioritizing zero emission power generation that’s reliable with the highest performance. Nuke is the smartest way to lower emissions in a hurry.


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[::: :::]

I’m not following what you mean by “zero emission”

[Mofro261]

FWIW, there are many places in the world that solar and wind are not the best choice. While relatively small in population served, north (and south?) of 50 mostly relies on diesel fuel, if they can’t link to hydro or gas. Same for lots of less developed countries. What’s China’s hesitation on nuclear? India was buying Candu reactors, wonder how those are playing out.

That's my point too. We get a lot of hydro here, but that won't work where the water doesn't flow. Wind and solar should not be 100% objectives, but expanding lower emissions sources and phasing out high emissions sources doesn't require 100% of any one source.

Binary thinking won't move the needle.

[old goat]

An excellent article about the carbon credit fraud. Don't believe it when some company claims to be carbon neutral. Warning--the article is long.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...-carbon-hustle

(I guess a lot of people don't like long articles--the NYT web site tells you how long an article is supposed to take to read. Or maybe, given that mostly Type A people read the NYT, it's so you can compare your reading speed with par.)

[Core Shot]

Nat gas peakers are essential. Quick ramp up and down.
Nukes need to spool up. Same with coal.
Solar and batteries are fine. But nowhere near ready for prime time.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

That's my point too. We get a lot of hydro here, but that won't work where the water doesn't flow. Wind and solar should not be 100% objectives, but expanding lower emissions sources and phasing out high emissions sources doesn't require 100% of any one source.

Binary thinking won't move the needle.

Stop being pragmatic!! Big brains are at work here!!!!

Looks like Core Shot has entered the fray, more big brains at work!!

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