23 Smugg - Imminent!!!

[smmokan]

I'll play (since I have a Hugene and rode the old Smuggler, and am inclined to idly speculate on the internet about these sorts of things).

I bet the Hugene climbs better on steeper, techy trails - lower antisquat numbers (probably, based on my guesses about the Smuggler) and longer chainstays. I bet the Smuggler feels more efficient on fire road climbs. Stability while descending is probably a wash; Hugene has a longer rear end, but Smuggler sits slightly lower and is a smidge slacker. I find the rear end of the Hugene to feel a little flexy sometimes, and I'd venture a guess that the Smuggler will be a bit stiffer. The "high end" build of the Hugene comes with a 150mm 36 though, so that right there probably bumps the Hugene ahead on descents, at least in terms of stock builds.

This about sums it up. The Propain is a much better value too, coming in around $1500 cheaper (and they don't charge tax, FWIW) for a relatively similar build, although they're not apples to apples.

I'll have a large Hugene for sale in about a month, if anyone's interested... it's a hybrid Performance level build, barely used.

[toast2266]

This about sums it up. The Propain is a much better value too, coming in around $1500 cheaper (and they don't charge tax, FWIW) for a relatively similar build, although they're not apples to apples.

Maybe the Smuggler will climb better because your wallet won't be weighing you down so much.

Also, any Tyee's for sale soon? A buddy's in the market for something like that.

[cydwhit]

Lyrik. Cheaper, better small bump sensitivity, stiffer.

That'll be a sick bike. Interested to hear your take on it.

Was leaning that way, good to have your confirmation. I think the million dollar question with a (blingey) frame-up build might be wheels. Go with something burly, and enduro-y, or one something closer to that 1400g mark....

Obvious expensive answer is affordable aluminum wheels with inserts and DD tires for some days, and Roval SL's with Exo tires for others...

[toast2266]

Was leaning that way, good to have your confirmation. I think the million dollar question with a (blingey) frame-up build might be wheels. Go with something burly, and enduro-y, or one something closer to that 1400g mark....

Obvious expensive answer is affordable aluminum wheels with inserts and DD tires for some days, and Roval SL's with Exo tires for others...

Changing wheels all the time is kinda annoying. Constant fiddling with the brakes and derailleurs since they never end up aligning exactly the same. I'd vote for a 1700g +/- wheelset, DD rear, Exo front, Maxxterra on both, and not sweat the grams too hard because it's not an XC race bike. With a Lyrik and a DD rear, I bet you'll still end up in the ~31 lb ballpark, which is entirely respectable.

[smmokan]

Maybe the Smuggler will climb better because your wallet won't be weighing you down so much.

Also, any Tyee's for sale soon? A buddy's in the market for something like that.

Sadly no…. But they have a sale on Tyee frames and builds on the site now. I’d imagine they’ll have more sales in the coming months too.

[XtrPickels]

Was leaning that way, good to have your confirmation. I think the million dollar question with a (blingey) frame-up build might be wheels. Go with something burly, and enduro-y, or one something closer to that 1400g mark....

Obvious expensive answer is affordable aluminum wheels with inserts and DD tires for some days, and Roval SL's with Exo tires for others...

1400g wheels on a bike like this feels wrong. In that case, go with a Spur.
1500 to 1600g gets you better width, durability, and stiffness.

[east or bust]

Slightly lame to not offer a Alloy GX build, though the actual spec difference between Alloy NX and Carbon GX isn't very significant. Also weird that the GX build gets a 36 but the fancy pants AXS builds get a 34.

They definitely had a 36 listed under the GX build this morning. Was also confused.


Kind of a strange niche this bike is filling. The rear shock is truely puzzling.

[Eluder]

1400g wheels on a bike like this feels wrong. In that case, go with a Spur.

He had one of those already.

If it's your only pedal bike, build it to shred and put some real wheels on it.

Kind of a strange niche this bike is filling. The rear shock is truely puzzling.

I don't know, I want a piggyback shock on anything except an XC bike. Maybe an inline coil on the right bike but that's it. I bet this a geographical thing, I look at it and say the fork is puzzling.

[Dantheman]

I don't know, I want a piggyback shock on anything except an XC bike. Maybe an inline coil on the right bike but that's it. I bet this a geographical thing, I look at it and say the fork is puzzling.

This.

[Sandbox]

Yah i'm looking at adding a PB shock to my Tallboy for those long rocky tech DH's in my area for sure. i think the rear shock is well spec'd.

[Andeh]

I don't know, I want a piggyback shock on anything except an XC bike. Maybe an inline coil on the right bike but that's it. I bet this a geographical thing, I look at it and say the fork is puzzling.

Yup. The v1 Smuggler started spec'd with a 34 but then moved to a 36 for the carbon version. Same 140mm front travel.

[zion zig zag]

Speaking of v1 smugglers, anyone have any experience adding the cascade components link and a piggy back shock, going to 140mm?

Have a trip to Oaxaca this fall and descents are long and rocky, so just thinking of ideas to make what I have a little better for that scenario.

[cydwhit]

He had one of those already.

If it's your only pedal bike, build it to shred and put some real wheels on it.

Yep, had a Spur, loved it, but ended up gradually beefing up parts until it was similar in weight to the claimed weights for this new Smuggler. Realized I was trying to make it into something it wasn't meant to be, and sold it to someone who actually wanted to use it for what it was made for, instead of riding bike parks and shuttling it a third of the time like I was. I had the last Smuggler, long-shocked to 130ish and up-forked to 150 mm, and it was by far my favorite bike I've owned. This thing looks like it checks all the boxes that bike did, while saving some weight.

Real wheels it is, in a month or so when I can actually build it up!

[XtrPickels]

They definitely had a 36 listed under the GX build this morning. Was also confused.


Kind of a strange niche this bike is filling. The rear shock is truely puzzling.

That they went with the Float X? It certainly outperforms a DPS.
It fits with the rest of the spec - Assegei and Dissector.
This is a short-travel shred bike.
To be honest, it's the 34 that feels out of place. Hard to say if that's a spec choice or a supply chain choice.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I don't feel like the Deluxe and Pike on my Trail Pistola (130/150) are lacking anything. What am I missing? Am I not enduroing right?
They're also both the Ultimate versions with low speed compression adjustments and such. I think I'm spoiled.

[Eluder]

I don't feel like the Deluxe and Pike on my Trail Pistola (130/150) are lacking anything. What am I missing? Am I not enduroing right?
They're also both the Ultimate versions with low speed compression adjustments and such. I think I'm spoiled.

It's not you. It's your terrain. Everyone knows there are no rocks in Missoula.

[toast2266]

I don't feel like the Deluxe and Pike on my Trail Pistola (130/150) are lacking anything. What am I missing? Am I not enduroing right?
They're also both the Ultimate versions with low speed compression adjustments and such. I think I'm spoiled.

The pike is a bit more fork than the 34. A little heavier, and a little stiffer.

But personally, for a 150 fork I'd want a 36 or lyrik. Stiffer chassis, less flex induced stiction, and more oil volume. They're basically what happens if you take a 34 / pike and add ~200 grams to make the suspension work better.

Just comes down to whether you're prioritizing weight or suspension performance.

[toast2266]

It's not you. It's your terrain. Everyone knows there are no rocks in Missoula.

There's that one rock on 3 larches.

I think it has a ride around now though.

[Eluder]

There's that one rock on 3 larches.

I think it has a ride around now though.

[Dantheman]

I don't feel like the Deluxe and Pike on my Trail Pistola (130/150) are lacking anything. What am I missing? Am I not enduroing right?
They're also both the Ultimate versions with low speed compression adjustments and such. I think I'm spoiled.

Shocks get hot on long descents. Hot oil has lower viscosity and makes the damper work less gooder. Reservoir shocks have more oil and shed heat better so the oil stays cooler they work more gooder under sustained cycling. If your descents are not very long and/or very smooth the benefits of a reservoir shock will be less noticeable. But, the weight penalty is pretty negligible and it's sprung frame weight, they tend to have better damping overall, and the price premium is pretty minimal at equivalent trim levels. There's really no reason not to run one unless you are 110% committed to shaving every possible gram.

[zion zig zag]

Yep, had a Spur, loved it, but ended up gradually beefing up parts until it was similar in weight to the claimed weights for this new Smuggler. Realized I was trying to make it into something it wasn't meant to be, and sold it to someone who actually wanted to use it for what it was made for, instead of riding bike parks and shuttling it a third of the time like I was. I had the last Smuggler, long-shocked to 130ish and up-forked to 150 mm, and it was by far my favorite bike I've owned. This thing looks like it checks all the boxes that bike did, while saving some weight.

Real wheels it is, in a month or so when I can actually build it up!

Sounds like you could probably answer my questions re: upgrading current smuggler. Mind if I shoot you a PM?

[bagtagley]

Sounds like you could probably answer my questions re: upgrading current smuggler. Mind if I shoot you a PM?

What if the rest of us are interested? C'mon, it's dead in here.

[zion zig zag]

What if the rest of us are interested? C'mon, it's dead in here.

Hey more than happy to have it public, just don’t want to derail the thread. All advice welcomed.

Like I said, contemplating trying to make the Smuggler a little more shuttle worthy. So going to 140/150, piggyback shock, bigger rotors, maybe a 2.5 Assegai up front. Thoughts, worthy upgrades for long, techy descents? Weight would be negligible, geometry stays the same if I bump up front and back? Downsides?

[toast2266]

Hey more than happy to have it public, just don’t want to derail the thread. All advice welcomed.

Like I said, contemplating trying to make the Smuggler a little more shuttle worthy. So going to 140/150, piggyback shock, bigger rotors, maybe a 2.5 Assegai up front. Thoughts, worthy upgrades for long, techy descents? Weight would be negligible, geometry stays the same if I bump up front and back? Downsides?

I think the main downside is that you're throwing a bunch of money at trying to make a short travel bike into something bigger, but the bike still has geometry that's more suited to a shorter travel bike. So the question is whether it makes more sense to just sell the smuggler and get something that's longer travel in stock form.

That said, the v1 smuggler is one of very few bikes where jacking it up kinda makes sense. I don't think your plan is a bad one, but given that good deals are starting up sprout up this spring, I'd probably lean towards swapping out for a longer travel bike.

[Eluder]

I don't think your plan is a bad one, but given that good deals are starting to sprout up this spring, I'd probably lean towards swapping out for a longer travel bike.

I would echo this