To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[dunfree]

Why can’t the dumb and dishonest tell the difference between years? I mean, it worked until it didn’t. You fuckers would have, wait, did kill a million in the us and act like that was free

[SumJongGuy]

The drunk driving analogy used to be the preferred analogy.

You could make the analogy now that those not vaccinated are like people who don't wear seatbelts because they think they are safe drivers and the seatbelt is more dangerous. Mostly a danger to themselves (although you don't want to be in a car wreck with other unrestrained occupants... they fly around and smash others). This attitude lets me know that you are part of a particular ideological tribe that you place performative adherence to as first priority, and/or your have naturally low trust in others and an inability to consider and absorb good information from good sources. It is the current best-case look. It is not a good look.

The bigger problem is that the analogy to drunk driving instead of not wearing a seatbelt, that is directly/indirectly endangering others as well as yourself, while not as accurate anymore, well it used to be quite apt. It was true for nearly a year and it was true up until 2022 with Omicron. That says further to me about a vaccine resistant person's tribal badges trumping care for others and society, and/or your cynicism outweighing your humanity. This is a very bad look.

That's my judgment after taking care of a fuck ton of COVID patients, directly and indirectly, including the ones who died after being infected by their antivaxxer caregiver family members who prevented them from getting the vaccine. Our world is a little different than when you get your info from twitter and the TV talking heads. But go ahead, accuse me of being judgy. I have a good fucking reason.

I think the seatbelt rationale was not a lot different than the ski helmet rationale... It's not so much about protecting the person who doesn't want to be protected from harm as it is protecting SOCIETY from the costs of supporting the results of their poor decision.. i.e. all of our insurance premiums and taxes go up to pay caregivers to change their diapers and wipe the drool from their chins for DECADES until they finally die..

And that rationale also works for vaccines... It costs us all more when a few make poor choices there...

[Meadow Skipper]

…a vaccine resistant person's tribal badges trumping care for others and society, and/or your cynicism outweighing your humanity…

I see what you did there.

[summit]

I see what you did there.

unintentional, but fitting

[Ted Striker]

Why can’t the dumb and dishonest tell the difference between years? I mean, it worked until it didn’t. You fuckers would have, wait, did kill a million in the us and act like that was free

Those afflicted with Main Character Syndrome don't count NPCs.

[The AD]

The Seattle Times has a story about long Covid today:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...arch-underway/

[leroy jenkins]

The drunk driving analogy used to be the preferred analogy.

You could make the analogy now that those not vaccinated are like people who don't wear seatbelts because they think they are safe drivers and the seatbelt is more dangerous. Mostly a danger to themselves (although you don't want to be in a car wreck with other unrestrained occupants... they fly around and smash others). This attitude lets me know that you are part of a particular ideological tribe that you place performative adherence to as first priority, and/or your have naturally low trust in others and an inability to consider and absorb good information from good sources. It is the current best-case look. It is not a good look.

The bigger problem is that the analogy to drunk driving instead of not wearing a seatbelt, that is directly/indirectly endangering others as well as yourself, while not as accurate anymore, well it used to be quite apt. It was true for nearly a year and it was true up until 2022 with Omicron. That says further to me about a vaccine resistant person's tribal badges trumping care for others and society, and/or your cynicism outweighing your humanity. This is a very bad look.

That's my judgment after taking care of a fuck ton of COVID patients, directly and indirectly, including the ones who died after being infected by their antivaxxer caregiver family members who prevented them from getting the vaccine. Our world is a little different than when you get your info from twitter and the TV talking heads. But go ahead, accuse me of being judgy. I have a good fucking reason.

Seatbelt analogy works for me. Places that let the cops pull you over for seatbelt violation don't do so for public safety, but rather as an excuse to involve the police in more peoples lives and create revenue generation and of course, control.


I wouldn't say lack of trust for these three companies, one of which received the biggest corporate fine in US history for outright fraud and deceit, is the same as cynicism towards the universe in general. Especially when the director of the CDC admits she based policy decisions on CNN and hopeful (she doesn't use the word wishful but come on) thinking.

I just wish people could start respecting each others choices at this point. People who don't trust the vax are not just stupid ignorant etc. Personally I've been waiting for them to seem like a good idea, or for a better vax to come out, and as time goes on I get less and less tempted to get jabbed.

[summit]

Seatbelt analogy works for me. Places that let the cops pull you over for seatbelt violation don't do so for public safety, but rather as an excuse to involve the police in more peoples lives and create revenue generation and of course, control.


I wouldn't say lack of trust for these three companies, one of which received the biggest corporate fine in US history for outright fraud and deceit, is the same as cynicism towards the universe in general. Especially when the director of the CDC admits she based policy decisions on CNN and hopeful (she doesn't use the word wishful but come on) thinking.

I just wish people could start respecting each others choices at this point.

Yep. Comparing vaccines to police fishing for revenue. We got one. Low trust and a decreased ability to select and synthesize good information. All due respect...

[skiJ]

Seatbelt analogy works for me. Places that let the cops pull you over for seatbelt violation don't do so for public safety, but rather as an excuse to involve the police in more peoples lives and create revenue generation and of course, control.


I wouldn't say lack of trust for these three companies, one of which received the biggest corporate fine in US history for outright fraud and deceit, is the same as cynicism towards the universe in general. Especially when the director of the CDC admits she based policy decisions on CNN and hopeful (she doesn't use the word wishful but come on) thinking.

I just wish people could start respecting each others choices at this point. People who don't trust the vax are not just stupid ignorant etc. Personally I've been waiting for them to seem like a good idea, or for a better vax to come out, and as time goes on I get less and less tempted to get jabbed.

_ _ _

[leroy jenkins]

Yep. Comparing vaccines to police fishing for revenue. We got one. Low trust and a decreased ability to select and synthesize good information. All due respect...

You're right, the cops get a lot less revenue from tickets than the pharma cos have from the vax.

Its hyperbole I admit it, but no less ridiculous than the drunk driving analogy. We were never going to have zero covid even with full vax. Its somewhere between the two analogies.

You say all due respect but I don't think you know what it means. Starting from the standpoint that someone is mentally deficient is pretty much the definition of dismissive.


Who is I should trust exactly? Like who am I lacking in trust for that is trustworthy? How is low trust for untrustworthy a flaw? Any sensible media coprorate system would have looked at low public trust and realized its because of a poor track record as much as ignorant hillbillies that don't have any census workers to take shots at.

[SumJongGuy]

Seatbelt checks are also usually DWI and license/insurance checks... same as a tail light out... or brake light.

Went in a charity thrift shop today that put the mask requirement back up... The folks who work there live in a treatment center, communal living so I understand why they want to be extra careful.

[Cisco Kid]

_ _ _

Me too

[dunfree]

The conspiracy theory end for privileged idiots

[skiJ]

it's been a long day -

leroy's post from Shanghi was a sobering way to start my day ;
it is incredibly sad to me that in the twenty-first century people still treat each other this way - Ukraine, too.

the driving analogies are lost on me -
covid is a potentially deadly infectious disease - I don't see how it compares with a driving choice.
The virus is not cognizant -
If one is susceptible and infected, the disease process ... ( can be pretty unforgiving ) ;

I certainly don't believe the Director of the CDC has said she bases policy decisions on 'CNN and hopeful thinking (or wishful thinking )' but throw it out there and see if it sticks... ;

I could accept the claim that one does not trust either Government nor big pharma - I lean that way too.
But to say one is waiting for a 'better vaccine' or a 'better reason' to get "jabbed" ,,, you lose me, much as my friends who have chosen not to be vaccinated are isolated from me.

yes - the vaccines have limits -
immunity wanes, and immunity reduces transmission but does not eliminate the possibility of transmission.
These limitations do not make the vaccines failures ;

vaccination is an important tool to controlling covid - yet last week, in usofa, approximately 3,000 people still died with covid.
If you are waiting for a vaccine that provides life-long immunity and/or 'sterilizing' immunity, be prepared to wait a very long time
( I am not-sure it is even possible for a virus readily capable of variation ( variants) ) ;

which brings me to the ideas of tolerance and respect for choices -
I am sorry, no.

The statement I read that I believe states it well is,
covid is a potentially deadly transmissible disease,
covid is not a partisan statement ( nor is it a matter of religion. ) ;

I won't use any of the disrespectful stereotypical descriptions that I have read above regarding Unvaccinated.
as I mentioned above, I have friends who are unvaccinated - and for now, we will not be interacting in-person.
They are still my friends.

There was a recent example of someone who was out-for-dinner with friends, and in the middle of dinner, one of the 'friends' announced that he/she/they were unvaccinated.
If you were they primary caregiver of an elderly parent, would you consider this to be 'friend'-ly ?
I do not --


Please be vaccinated - and boostered.

thanks. tj

[jfost]

Masks work.

[old goat]

Seatbelt analogy works for me. Places that let the cops pull you over for seatbelt violation don't do so for public safety, but rather as an excuse to involve the police in more peoples lives and create revenue generation and of course, control.


I wouldn't say lack of trust for these three companies, one of which received the biggest corporate fine in US history for outright fraud and deceit, is the same as cynicism towards the universe in general. Especially when the director of the CDC admits she based policy decisions on CNN and hopeful (she doesn't use the word wishful but come on) thinking.

I just wish people could start respecting each others choices at this point. People who don't trust the vax are not just stupid ignorant etc. Personally I've been waiting for them to seem like a good idea, or for a better vax to come out, and as time goes on I get less and less tempted to get jabbed.

If you want people to respect your choices make better choices. This idea that all viewpoints, choices, and decisions are equally valid and should be respected is absurd. There are issues that are a matter of opinion. This is not one of them.

[bennymac]

“ This idea that all viewpoints, choices, and decisions are equally valid and should be respected is absurd.”

This has been explained to him a dozen times. He’s either stupid or he’s ignoring it because it interferes with his narcissism and self righteousness displays.

[The AD]

At this point with over 11 billion Covid vaccines administered I think the data is very compelling that they are very safe overall. The statistics showing the difference in outcomes for the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated also speak for themselves. I guess if that evidence isn't enough nothing is ever going to convince you to get vaccinated. Over six million dead from Covid worldwide now and we're still losing something like 3,000 people per day.

[::: :::]

More truthy FIFY

I guess, if that evidence isn't enough, it seems clear that you were never really interested in the science in the first place, nor are you now.

[summit]

At this point with over 11 billion Covid vaccines administered I think the data is very compelling that they are very safe overall. The statistics showing the difference in outcomes for the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated also speak for themselves. I guess if that evidence isn't enough nothing is ever going to convince you to get vaccinated. Over six million dead from Covid worldwide now and we're still losing something like 3,000 people per day.

There's a reason I told him all due respect. The respect due is vastly less today than it was, say, a year ago.

There are people who aren't quite sure evolution is a thing, that 9/11 might have been perpetrated by our own government, and that COVID vaccines aren't an all around good idea.

Their inherent low trust and tribal tendencies makes them vulnerable to bad info and slow to select and internalize good info. At some point their wild misunderstandings become a permanent feature for many of these believers.

[oldnew_guy]

I’m lucky that I routinely get to hang out with highly educated people working in healthcare and healthcare related research as it is a good reminder that I don’t even know the fundamentals of what they do ( and I’m not talking about biology 101 or how to be an EMT.)

Lots of other people apparently think they know how to evaluate the efficacy of treatments, perform structural design of building and conduct public and foreign policy based on their deep understanding of . . .?

[abraham]

I’m lucky that I routinely get to hang out with highly educated people working in healthcare and healthcare related research as it is a good reminder that I don’t even know the fundamentals of what they do ( and I’m not talking about biology 101 or how to be an EMT.)

Lots of other people apparently think they know how to evaluate the efficacy of treatments, perform structural design of building and conduct public and foreign policy based on their deep understanding of . . .?

I think there's value in some outsider perspectives. But there's also this which I may have posted before.

One of my formative childhood lessons came when I was playing in the garage one day. I went into my mom’s car and put the seatbelt on (probably to pretend I was flying a plane). I realized at one point that I could still lean pretty far forward. Far enough that my head could touch the dashboard. How ridiculous! What’s the point of the seatbelt if it doesn’t actually stop me from going too far? I reveled in my discovery that seatbelts were useless.

A while later, I pulled on the seatbelt quickly (a lot happens in imaginary aerial dogfights), and the seatbelt immediately stopped. An overwhelming feeling of stupidity hit me almost as fast. Nine-year-old me was not in fact smarter than Toyota engineers.

https://www.dannyguo.com/blog/my-sea...-for-judgment/

[oldnew_guy]

I think there's value in some outsider perspectives. ]

For sure and we should have a conversation about competing needs and interest, but my point is that when someone proclaims some fact about vaccines or masking or how they work or whatever, is that unless that person has advanced training, they likely don’t’ even understand nor could explain the fundamentals of the thing they are spouting off about.

[::: :::]

the often unspoken, but assumed, "good faith" modifier...
as in: "I think there's value in some [good faith] outsider perspectives."

[Casey E]

Just to wrap up the Chilean experience with boosters



"Fully vaccinated" is 80% Sinovac x 2. Booster #1 started in August 2021 and #2 in January, both mostly Pfizer.

Rolling out the mRNA booster quickly was key in keeping the death rate from Delta and Omicron from spiking even more. Of note is the lower death rate for the Sinovac vaccinated vs unvaccinated during the first wave of Delta in October. Didn´t help much when Omicron and Delta laggards converged in February. Probably close to 80% of Chileans have a booster.