To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[KQ]

[MultiVerse]

Those numbers imply that the virus kills less than 0.3 percent of people infected by it[/B]—far lower than the infection fatality rates (IFRs) assumed by the alarming projections that drove the initial government response to the epidemic, including broad business closure and stay-at-home orders."
https://reason.com/2020/05/24/the-cd...ate-below-0-3/

The higher initial IFR estimates at the time, your article says 0.8, assumed a worst-case scenario where severe cases exceed hospital capacity. Fortunately, and for the most part, that didn't happen because people took precautions. In places where it did happen studies show patients were nearly twice as likely to die. And as previously mentioned, mortality rates fell over time as better treatments became avaiblable.

The point being, the numbers people bandy about for things like IFR and CFR aren't fixed in stone but are instead functions with many variables.

[jono]

Oh FFS. IFR being calculated by people who don't know what a denominator is. (Or lying Russian agents, take your pick.)

We've had a million excess deaths, two thirds of which are known to be COVID. One million is 0.3% of our entire population. We did not have between 200M and 315M infections.

[Toadman]

I also had a co-worker tell me his wife tested positive. Sounds like a fairly moderate case, with fever, cough and sore throat. But that was last week. Hopefully that was the worst of it. He's self quarantining now. Luckily wasn't exposed to him. I hope he decides to get the shot now. He's in a high risk category too. Trying not to browbeat my anti-vax co-workers but this kind of stuff just makes me SMH.

Found out yesterday that my co-worker's wife has been hospitalized. Don't know her current status, but obviously her symptoms and conditions have worsened enough that she was taken to hospital.

[alembical]

Imagine if chemo was free, took 10 minutes and had virtually no side affects

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[mtuhockey33]

imagine people wanting you to get a vaccine when natural immunity from having Covid works just as well as actually getting the vaccine… and for anyone saying it doesn’t last as long; I’d like to see some proof since neither the virus or the vaccine has been around for over a year… currently, with what we know, they’re damn near the same.

https://www.precisionvaccinations.co...ble-and-robust

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-variants.aspx

[MultiVerse]

^ Two glaring issues with the articles:

1) The first article says convalescent COVID-19 patients mount durable antibodies, B cells, and T cells. While that's true, there are also multiples studies showing people with mild or asymptomatic natural infections don't necessarily mount a robust immune response. We also know the immune response from vaccines is much more consistent versus natural infection.

2) The second article compares the CoronaVac or SinoVac vaccine with natural infection, a vaccine that is a lot less effective than the mRNA vaccines.

[old goat]

Just to make it clearer: vaccinated people do not transmit the virus at the same rate as the unvaccinated.

In other words, vaccinated people don't transmit the virus at the same rate because they are considerably less likely to be infected in the first place. If a vaccinated person is infected, however, the increased viral load from the Delta variant can make even vaccinated people infectious.

One reason the CDC hasn't emphasized this point or the media reported it is that AFAIK there aren't good numbers yet for delta. It is undoubtedly true--by orders of magnitude, but numbers would be useful. Maybe they're out there; can't say I've knocked myself out looking for them.

[CarlMega]

barely worth pointing this out - but 99.7 would be fatal cancer not just cancer. The odds are much greater that you'll be infected w/ COVID, experience symptoms, maybe develop disease, maybe have longer term effects, infect others and yes...a smaller percentage will die.

Edit to add: if, instead of a treatment, there was a cancer vaccine that would prevent a .3% fatal cancer I'd take that in a hot minute. My generation missed out the HPV vax which would be a better analog here.

[LongShortLong]

imagine people wanting you to get a vaccine when natural immunity from having Covid works just as well as actually getting the vaccine… and for anyone saying it doesn’t last as long; I’d like to see some proof since neither the virus or the vaccine has been around for over a year… currently, with what we know, they’re damn near the same.

https://www.precisionvaccinations.co...ble-and-robust

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-variants.aspx

Imagine comparing morbidity and mortality risk profiles, then choosing natural immunity over vaccination. Ow, my arm hurt for a few days.

[DougW]

imagine people wanting you to get a vaccine when natural immunity from having Covid works just as well as actually getting the vaccine… and for anyone saying it doesn’t last as long; I’d like to see some proof since neither the virus or the vaccine has been around for over a year… currently, with what we know, they’re damn near the same.

then go ahead and get in that pile

[bodywhomper]

One reason the CDC hasn't emphasized this point or the media reported it is that AFAIK there aren't good numbers yet for delta. It is undoubtedly true--by orders of magnitude, but numbers would be useful. Maybe they're out there; can't say I've knocked myself out looking for them.

It’s because the cdc fucking chose to not institute surveillance. A pretty big face to palm by public health peeps when cdc chose to reduce monitoring.

[DougW]

Imagine comparing morbidity and mortality risk profiles, then choosing natural immunity over vaccination. Ow, my arm hurt for a few days.

Mine didn't hurt at all, had to punch around to fine the injection site the next day, was it right or left?

[mtuhockey33]

then go ahead and get in that pile

Not quite sure what that’s supposed to be a picture of… I haven’t been sick since I originally had Covid, my symptoms were basic runny nose/cough and had I not gotten tested, I probably wouldn’t have even knew I had Covid… I’ll take my chances with the Covid again through natural immunity over getting an EUA vaccine…

[bennymac]

Not quite sure what that’s supposed to be a picture of… I haven’t been sick since I originally had Covid, my symptoms were basic runny nose/cough and had I not gotten tested, I probably wouldn’t have even knew I had Covid… I’ll take my chances with the Covid again through natural immunity over getting an EUA vaccine…

if you end up in the hospital you’ll be begging (between deep breaths) for every EUA medication and vaccination they can possibly give you

[DougW]

That is a pic from South Park when the men of current time try to reduce the population in the future by 'going gay" . So its a pile of naked men getting the pink jab. Is that the way you're going to get a booster?? I'd rather my arm hurt a bit rather than my butt, but that just me.

This is in a way that precovid argument of getting childhood diseases rather than getting the shot like MRR etc. If everyone had to get covid the natural way then the death rate would be what 10 times higher and masking etc would last 10 times longer just to not overwhelm the health care system. If the vaccines had failed then that is at least a logic path. Get the young and healthy infected on purpose in order to protect the vulnerable.

[CarlMega]

Not quite sure what that’s supposed to be a picture of… I haven’t been sick since I originally had Covid, my symptoms were basic runny nose/cough and had I not gotten tested, I probably wouldn’t have even knew I had Covid… I’ll take my chances with the Covid again through natural immunity over getting an EUA vaccine…

So, once they are not EUA, will you be getting one? Or will the goal posts and qualifiers continue to shift?

This goes like:

"It's EUA, I don't trust it."
to
"Even thos it's not EUA, well, I have natural immunity."
to
Well, even tho vax + past infection resistance = best preventative science.. we'll be back to "I don't trust it"

Nothing but disingenuous bullshit.

[KQ]

Mine didn't hurt at all, had to punch around to fine the injection site the next day, was it right or left?

should have used a magnet.

[mtuhockey33]

So, once they are not EUA, will you be getting one? Or will the goal posts and qualifiers continue to shift?

This goes like:

"It's EUA, I don't trust it."
to
"Even thos it's not EUA, well, I have natural immunity."
to
Well, even tho vax + past infection resistance = best preventative science.. we'll be back to "I don't trust it"

Nothing but disingenuous bullshit.

I love your whatabout-isms… it’s almost like you can’t form an argument either. Holy fuckkkk. It’s okay though, I’m just patiently waiting for this whole thing to get out of control again so you can complain about people dying and nobody caring… oh wait; that’s what all the vaccinated are saying now! If you haven’t gotten a vaccine, fuck you! I need my freedumbs

[CarlMega]

I love your whatabout-isms…

I don't think you know what whatabout-isms are, dumbshit.

I posed a question - which you didn't answer.

But, got it. You will be against basically doing anything and you'll conveniently shift in little qualifiers and "gotchas" as they fit your narrative.

[The AD]

I need my freedumbs

Yes, we understand your moronic position.

[Ted Striker]

lol at the guy who says Covid-19 hasn't been around for over a year. So I guess this is the nineteenth version of covid?

[Ted Striker]

re: that stupid q meme, christ people are idiots. The 99.7% it refers to isn't the "chance" of not being infected with covid. If we continue on our current path the "chance" is 100% that every single living American will get it.

Chemo is a treatment not a prophylactic. There are about 2 million new cancer cases per year in the US. That's a little more than half of one percent of the population, yet if a general cancer vaccine were invented, almost everyone would take it.

The meme text is also grammatically incorrect, and contains a word that doesn't actually exist.

Strong work, tards. Strong work.

[Buzzworthy]

I love your whatabout-isms… it’s almost like you can’t form an argument either. Holy fuckkkk. It’s okay though, I’m just patiently waiting for this whole thing to get out of control again so you can complain about people dying and nobody caring… oh wait; that’s what all the vaccinated are saying now! If you haven’t gotten a vaccine, fuck you! I need my freedumbs

You people have had the chance to do what is right. Now fuck you all for this continued bullshit. As far as I’m concerned anti-vaxxers can all die and I’m not going to think twice about it.

[Kinnikinnick]

Here’s how we get the Trumptards vaxxed:


We send a hard drive to Mike Lindell with emails showing Killery masterminded the plot to trick red blooded patriotic Americans into not getting the shots.

IT’s a LIB plot to kill Republicans! Demoncrats plotted to con them to not get vaccinated from the shots that gives immunization against the virus that the Dems / Fauci released to plot socialism taking away Medicare and Medicaid!!

Own the Libs, get vaxed!!!




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