To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[uglymoney]

"I was livid even though my wife and I are both vaxxed."

Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from the virus they were vaccinated against because you're not vaccinated.

"Need another reason to mask up? People may get long COVID19 after a breakthrough infection.

While vaccines protect from severe disease, we know the vaccinated can still carry the virus (to some extent, we don’t know this number with Delta) and can, but rarely, display symptoms (i.e. breakthrough cases). The vaccine doesn’t seem to provide 100% “sterilizing immunity”. And this is normal. Many of our vaccines don’t provide this level of protection. For example, our measles vaccine protects us from disease, but we can still carry it if we come in contact with it. This is why a measles outbreak, like at Disneyland, can be very dangerous.

One of the pandemic mysteries is whether the vaccinated (and particularly breakthrough cases) can get long COVID19? Yesterday we got our first look.

The New England Journal of Medicine published a study of breakthrough cases among healthcare workers in Israel. Scientists tested 1,497 healthcare workers from December 19, 2020 to April 28, 2021 at the largest medical center in Israel. (Note this is before Delta).

Of the tested workers, 39 breakthrough cases were detected. All were traced back to unvaccinated index cases (either household members or patients). Among the breakthrough cases…

-Average age was 42 years
-The average time from the second vaccine dose to breakthrough case was 39 days (range: 11-102)
-1 person was immunocompromised

What did the breakthrough infections look like?
-67% were mild or asymptomatic. No breakthrough cases were hospitalized
-The most common symptom was coughing (36%), followed by muscle pain (28%), loss of smell or taste (28%), and fever (21%)
-31% had symptoms lasting more than 14 days
-19% had symptoms lasting more than 6 weeks (i.e. long COVID). This included loss of smell, cough, fatigue, weakness, difficulty breathing, and/or muscle pain
—-Nine workers (23%) took more than 10 days off from work. One worker had not yet returned after 6 weeks.

Bottom line:
Breakthrough infections with Alpha were rare. However, 1 in 5 breakthrough cases reported long COVID19, regardless of severity of disease. We need a whole lot more data, but this is a really important first look in understanding the burden of breakthroughs.

We know that Delta is less forgiving than Alpha. If you’re not convinced already, it’s time to mask up.

Love, YLE"

Link to my newsletter with data sources: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...kthrough-cases

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[::: :::]

I can only figure that RJ is using this forum to supplement his other troll personas on other forums: taking the counter arguments someone posts here and using them to poke at anti-vaxxers over there; & then reversing course with the latest anti-vax “data” here.

[mtuhockey33]

Choose one:

A) get covid and .68% chance of death.
B) get vaccinated and 0.00082% chance of dying from vaccine.

https://covid-101.org/science/whats-...-get-covid-19/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34055843/



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That first link is a real hoot! You’re comparing all Covid cases to how kids ages 5-17 fared against the virus… arguably the ones who the best response to viruses against everyone else…. And the chance of dying is still less than that of going canoeing for anyone 25 and under (your article states Covid deaths are ~ 10/100,000 for people 25&under)

but you’re right; everyone needs to take this vaccine so we can get back to normal and have everyone wear masks in social settings again.

[Dexter Rutecki]

That first link is a real hoot! You’re comparing all Covid cases to how kids ages 5-17 fared against the virus… arguably the ones who the best response to viruses against everyone else…. And the chance of dying is still less than that of going canoeing for anyone 25 and under (your article states Covid deaths are ~ 10/100,000 for people 25&under)

but you’re right; everyone needs to take this vaccine so we can get back to normal and have everyone wear masks in social settings again.

Even if people who went canoeing were then able to cause infection. hospitalization, and possibly death in older people/those with pre-existing conditions and through their canoeing help more deadly/infectious variants to emerge your point would still be wrong.

Do you really think that if we had 100% vax status ANYONE would still have to wear a mask? That's the whole point--everyone gets vaxed so we can be done with this, you ignorant, selfish fucks. This isn't tough--there's no fucking conspiracy of epidemiologists to get you to wear masks because...they don't like how the bottom part of your face looks.

I mean, what in the world makes you think that you or your dimwitted, Trumptarded leaders know better than smart people whose lives have been dedicated to studying, understanding, and battling viruses like this one? You people need to change your behaviors or be exiled to covidland so the rest of us can stop dealing with you.

[Core Shot]

E

Do you really think that if we had 100% vax status ANYONE would still have to wear a mask? That's the whole point--everyone gets vaxed so we can be done with this, you ignorant, selfish fucks. This isn't tough--there's no fucking conspiracy of epidemiologists to get you to wear masks because...they don't like how the bottom part of your face looks..

No. No I don’t

Check Iceland or Israel.

This delta spread is largely breakout among the vaxed.

Vax ain’t working for muh freedumb
It might prevent deaths and hospitalization

This shit keeps spreading.

Sweden was and is the right call.

[CarlMega]

wrong and wrong. and finally wrong.

[ex-powderbroker]

The only shit that is spreading is uniformed and wrong bullshit.

"look at ISRaEL!!"

[MultiVerse]

Sweden was and is the right call.

You should follow their lead. 75% of the adult population in Sweden is vaccinated. That's a higher percentage of the population than the U.S. and higher than most countries in Europe.

[Core Shot]

Wrong

Iceland, one of the first nations in the world to lift all COVID restrictions for vaccinated tourists, on Friday announced new curbs following a spate of infections.

At the end of June, Iceland lifted rules around social distancing, mask-wearing, limits on public gatherings and the opening hours of bars and restaurants after introducing virus restrictions in March last year.

Starting from midnight on Sunday until August 13, public gatherings will be restricted to 200, the one-metre social distancing rule will be reimposed and bars and restaurants will have to close at 11:00 pm.

Swimming pools and indoor sports facilities can only operate to 75 percent of capacity and masks will be mandatory indoors.

Although over 85 percent of the population above 16 have received two vaccine doses, Iceland has seen infections spurt with 355 new cases since July 12.

The majority of cases are due to the Delta variant, which was first detected in India.

[highangle]

[skaredshtles]

I’d love to see your math on how you arrived at 99% efficacy for previous infection based on the available data. Please tell! I think there’s another Nobel Prize here for the Ron Johnson efficacy formula!

To summarize the positions Ron is taking here, the vaccine is not effective, previous infection is approx 6x more effective than vaccination, yet previous infection is 99% effective! Ron discovered new math everyone!

To your second point, umm, the vaccines still have wayyy lower rates of transmission and are effective. The lowest reporting has still shown the vaccine is 39% effective at infection and much much higher than that for severe cases. Again, let’s show some sources for the Nobel committee here, just how did you arrive at the conclusion that transmission rates are not lower in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated populations?

Plz ignore the dum dums. Plz?

[skaredshtles]

Anyone capable of writing his own posts but genuinely that bad at basic logic and math must be as rare as a ripe huckleberry wrapped in a unicorn turd.

The guy's faking. Probably a sock puppet.

I told everybody MONTHS ago that dum dum was a bot.

[Kinnikinnick]

That first link is a real hoot! You’re comparing all Covid cases to how kids ages 5-17 fared against the virus… arguably the ones who the best response to viruses against everyone else…. And the chance of dying is still less than that of going canoeing for anyone 25 and under (your article states Covid deaths are ~ 10/100,000 for people 25&under)

but you’re right; everyone needs to take this vaccine so we can get back to normal and have everyone wear masks in social settings again.

You still cant even do the math.


YOU and those continuing to spread it are causing the going back to masks, assholes.


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[Dexter Rutecki]

You should follow their lead. 75% of the adult population in Sweden is vaccinated. That's a higher percentage of the population than the U.S. and higher than most countries in Europe.

He was probably talking about their initial response where they tried what Trumper proposed--doing nothing and seeing how it went. They reversed course when it became clear that that would lead to disaster--thank god for them Delta wasn't around.

Glanced through the rest of what he posted and of course it's uninformed garbage--I assume it's what Tucker, DeSantis, and those types push trying to gin up the base.

[dunfree]

Sweden was and is the right call.

more deaths and more economic pain? You really are a selfish cunt.

[The AD]

Do you really think that if we had 100% vax status ANYONE would still have to wear a mask? That's the whole point--everyone gets vaxed so we can be done with this, you ignorant, selfish fucks. This isn't tough--there's no fucking conspiracy of epidemiologists to get you to wear masks because...they don't like how the bottom part of your face looks.

This was awesome. Nice work, Dexter!

[Dexter Rutecki]

You still cant even do the math.


YOU and those continuing to spread it are causing the going back to masks, assholes.


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Yup, and it's time to prevent the dumbfucks from interacting with the rest of us. No work, school, entertainment, or any other kind of interaction (at least indoors). And somehow, along with everything else they don't get, they can't figure out why everyone hates them.

[Dexter Rutecki]

This was awesome. Nice work, Dexter!

Thanks, I guess, but it's just a product of frustration. If the unvaxed only affected the unvaxed (putting aside the issue of their children) I really wouldn't care, but it's like they're trying to fuck this up for all of us.

Gotta give credit to some of you trying to fight the good fight in this thread, but I've posted like three times and find it exhausting (of course have already seen all the right wing nonsense elsewhere).

[Mofro261]

The only shit that is spreading is uniformed and wrong bullshit.

"look at ISRaEL!!"

Here's what ISRaEL sez about spreading among those vaccinated, and then infected:

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/310490

A new investigation by Israel's Health Ministry showed that most people who were vaccinated and later contracted COVID-19 did not infect anyone else, Mako reported.

The investigation showed that vaccinated individuals who attended cultural shows, event halls, restaurants, and gyms while positive for coronavirus did not cause widespread infection: 80% of those vaccinated did not infect anyone else who was present at those locations. Another 10% of vaccinated individuals infected one other person, while 3% infected two or three other people. Information on the remaining 7% was not known, the Ministry added.

[ron johnson]

I’d love to see your math on how you arrived at 99% efficacy for previous infection based on the available data. Please tell! I think there’s another Nobel Prize here for the Ron Johnson efficacy formula!

To summarize the positions Ron is taking here, the vaccine is not effective, previous infection is approx 6x more effective than vaccination, yet previous infection is 99% effective! Ron discovered new math everyone!

https://medicine.missouri.edu/news/s...severe-illness

https://ehrn.org/articles/covid-19-t...e-reinfections

To your second point, umm, the vaccines still have wayyy lower rates of transmission and are effective. The lowest reporting has still shown the vaccine is 39% effective at infection and much much higher than that for severe cases. Again, let’s show some sources for the Nobel committee here, just how did you arrive at the conclusion that transmission rates are not lower in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated populations?

Where have I said that transmission rates aren't lower in the vaccinated?

[ron johnson]

Something that is also driving me crazy at work is that duh "individualists" worshiping at the altar of Ayn fucking Rand, when they actually get sick enough from SARS CoV2 for hospitalization, fully expect to be treated (as they should be and are) and subsequently inevitably use up tremendous resources.

And yes, it can be a zero sum game in a sense as some cancer patient with non-COVID19 sepsis who cannot get an ICU bed because they're all filled up with dumbfuckistan freedumbz lozers can die unnecessarily.

Not to mention the costs. The interventions ain't cheap, as you can imagine. Tocilizumab, remdesivir, round-the-clock-nursing and monitoring, you name it, it tallies up amazingly. Stupid shits don't care whether it's paid by insurance or Medicaid (which an increasing number of younger vax- and facemask-deniers are relying on, at least IME) but we all pay.

We all pay societally. Ironic for the Rand fucking Paul "don't socialize me bro" crowd. Joke is on us all.

Not to mention the burnout of hospital staff, including highly trained and motivated critical care nursing.

So yeah, fuck you ronjon and fuck you Core Shit. Really, go fuck yourselves with a sharpened 2x4.

Actually, in the exceedingly rare case that I require hospitalization, I expect to pay for it. If the hospitals are full, then too bad for me.

[ron johnson]

See the climate change thread. It is about throwing as much disinformation as possible. It always comes full circle and they'll start over with the same lies and deceit. Engaging plays into their hand.

The end game is the destruction of America as a free and Democratic country.

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This is the moron complaining about how crazy climate change is making the weather in Iowa when the data shows the opposite to be the case.

[MultiVerse]

lol @ "Where have I said that transmission rates aren't lower in the vaccinated?" Looking forward to reading about how "less likely to get Covid" is unrelated to transmission rates:

I like how you ignore the fact that the vaccinated are wayyy less likely to get Covid than the unvaccinated too.

This does not appear to be the case long term based on the data coming out of Israel.

[bagtagley]

Gotta give credit to some of you trying to fight the good fight in this thread, but I've posted like three times and find it exhausting (of course have already seen all the right wing nonsense elsewhere).

Responding to trolls isn’t the good fight, it makes a good thread exhausting to follow.

[rod9301]

No. No I don’t

Check Iceland or Israel.

This delta spread is largely breakout among the vaxed.

Vax ain’t working for muh freedumb
It might prevent deaths and hospitalization

This shit keeps spreading.

Sweden was and is the right call.

Is it possible to be so uninformed ?

Sweden had cases and deaths than the neighboring Scandinavian countries, had no lockdown, but their economy suffered as much or more.


So no, Sweden made a big mistake, and they acknowledged it.

Please research before you post.

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