dwr. Best bang for the dollar????

[meter-man]

The most important part of applying DWR is to make sure your outerwear is really really clean before you apply. I don't know which DWR is best, but if you don't prepare the garment by cleaning sufficiently, the product you use won't matter very much. I didn't really know this until a year or so ago, and I don't think it's widely known. Anyway...

https://gearpatrol.com/2019/04/04/ho...f-your-jacket/

[swissiphic]

The most important part of applying DWR is to make sure your outerwear is really really clean before you apply.

Had a discussion with a big brand outerwear gear designer and amongst all the other awesome geeky tech knowledge he imparted was the fact that dawn ultra free and gentle dish soap (they stuff used to wash birds free of oil after tanker spills in the ocean) is the absolute best at washing outterwear with. No additives that even the most benign of regular laundry detergents have that can cling to fabrics. Hot side of warm for water wash temp and multi rinse the hell out of it.

[XXX-er]

The most important part of applying DWR is to make sure your outerwear is really really clean before you apply. I don't know which DWR is best, but if you don't prepare the garment by cleaning sufficiently, the product you use won't matter very much. I didn't really know this until a year or so ago, and I don't think it's widely known. Anyway...

https://gearpatrol.com/2019/04/04/ho...f-your-jacket/

I just use powdered detergent then I put it thru a second time in JUST water to wash out the detergent

[californiagrown]

Bumping an old thread.

Where are we these days with DWR? Anything new under the sun?

also

Wondering if there's a product that's super durable and not necessarily breathable...my thinking is this: the areas of my jacket that always seem to lose DWR really fast, like after a week of coastal storm weather ski touring, don't need breathability, just DWRness. The tops of the shoulders, upper back, neck and elbows, cuffs of arms. There's no breathing of fabric happening with a soggy pack on back at the contact points, but sure would be great if the face fabric of jacket doesn't turn into a soggy sponge in those locations.

Thoughts/opinions?

Orage's JP auclair jacket used to have rubberized material on the shoulders and upper back where your pack rubs away the DWR and you dont need the jacket to breath. I would love to see that application used more.

[swissiphic]

Orage's JP auclair jacket used to have rubberized material on the shoulders and upper back where your pack rubs away the DWR and you dont need the jacket to breath. I would love to see that application used more.

Exactly!

And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.

[skizix]

In my experience, Patagonia uses long lasting dwr.

You've said this twice now (so I do believe it is your belief).

I've had tons of Patagonia dwr'd stuff. And while it is definitely good, my experience is that Arcteryx dwr lasts far longer (for whatever reason). I generally can't stomach arcteryx pricing, so only get their stuff when I can find a killer deal (including new Sabre pants for this coming season, woohoo!). But their dwr's durability seems unparalleled, IME (get what you pay for I suppose, but come fkn on, arcteryx and stio...retail pricing is flat-out obnoxious!).

[AK47bp]

Exactly!

And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.

Same with pants. 100% Waterproof thighs and ass is all I need if I have good venting.


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[GeezerSteve]

Yeah, DIY DWR will not stick to anything more than a few days on other than a very clean garment. And yeah, Dawn dish soap -- not too much followed by 3 cold rinses -- works as well or better than expensive tech wash.

303 Fabric Guard lightly sprayed on clean dry garment, followed by air dry then toss in dryer on medium low, remains my DIY DWR treatment. I haven't found anything better.

Backpack shoulder straps, chair lifts and brushy approaches quickly abrade DWR. AFAIK, there's no way to avoid that.

Using urethane-coated fabric on shoulders and cape was pretty common 25-30 years ago, and has limitations, i.e., condensation forms and drips down your back and chest. There is no magic bullet. All shell fabrics have limitations. Notwithstanding Gore's marketing claims, GTX is not waterproof after a season of hard use, but for many applications it's better than alternatives.

[swissiphic]

Using urethane-coated fabric on shoulders and cape was pretty common 25-30 years ago, and has limitations, i.e., condensation forms and drips down your back and chest. There is no magic bullet. All shell fabrics have limitations. Notwithstanding Gore's marketing claims, GTX is not waterproof after a season of hard use, but for many applications it's better than alternatives.

An advantage to using a permanent self applied DWR would be that a user could outline the exact contact patch of pack straps and pressure contact area of the upper backpack, thereby reducing the footprint of permanently non breathable material (where the most condensation would occur) and mitigating at least some of the extreme effects of condensation you note above.

In any case, I presented a hypothesis of a potential structural mitigation of the condensation effect.

"And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.

I did a bit of internet research and found a material which MAY provide the desirable design features. I'm sure there's more optimum stuff out there but...for the sake of a visual presentation:



Suspend your garment fabric above your body with grass stabilizing plastic. Cut to shape of upper body shoulder girdle, heat in a hot box/oven to soften material slightly, and drape over body and step outside into some cool autumn air and let the drape shape take hold.

Testing will commence once said material is acquired.

[XXX-er]

Just cut up a buncha milk crates, zip tie pieces together and Viola ... a well ventilated suit of armor

[Falcon3]

Just cut up a buncha milk crates, zip tie pieces together and Viola ... a well ventilated suit of armor

I really want to see this on the slopes this winter.

[cmcrawfo]

Just cut up a buncha milk crates, zip tie pieces together and Viola ... a well ventilated suit of armor

swissiphic has a 1001 uses for milk crates in the B/C

[swissiphic]

I really want to see this on the slopes this winter.

Dairylanders. It'll be a small step from ski boots to the shoulder girdle.

[GeezerSteve]

[AK47bp]

An advantage to using a permanent self applied DWR would be that a user could outline the exact contact patch of pack straps and pressure contact area of the upper backpack, thereby reducing the footprint of permanently non breathable material (where the most condensation would occur) and mitigating at least some of the extreme effects of condensation you note above.

In any case, I presented a hypothesis of a potential structural mitigation of the condensation effect.

"And putting some thought into it...if that rubberized non breathable area around the shoulder girdle/upper back was suspended above the body by a cm or two to allow airflow...a guy wouldn't get the sweat soak from fabric of shirt contacting the jacket material. The dreamworks end product would use inflatable tubes with holes formed into the rubberized plastic every few cms to allow air to pump through with the natural accordianing action of rest of the jackets material. The girdle could be designed to suspend the front of jacket off the chest as well, allowing lots of fresh air to fill the vacant space through the open pit zips, while the front of jacket is still zipped closed. You know, for those heavy warm storm/sleety days where you want full protection but max outside air cooling.

I did a bit of internet research and found a material which MAY provide the desirable design features. I'm sure there's more optimum stuff out there but...for the sake of a visual presentation:



Suspend your garment fabric above your body with grass stabilizing plastic. Cut to shape of upper body shoulder girdle, heat in a hot box/oven to soften material slightly, and drape over body and step outside into some cool autumn air and let the drape shape take hold.

Testing will commence once said material is acquired.

Sounds really comfortable


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[swissiphic]

I think I found a better material. Inherently supple. Cheap. And it keeps wet areas clean and safe. #winning.



[QUOTE=GeezerSteve;5771171] [QUOTE]

[chaka]

I think you guys are headed towards SteepTech2.0.... remember those shoulder pads?

[AK47bp]

[QUOTE=swissiphic;5771757]I think I found a better material. Inherently supple. Cheap. And it keeps wet areas clean and safe. #winning.



[QUOTE=GeezerSteve;5771171] Bonus points if it smells of urinal cakes


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[hafjell]

https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/w...t-3-down-ep-64

Longwinded but an interesting discussion of cleaning (down) at 36:55 which will have some application here.

[AK47bp]

https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/w...t-3-down-ep-64

Longwinded but an interesting discussion of cleaning (down) at 36:55 which will have some application here.

Thanks. Interesting listen.


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[NBABUCKS1]

it's been 4 years - any new DIY DWR to hit the market?

[2FUNKY]

it's been 4 years - any new DIY DWR to hit the market?

303 seems to still be the pinnacle.


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[L8APX]

Buckle up because C6 DWR is going to be banned in 2024-2025 in CA, NY and a few other states will follow. It will be replaced with C0 DWR which lasts around 15-20 killer washes (manufacturers test to assess life of the initial treatment) compared to 80-100 for C6 and 200 ish washes of banned in 2016 C8 finish. On top of that, aftermarket C6 DWR treatments will be banned starting in WA AND Maine. This is all following the ban of PFAS FC ski waxes. Fun stuff.

[Cocximus]

Just ban pickups already.

[kootenayskier]

“The conclusions of this study also suggest that substituting a short-chain fluorinated treatment with a non- fluorinated DWR treatment, whose performance does not provide sufficiently long lasting water repellency in field use conditions, will result in increased adverse environmental and health effects”.

https://www.gore-tex.com/sites/defau...t-151215-2.pdf

The intention presumably is that putting restrictions in place will drive the research and innovation necessary to find a functional and environmentally tolerable solution. We just have to endure poor performance and increased impacts till then.