Sidearms. What's on your belt?

[GeezerSteve]

Then Steve replied with crime gun murder stats.

At least I provided some stats. BSR echoed a common myth with zero support. AFAIK, there is no complete data, and that's for several reasons, e.g., there is a tradition of burying suicide data and the NRA has successfully lobbied against the federal government compiling meaningful data re firearm deaths.

If anyone has data to support the myth that .22 rounds kill more American civilians than any other caliber, let's see it.

The myth may be a carryover from the 1960s and 1970s, when so-called "Saturday night special" .22 revolvers were involved in many urban shootings and/or the use of .22LR in mob hits.

Things changed after the 1970s. Since 1980, center fire handguns (semi-autos and revolvers) have become far more popular than .22 handguns. My quick research suggests that the most popular handguns (per sales data) in the past 20 years are chambered for 9mm, .40, .380 or .38 special. .22 handguns are way down the list. The firearm assault data in the links I posted correlate closely with popularity by sales. That is, for the past decade or more, most firearm assaults (fatal and non-fatal) are by 9mm, .40, .380 or .38 special, and only a small fraction are by .22. It makes sense that most fatal shootings are by the most plentiful handguns. It's also logical to surmise that, more likely than not, the guns used for suicides also correlate with popularity (per sales) because people committing suicide by gun are likely to reach for the handgun to which they have access. And if a guy who knows anything about firearms wants to off himself, he will pick something with more firepower than a .22LR.

Again, I've never seen any support for the commonly asserted myth that .22 rounds cause more deaths than any other caliber. If there's credible data to support that myth, let's see it.

[Conundrum]

And that is why my Gunfighters Kenai holster that Leavenworth Skier sold me fits so nice with my .44 on my chest.

[lifelinksplit]

And that is why my Gunfighters Kenai holster that Leavenworth Skier sold me fits so nice with my .44 on my chest.

Shit I need to grab one. I forgot he offered to help with a holster solution(usually just throw shitty holster on hip belt). Reminds me of the time some guy felt the need to harass my wife near a trailhead (after a 4 day trip) on the beartooths. She had bear spray on chest holster and gun on hip(we alternate sometimes with who carries on backpacking trips). Being near a trailhead I was a bit ahead of her. Apparently some guy feels the need to(unprovoked) lay into her about her choice to carry a gun in arguably one of the thickest grizzly populations in lower 48. She smiled and walked away but I wonder whether leather loafer wearing guy would've felt so inclined if he wasnt patronizing a 5ft nothing female...

[SumJongGuy]

At least I provided some stats. BSR echoed a common myth with zero support. AFAIK, there is no complete data, and that's for several reasons, e.g., there is a tradition of burying suicide data and the NRA has successfully lobbied against the federal government compiling meaningful data re firearm deaths.

If anyone has data to support the myth that .22 rounds kill more American civilians than any other caliber, let's see it.

The myth may be a carryover from the 1960s and 1970s, when so-called "Saturday night special" .22 revolvers were involved in many urban shootings and/or the use of .22LR in mob hits.

Things changed after the 1970s. Since 1980, center fire handguns (semi-autos and revolvers) have become far more popular than .22 handguns. My quick research suggests that the most popular handguns (per sales data) in the past 20 years are chambered for 9mm, .40, .380 or .38 special. .22 handguns are way down the list. The firearm assault data in the links I posted correlate closely with popularity by sales. That is, for the past decade or more, most firearm assaults (fatal and non-fatal) are by 9mm, .40, .380 or .38 special, and only a small fraction are by .22. It makes sense that most fatal shootings are by the most plentiful handguns. It's also logical to surmise that, more likely than not, the guns used for suicides also correlate with popularity (per sales) because people committing suicide by gun are likely to reach for the handgun to which they have access. And if a guy who knows anything about firearms wants to off himself, he will pick something with more firepower than a .22LR.

Again, I've never seen any support for the commonly asserted myth that .22 rounds cause more deaths than any other caliber. If there's credible data to support that myth, let's see it.

Anecdotally, of the dozen or so people I know who off'd themselves with a gun, NONE used a 22. I certainly would go bigger as I already posted, Go big or wake up in the hospital an invalid.. I'd think that accidental shootings would be high with 22s. When we are talking about rifles, I bet there are as many 22s in circulation as anything else.. cheap, non gun people get them as a step up from the red rider. I bet someone who works at Dicks or Walmart could chime in on how many 22s they sell versus 30 odd 6's. Those are probably the two top selling rifle calibers. Maybe not though. As for handguns, ya 22's aren't that common anymore.

[plugboots]

Anecdotally, of the dozen or so people I know who off'd themselves

Makes sense.

[GeezerSteve]

When we are talking about rifles, I bet there are as many 22s in circulation as anything else.

Sure, plinkers are very popular, but AFAICT they are seldom used to murder people or to commit suicide. Recall that this discussion started with the dubious claim that ".22 kill more [civilian] Americans than any other caliber," a claim which has no factual support, but for whatever reason persists as a myth.

It's completely fucked up that the NRA has successfully suppressed amassing statistics re gun deaths.