2016 PRAXIS info, mounting and resource guide

[Island Bay]

Concept

Very possibly, yes.

[grinch]

I have my 187's on the dimple and I had 177 mounted -1.5(hole conflict lead me there) and I find the 177 with the more rearward mount busted chop amazing. Flawless actually. My 187 on the dimple are still good at that but I think I preferred them back a bit. They're still EZ to pivot in tight trees or closer to the trees when searching back a bit. I'm considering remounting my 187's -1
Like others have said, give it some time. The only time I give them up is when it's too scraped off getting back to the lift, then it gets tiring trying to get them on edge all the time, so I reach for my gpo. Any kind of soft they are "the@ ski. I'd love to have a 118-120 ish similar ski to fit between my gpo and protest but not sure I really need it. Even in revy most of the time it's the gpo asmy daily driver. Great west hill ski daily driver. Does everything quite well.

[adrenalated]

OK, so the Protest is a great ski. So is the GPO. And the Freeride.

But anyone that honestly thinks they are great crud skis seriously needs to get on some ON3Ps. The level of dampness and stability through choppy snow is incredible. The Billy Goat is absolutely more stable through chop and crud than the GPO. Same with Wrenegade vs. Freeride. Or Cease & Desist vs Protest. It all has to do with the layup. The 100% bamboo and heavier construction of the ON3P stuff really makes a difference.

That's not to slag the Praxis layup at all though. The Praxis stuff is lighter, more poppy, and more playful. Personally I'm liking the ON3P feel inbounds and the Praxis feel in the backcountry, but depending on your preferences, Praxis might suit you better everywhere.

All I'm saying is that all the people saying "OMG Protest is amazing in crud!" really need to try a pair of Billy Goats.

[neck beard]

OK, so the Protest is a great ski. So is the GPO. And the Freeride.

But anyone that honestly thinks they are great crud skis seriously needs to get on some ON3Ps. The level of dampness and stability through choppy snow is incredible. The Billy Goat is absolutely more stable through chop and crud than the GPO. Same with Wrenegade vs. Freeride. Or Cease & Desist vs Protest. It all has to do with the layup. The 100% bamboo and heavier construction of the ON3P stuff really makes a difference.

That's not to slag the Praxis layup at all though. The Praxis stuff is lighter, more poppy, and more playful. Personally I'm liking the ON3P feel inbounds and the Praxis feel in the backcountry, but depending on your preferences, Praxis might suit you better everywhere.

All I'm saying is that all the people saying "OMG Protest is amazing in crud!" really need to try a pair of Billy Goats.

A few time in the last year I have thought that some Praxis skis would be better of they were damper and heavier. I like what they are, but even in stiff full glass layup, the ones I have skied are not crushers of shit snow.

[grinch]

Haha that was good. Passion. I like it. I never claimed the gpo to be a crud buster just really versatile. I did find the protest to be a crud buster though, mounted at -1.5 but still playful everywhere. Protest just has a massive sweet spot from huge turn to small slarve and great float. I think the large tip taper keeps it from being deflected in 3d snow. Always thought a billy goat would fit in nice between the gpo and protest but never tried any on3p.....yet. Heavier generally equals dampness

[jmars]

Very possibly, yes.

Yes, yes!! I'm officially a Concept fanboy

[hoarhey]

Hey fellow Praxis owners, I have a question that you may be able to help me out with.

I have the 187 Protest in a Med/Stiff flex with the carbon layup (not full carbon). I had hopes of it skiing really good in not only pow but also chop and crud. However, while it excels in pow I find it super wonky and does not stay locked in a turn and gets deflected easily when not in perfect pow. So, I took off the Duke and am planning on mounting a tech binder but am wondering about mount point.

Has anyone moved back from the dimple and liked how they rode? I like to carve skis more than butter/smear and like to drive through chop/crud. Now with the tech binding this will be for good cold snow touring but wondering if I should still think about moving back the mount point.

Any opinions?

I think putting a tech binder is a move in the right direction.
I like Protests only for non-resort snow (backcountry skiing)

With vertical st10's and mercuries/titans, I found the ramp angle enough that my 177's are quick turners at -1 cm.
If I were to play with the mount again, I'd likely put in a 6 mm shim under the toe.

So, for me to you, if you are using same boots and changing from dukes to a tech binding, keep in mind the change in ramp angle.

I think -1 wouldn't be a problem for you.

and if you feel too far forward, consider putting in a toe shim...

[Island Bay]

OK, so the Protest is a great ski. So is the GPO. And the Freeride.

But anyone that honestly thinks they are great crud skis seriously needs to get on some ON3Ps. The level of dampness and stability through choppy snow is incredible. The Billy Goat is absolutely more stable through chop and crud than the GPO. Same with Wrenegade vs. Freeride. Or Cease & Desist vs Protest. It all has to do with the layup. The 100% bamboo and heavier construction of the ON3P stuff really makes a difference.

That's not to slag the Praxis layup at all though. The Praxis stuff is lighter, more poppy, and more playful. Personally I'm liking the ON3P feel inbounds and the Praxis feel in the backcountry, but depending on your preferences, Praxis might suit you better everywhere.

All I'm saying is that all the people saying "OMG Protest is amazing in crud!" really need to try a pair of Billy Goats.

Good point, Adrenalated. I have never skied the Billy Goats, but have fondled some (yes, heavy), and I think they might be very similar to my old Kingswood Rocketypes (bamboo core, narrower tip than current model, not a lot of sidecut), which were also excellent crud missiles. But just to be clear, with Protests I feel it's a different sort of crud busting; more like crud floating/skimming, but still hugely capable at high speeds (pathetic Jeremie Heitz wannabe kook).

[riff]

I wasn't inspired with 187 carbons mounted on the dimple, so after some pondering I went -2; what a difference. I'm used to skiing around little things like a 2cm mount difference, but this ski is way better (for me) a bit back. So fun. Two days of skiing in the rain have confirmed that it's a great ride for the PNW variable conditions dance. I'm stoked I hung on to them. Now I just have to cover the tattoo circus graphics with something......

[Muggydude]

Very interesting ^^ curious who else has experience with the protest in the same length at different mount points

[N1CK.]

Now I just have to cover the tattoo circus graphics with something......

I suggest about 10" of fresh snow.

[SupreChicken]

The 196 was way better a touch back of recommended for me. I'm sure the 187 and 192 are similar.

My favorite ski is still the billy goat and that ski has a solid directional bias. If you're jibby, maybe you like the dimple. But for me (and most of the other peeps in this thread it seems) -mostly directional skiers, going back on a deep snow ski makes sense.

I have also been waxing the route of praxis for out of bounds and ON3P in bounds.

The billy goat's capability in 3d snow was probably the biggest reason I sold my protests. I hunted for a while for a deep day ride, and I still have yet to sink the goat in untracked. I also have yet to ski something I like more in cut up pow or heavy crud.

Just another $0.02.

[kneedropper]

I just mounted the 192 protests on the line with guardians. Perfect. I had 187 on the line with the og dukes and experienced tip dive. They have teles on them now at-1 and are perfect. I think the stack height messed with the 187 mount. I'm becoming more of a neutral skier but still like to lean over the front when it gets rough. Had GPO at -2 and probably would have like them at -1 better. New to the Bibby and like it on the line although I can't get used to how centered they look.

[Shu Shu]

That's not to slag the Praxis layup at all though. The Praxis stuff is lighter, more poppy, and more playful. Personally I'm liking the ON3P feel inbounds and the Praxis feel in the backcountry, but depending on your preferences, Praxis might suit you better everywhere.

All I'm saying is that all the people saying "OMG Protest is amazing in crud!" really need to try a pair of Billy Goats.

I have Praxis quiver, and while I don't own any ON3P skis, I did spend some time on my brothers OG 110mm waisted Jeffrey in a 186. Holy shit is that a fun ski. My brother is a good skier, but I still vividly remember him maching through 8" of cut up crud on the Jeffreys in a way I've never seen him ski. Top to bottom West bowl laps for those familiar with WB. I skied the same lines as him on my carbon GPOs and while I was keeping up the approach needed to be much more slice and pop as opposed to plow and straight line.

I often wonder what some of the Praxis designs would feel like with Bamboo in the core instead of maple?

[SupreChicken]

I have Praxis quiver,

I often wonder what some of the Praxis designs would feel like with Bamboo in the core instead of maple?

Me too, dude. But you're winning with either.

[undertow2]

Me too, dude. But you're winning with either.

Very well said SC and could not agree with this more...! You cannot pry either my 191 Billy or 192 GPO from my dead hands... Both great skis and both have a niche for me and absolutely love both skis...

[SeatownSlackey]

The 196 was way better a touch back of recommended for me. .

Just giving back to this thread since it helped me. Mounted my 196s ~1 cm back 106.7cm (94") straight pull. my dimple was more like 105.5cm from the tip. Feels spot on to me but many other have commented there is a fairly wide sweet spot. Just seems to me more in the dimple to -2/3cm window.

im 6'1" and 230 not a lick of tip dive. Almost as nimble as my OG 192 L 138s but o lordy does the protest traverse/cat track so many million times better than the 138.

do need to try the newer Billy Goats. Didn't particularly care for the 1st or 2nd gen pair i tried many moons ago but everyone sings their praises once they got the RES redesign.

[Shu Shu]

Very well said SC and could not agree with this more...! You cannot pry either my 191 Billy or 192 GPO from my dead hands... Both great skis and both have a niche for me and absolutely love both skis...

I hear you both

Undertow- psyched for you to post up a review of your Backcountry's

[undertow2]

I hear you both

Undertow- psyched for you to post up a review of your Backcountry's

Have 7 days on them so far and absolutely love them... I am leaving for Bach on Tuesday and since there is no big dumps forecasted both the GPOs and BCs will be in my bag... I will post as soon as I get back and it looks like I will get to use them in pretty much all conditions...

[papatroller]

Thanks everyone who responded to my 187 Protest predicament.

I am going to keep em, put some techs on em and ski em bc and maybe for those playful inbound pow days. I am also going to go back 1 or 2 with the mount and I always shim dynafit so thanks for recognizing that variable.

Looking forward to finding the greatness so many others have found.

[SupreChicken]

Report back. When my gear whoredom peaks, I always daydream about buying another pair.

[danielharro]

thanks for this info! Really helped!

[galibier_numero_un]

A few time in the last year I have thought that some Praxis skis would be better of they were damper and heavier. I like what they are, but even in stiff full glass layup, the ones I have skied are not crushers of shit snow.

I'm beginning to come to this conclusion as well. Always design tradeoffs.

This weekend, I think I'll go to the ON3P demo here in Loveland for a Billy Goat comparo with my 182 Carbon (not UL) GPOs.

The GPOs (or alternatively, a pair of Atomic Automatic (109) may be repurposed for touring. Heck! I'm fine with Carbon Megawatts in the BC, so in this context, either of those will be slayers.

Cheers,
Thom

[eskido]

Hate to be the asshole here but this is bullshit. I've only ever had an issue with my short UL's on resort, otherwise I feel like the right layup, stiffness, and length, they'll do anything amazingly well, I believe it's more how you ski the ski, as opposed to what you expect the ski to ski for you. Don't get me wrong, I understand the sentiment here but why would you want something to blow threw something you can power over and stomp the dogshit out of the otherwise with the perfect amount of flex to pop you right back into the next turn??? Guess it's all personal preference as to getting a ski that skis the way you want it to but I've always felt that Praxis (with the right build) delivers whatever one could ever ask for a ski to do

[Muggydude]

I'd have to agree with eskido. Having skied my ON3P JMOS for years and recently some 186 BGs, while I love the bamboo core and think they are more damp than the Praxis skis, its not by a large amount at all. I have never felt that my 187 glass GPOs don't handle the resort very well and can power through things if I so choose. Once you get into carbon hybrid layup is a different story, but that's more for homogenous so imo.