2016 PRAXIS info, mounting and resource guide

[galibier_numero_un]

Praxis and ON3P have very different business models.

Praxis is focusing on small volume, direct-to-consumer sales and semi-custom construction. ON3P is focusing on a higher volume, retailer-based, non-customizable sales model. Neither one is better nor worse IMO, just different directions and goals. Fortunately, both companies make great skis.

Agreed on all points. Keith and I had an e-mail discussion about the business model. Both he and I have found greater ease and success in our respective businesses with the direct sales model, which may be as much of a personal limitation (speaking for myself) as anything else. There's no right or wrong, but both he and I value the direct customer interaction part of the process.

We've also found that dealers frequently create an extra pricing layer while (in many cases) providing no extra value to the customer. We shouldn't kid ourselves however. Dealing directly with the customer has its costs, and this direct-sales model might best be thought of as "single dealer", in the sense that all of the support time needs to be accounted for.

Cheers,
Thom

[Andeh]

I'd love a pair of touring focused, ~120mm x ~177-182cm skis... basically something for if/when Tahoe ever gets enough snow that my BCs aren't big enough. I've been eyeing a CCR GPO for this, but would be really interested in something designed from the ground up as a touring ski (<8 lbs!).

[hoarhey]

I agreee in general, but much as there are some great resources on Wildsnow, Lou's philosophy leans more toward the lightest possible disposable ski (until it falls apart on him in the middle of a tour ). God help poor Keith for endorsing a full, wraparound edge with the cost of a few extra grams and the benefit of quality and durability.

Lou's entitled to be a gram weenie, but this is contrary to Keith's philosophy of durability, quality and reliability (which I align myself with, BTW). I suppose the flip side of this is that Lou gets coverage, has influence and the comments section is an opportunity for rebuttal. There's also of course Louie, whose values lean more toward the down than the up. So maybe Wildsnow does have its benefits after all

Cheers,
Thom

Thanks for your comment. I've found lou to review skis with some perspective. He has a chart of surface area over weight ratio in which I'm sure the goo would fare well

I will have to measure and calculate.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks for your comment. I've found lou to review skis with some perspective. He has a chart of surface area over weight ratio in which I'm sure the goo would fare well

I will have to measure and calculate.

As I worked my way through this, I realized that not only is there Louie, but also Bob Perlmutter to keep Lou honest, along with the occasional post from Lee Lau. I really like all of Lou's shop geekery, and backcountry stoke. I think that in general, he's a great resource.

He's certainly entitled to his "light at all costs" philosophy, and while his biases are clearly visible, I think he puts excessive pressure on the manufacturers in this direction. It really bugs me to see skis made without wraparound edges and I'll vote with my $$$ on companies like Praxis.

Cheers,
Thom

[jmars]

Any have the BC in a med/stiff lay up? Spoke with Keith on a wifey ski and I'm leaning towards the BC as this will be a soft snow ski for her that will wear a few hats. She skis some stiffer skis so I'm looking to see what you guys think.

Loving that SCUBA graphic

[Muggydude]

Check out the 2015 thread, I think this was discussed a while ago. I've skied the med+ BC and I like that flex and wouldn't have gone stiffer for the BC, and I'm a bigger guy. That's just me though, lot of guys like med/stiff

[SupreChicken]

Re: new ski option. Continued conversation between me and Keith.

Me:
Knowing what I like and the community skiers who are also intrigued, I think the move is to blend the protest wootest and GPO into a 120mm ski rather than tweak the Ullr...at least, that's the ski I'd be more interested in.

Keith:
For some of the new stuff we talked about. I'm going to shoot for proto type custom order run to be done in early January, similar to how we've introduced some new skis in the past.

So January 2016, we may see this 120mm waisted touring friendly option...

[undertow2]

Any have the BC in a med/stiff lay up? Spoke with Keith on a wifey ski and I'm leaning towards the BC as this will be a soft snow ski for her that will wear a few hats. She skis some stiffer skis so I'm looking to see what you guys think.

Loving that SCUBA graphic

jmars, I just ordered a 190 BC std layup in med/stiff for next year so I cannot add a lot at this time... However, I am 6'4" and 205 lbs and in pretty good shape and ski the med/stiff in both my 192 GPOs and 193 MVPs and love the flex... For my size none of the skis are demanding at all and believe Keith has this flex dialed in... With that said I think a med/stiff for a female would be a bit much and if I was buying this ski for my wife it would probably be in a med...

I absolutely love my MVPs and will not get rid of them, but if the BC had been offered in custom std layup from the beginning I would never have ordered the MVPs.. I am so stoked for this ski and think it will be the perfect inbounds resort soft snow ski (aka - what the Gotama use to be)...

[eskido]

Re: new ski option. Continued conversation between me and Keith.

Me:
Knowing what I like and the community skiers who are also intrigued, I think the move is to blend the protest wootest and GPO into a 120mm ski rather than tweak the Ullr...at least, that's the ski I'd be more interested in.

Keith:
For some of the new stuff we talked about. I'm going to shoot for proto type custom order run to be done in early January, similar to how we've introduced some new skis in the past.

So January 2016, we may see this 120mm waisted touring friendly option...

Sweet! Great work!

[undertow2]

Re: new ski option. Continued conversation between me and Keith.

Me:
Knowing what I like and the community skiers who are also intrigued, I think the move is to blend the protest wootest and GPO into a 120mm ski rather than tweak the Ullr...at least, that's the ski I'd be more interested in.

Keith:
For some of the new stuff we talked about. I'm going to shoot for proto type custom order run to be done in early January, similar to how we've introduced some new skis in the past.

So January 2016, we may see this 120mm waisted touring friendly option...

SC, thanks for doing the work on this and love where you are going with it... As stated before I love the GPO as a great quiver of 1 for soft snow, POW (1 to 5"), day after a snow storm and a fattie that does well on the groomers... With that said I would like to own a ski that still charges, but is very loose and slarvy for the deeper days that has a bit more traditional mount...

Muggy got his 192 Protest added so I am sure you can make this happen SC... Plus I need a reason to buy another ski for the Rastaman top sheet...

[jmars]

Thanks guys...maybe a dumb question here but is "medium +" the same as "medium/stiff"? I only own an SND in stiff so I'm looking to gauge on the flex for wifey. Sound like I should stick to the medium but a touch stiffer I would think allow for better resort skiing on the days it has to do double duty

[Muggydude]

Med+ is between medium and med/stiff

[adrenalated]

Thanks guys...maybe a dumb question here but is "medium +" the same as "medium/stiff"? I only own an SND in stiff so I'm looking to gauge on the flex for wifey. Sound like I should stick to the medium but a touch stiffer I would think allow for better resort skiing on the days it has to do double duty

Nope - med+ is halfway between medium and med/stiff. It is indeed a different flex. Barely so, but different. He created it mostly to satisfy the Goldilocks syndrome of a few maggots

[jmars]

Well I just can't be comfy in any standard bed!!

[undertow2]

Well I just can't be comfy in any standard bed!!

I have the SND in stiff as well and for that ski it is the only way to go... The med/stiff is a notch below that with a more even round flex, but still has some beef to the flex... Unless your Misses charges or has the mass to flex a stiffer ski I think in a std layup med is the way to go...

Also, you may have already seen it, but Keith has posted a flex rating chart on Praxis website that will give you an idea as to what he deems stiff, med/stiff and so on with other brands...

Adrenalated - this made me laugh...: "He created it mostly to satisfy the Goldilocks syndrome of a few maggots"

[jmars]

Thanks again....she doesn't ski wimpy skis that's for sure. Talking to Keith about medium plus now..

Here's the SCUBA graphic Keith sent me

[PlayItLeo]

A little non sequitur here - Concepts fucking kill it! Carry on...

[eskido]

A little non sequitur here - Concepts fucking kill it! Carry on...

X2!!!

[Shu Shu]

Adrenalated - this made me laugh...: "He created it mostly to satisfy the Goldilocks syndrome of a few maggots"

Made me laugh too. As an owner of this Medium + flex and the medium flex i can attest that its real, but subtle. I cringe when I think about my emails to Keith about it though......

X2!!!

X3!!! Yes the Concept rules. Coolest ski design going IMO. Takes some serious design chops to come up with and execute on a ski like that. Keith=seriously talented.

[Island Bay]

Thread drift - sort of.

Shu Shu, IIRC you have both the Protest, Concept and GPO, yes? How do they compare, in your view? Does the Concept have a bit of that magic Protest drift/float thanks to its funny side cut?

While salivate at the thought of a 119mm x 182cm Protest, something more along the lines of a GPO/Ullr doesn't get me that excited. Definitely after something that'll give me at least some of the Protest mojo.

Maybe I should just save my pennies and order a Wootest next year - if it is still available then...

[PlayItLeo]

Thread drift - sort of.

Shu Shu, IIRC you have both the Protest, Concept and GPO, yes? How do they compare, in your view? Does the Concept have a bit of that magic Protest drift/float thanks to its funny side cut?

While salivate at the thought of a 119mm x 182cm Protest, something more along the lines of a GPO/Ullr doesn't get me that excited. Definitely after something that'll give me at least some of the Protest mojo.

Maybe I should just save my pennies and order a Wootest next year - if it is still available then...

I haven't skied the protest and only have about 10 spring days on my concepts, but in the corn/slush conditions I've had them out in, the concepts, when skied centered, have felt a lot like my powderboards - super loose, drifty, and FAST. They have that same awesome ability to drift sideways on soft snow without shedding speed. The difference with the concept though is that a shift of pressure forward leads to serious edge hold vs doing the splits.

[Shu Shu]

Thread drift - sort of.

Shu Shu, IIRC you have both the Protest, Concept and GPO, yes? How do they compare, in your view? Does the Concept have a bit of that magic Protest drift/float thanks to its funny side cut?

So yeah, I do own the the Concept GPO and Protest. Here's how I would compare

The Concept is a ski I can't really ever imagine not owning. It just allows for so many approaches to a line. Any amount of accumulation (including scraped off man made snow on the side of trail) allows you to move effortlessly back and forth between long pivoty slarves, carved turns and every variation in between. It doesn't really make sense that it can carve as well as it does. The other thing is I suck at jumping so its really nice to have the extra width under foot, when I launch my styleee straight-airs in the park. I almost never fall.

The Protest...well... I know you don't need any convincing... Its the shit. A drifty, floaty, smeary long turn short turn charging meadow skipping necessity.

There is no question the GPO is the most conventional feeling ride out of the three, and its sits in weird place for me right now. Its a better pow ski than the concept but not as magic the protest. Its a way better mixed conditions ski than the protest, but (for me) not as fun as the concept. That being said its probably the best of the three across a range of conditions and so makes an awesome travel ski; you'll never be undergunned on a pow day unless it's like 10 feet of Japow, and it does well all over the mountain when its lower tide.

Hope Chicken is successful with his 119 Protest. It's just so awesome how open Keith is to trying out all the variations we can dream up. For me it would be a 183 Concept with the dimensions bumped by 5mm all around.

[Muggydude]

Anyone have any pics of the red dye sub base graphic?

[SupreChicken]

Man, it sounds like the new gen concept guys would REALLY like the BPS...

I haven't skied either, but I think the drifty feeling with the same float as the PB, but the ability to avoid doing the splits is what was intended in the BPS design.

Any fanboys of that ski out there?

[hoarhey]

Not a fanboy of the BPS

183 BPS was my first praxis skis.
bought it 2011/2012 (slight reverse sidecut around ski center and compound camber)
This year's 2014/2015 removed slight reverse sidecut around the foot, but kept compound camber

I did NOT like the original BPS at all...sold it after skiing it two days.

Was a lot of ski (felt like a handful), and was not very slarvy.

I haven't skied the concept.

I've skied 183 OG BPS, 177 Protest, 187 Protest, 182 GPO, 175 GPO