Following your passion

[Hugh Conway]

sooooeeeeyyy sappy needs a new truck!

oh, the fat and graft of big construction is why people complain. but, like in aged Japan, construction pays the $ back to the right pockets.

[Adolf Allerbush]

You're right. Let's start the euthanasia program instead! Let's put the DEATH in Death panel! Population grows, infrastructure must keep pace or quality of life drops (traffic, water supply, goddamn bridges falling down, etc). We look at a 30-50 year timeline, so needs aren't immediately apparent.

Modernizing the facilities, generally a good idea. The construction boom from the 50's and 60's is falling apart now.


A lot of other stuff is falling apart, but being identified before catastrophic failure. Everything in CO that was washed out is being replaced in kind, as the federal disaster funds cannot be used for 'improvements' and the roads must be replaced in kind. That means it's going to happen again...

I agree in many ways, FWIW...but it's unreasonable to expect everything to stay in tact after a relatively powerful earthquake hits, which are many of your examples. Still, our focus at spending on military over our own countries infrastructure, just as one example of misguided tax payer funds IMO, is infuriating in many ways. This is major thread drift though...my bad.

[DJSapp]

sooooeeeeyyy sappy needs a new truck!

oh, the fat and graft of big construction is why people complain. but, like in aged Japan, construction pays the $ back to the right pockets.

No, the Japanese don't publicly complain about it, but they're equally dissatisfied. And my truck is just fine; what I need a is bigger house. Maybe you political cunts should do something to stop me, like hire better designers and engineers and close those dreaded loopholes, or stop asking us to build things with an impossible set of restrictions and then get the butthurtz when it costs more.

Adolf: Tokyo gets rocked by earthquakes as powerful as Loma Preita and Northridge almost annually. Tokyo doesn't end up like this. Hell, between 89 and 94, the Caltrans seismic retrofit program actually SAVED a shitload of LA bridges from collapsing (time between LP and Northridge).

[BmillsSkier]

I agree in many ways, FWIW...but it's unreasonable to expect everything to stay in tact after a relatively powerful earthquake hits, which are many of your examples. Still, our focus at spending on military over our own countries infrastructure, just as one example of misguided tax payer funds IMO, is infuriating in many ways. This is major thread drift though...my bad.

If only there were multi billion dollar stimulus programs that could create shovel ready jobs to fix our ageing infrastructure.

I should probably have quoted Hugh's post too since this goes to fat, crap politics, and big waste of construction.

[BmillsSkier]

It's usually around page 7 that all the core bros of the community drop their nonsequitur political thoughts on the thread at hand. Usually goes unnoticed since you know, community and shit.

[creaky fossil]

You're right. Let's start the euthanasia program instead! Let's put the DEATH in Death panel! Population grows, infrastructure must keep pace or quality of life drops (traffic, water supply, goddamn bridges falling down, etc). We look at a 30-50 year timeline, so needs aren't immediately apparent.

Hah. I'm not saying things don't need upkeep or sometimes replacement. I'm talking about the generic mindset of transportation planners and engineers. Bridge building I consider a part of civil engineering. In transportation planning, squander now to ensure future $$ is an operative mindset. Or it was when I worked in a related field, 90-94, and I haven't seen any show of change meanwhile. Civil engineers are who I consider responsible for the actual roadways bridges tunnels, I'm not talking about them when I talk about splurgy wasteful spending.

I don't think of this as political any more than talking about One Wasatch is political, and either way I don't have any dogs in any political hunt. My experience is that road construction is favoritist in awards of public contracts, and it doesn't matter whether a governor is R or D or I or Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Pow4Brains]

I'd like to know where these millions of un-filled jobs are that he is talking about.

There aren't enough skilled tradesman at the moment. The AVERAGE age of a pipefitter in the Denver Metro area is 48. 44 for electricians.

[Hugh Conway]

check out a big power plant sometime - all of the brotherhood will be gray haired.

[Tippster]

Remind me what makes you a good candidate for parenting?

Mainly my passionate focus on my kid-tripping skillz, I guess.

[wooley12]

......outsourced to China, with transatlantic shipping of the metalwork done in China tacked onto the cost, remains cheaper than American metalwork?

Yep. And will continue to do so. I always enjoyed the talks I had about Asian politics and how it was affecting business with my contacts in Honk Kong and Bangkok. If the Chinese contractor needs to drop the price to beat the USA made their Govt will help them do it. And ours oils the deal. Fair Trade and Level Playing field ya know. The Chinese politicos have a job to do and that is to continue to deliver skilled, i.e. higher value, jobs. Results in lots of money for defense, Multimillionaire creation and a strong consumer economy. We're going in the other direction IMO.

so I just shrug and say, "there goes another billion wasted."

Is it "wasted" if we get better a better place and the dollars that are spent are put back into the economy to move around? Lots of tax dollars get wasted.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Adolf: Tokyo gets rocked by earthquakes as powerful as Loma Preita and Northridge almost annually. Tokyo doesn't end up like this. Hell, between 89 and 94, the Caltrans seismic retrofit program actually SAVED a shitload of LA bridges from collapsing (time between LP and Northridge).

For sure...Japan takes earthquake preparedness seriously as opposed to say, portland ore, where half the bridges are predicted to fall when the big one hits. It's not political other than politicians being influenced by whoever has the deepest pockets

[creaky fossil]

Yep. And will continue to do so. I always enjoyed the talks I had about Asian politics and how it was affecting business with my contacts in Honk Kong and Bangkok. If the Chinese contractor needs to drop the price to beat the USA made their Govt will help them do it. And ours oils the deal. Fair Trade and Level Playing field ya know. The Chinese politicos have a job to do and that is to continue to deliver skilled, i.e. higher value, jobs. Results in lots of money for defense, Multimillionaire creation and a strong consumer economy. We're going in the other direction IMO.

I was guessing this may be the case, just because bicycle frames seem to be welded fine in China and Taiwan, and since China's been doing heavy industry as long as the USA and metalwork for, well, millennia longer. The USA is a pre-walking toddler compared to China's great-great-grandfather-holy-shit-he's-still-alive adult, cultural history wise. And that's assuming humans living routinely to about 200.

Is it "wasted" if we get better a better place and the dollars that are spent are put back into the economy to move around? Lots of tax dollars get wasted.

Two levels of analysis. One is the thing itself. The other is where and what and how the thing creates effects elsewhere. I think in econ, they call this macro and micro economics? I'm not an economist.

The shrug at billions wasted is how I cope. I don't get paid to allocate $$ or efforts toward civic problems any more. I learned the shrug when I worked in that field.

For sure...Japan takes earthquake preparedness seriously

Fukushima'n A!

[Art Shirk]

Did someone steal your log in creaky? I hate to tell you this, but you are coming off as cogent and content.

[creaky fossil]

I pm'd it to rideit last night.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Fukushima'n A!

HA! Good point...although I thought we were talking about public sector infrastructure not quasi-private energy companies (e.g., TEPCO).

[Tippster]

AFAIK the earthquake wasn't the problem at Fukushima - the resultant Tsunami was, kinda like New Orleans wasn't nearly destroyed by a hurricane but by the failure of shoddy levees.

[abraham]

Yep on the first bit, but the the comparison seems wrong.

[skifishbum]

kinda funny got into carpenrty cause it seemed like a decent trade then roofin cause it was piece work and every day you earned what you were worth that day, you could work solo, when you wanted, and the labor pool bar sure aint set real high oh and i like to get high
got into bartending cause only 1 side of the bar pays and i liked bars
got into ski teching cause it was better than dealing w/ rentals all day, ya got to use tools to fix shit and it allowed for ample ski time
survived a few departmental house cleanings and gained some consierge/ poolboy and and witherspoonesque barista skills
thought i would be a good troller and fishin guide but really wasn't
and learnt sometimes doin shit that your less than passionate about but good at and are low stress in order to fund and gain the time to enjoy your passions unencumbered is just as good if not better on some level.
i like mike rowe
and turtles

[DBdude]

AFAIK the earthquake wasn't the problem at Fukushima - the resultant Tsunami was, kinda like New Orleans wasn't nearly destroyed by a hurricane but by the failure of shoddy levees.

right, and wave + bad design = disaster

[creaky fossil]

AFAIK the earthquake wasn't the problem at Fukushima - the resultant Tsunami was, kinda like New Orleans wasn't nearly destroyed by a hurricane but by the failure of shoddy levees.

Yep on the first bit, but the the comparison seems wrong.

risk management done right: causal chains analyzed

risk management done wrong: coastal facility, analyze only the direct tremor-induced instability, and ignore that coastal town earthquake often means coastal town fat waves within a certain temporal window, resulting in cumulative impacts. obvious secondary causal chain ignored. maybe Japan's tort litigation doesn't make for paranoid risk managers like Palsgraf did for US risk managers.

[DBdude]

what have you done to the real CF?

[grskier]

Hah. I'm not saying things don't need upkeep or sometimes replacement. I'm talking about the generic mindset of transportation planners and engineers. Bridge building I consider a part of civil engineering. In transportation planning, squander now to ensure future $$ is an operative mindset. Or it was when I worked in a related field, 90-94, and I haven't seen any show of change meanwhile. Civil engineers are who I consider responsible for the actual roadways bridges tunnels, I'm not talking about them when I talk about splurgy wasteful spending.

I don't think of this as political any more than talking about One Wasatch is political, and either way I don't have any dogs in any political hunt. My experience is that road construction is favoritist in awards of public contracts, and it doesn't matter whether a governor is R or D or I or Flying Spaghetti Monster.

There is some move away from that... Level of Service should only be one consideration...

But funding being political... yeah, it literally pays to show that you'll be growing fastest.

[Tippster]

Yep on the first bit, but the the comparison seems wrong.

I was going with there wouldn't have been a tsunami w/o the quake and there wouldn't have been flood levels breaching the levees without the hurricane.

[abraham]

Yeah I understood what you were saying. And I wasn't interested in picking it apart, it just seems like not quite an even comparison.

Or maybe I've been reading spook's blame the oil companies thread too much....

[Meadow Skipper]

kinda funny got into carpenrty cause it seemed like a decent trade then roofin cause it was piece work and every day you earned what you were worth that day, you could work solo, when you wanted, and the labor pool bar sure aint set real high oh and i like to get high
got into bartending cause only 1 side of the bar pays and i liked bars
got into ski teching cause it was better than dealing w/ rentals all day, ya got to use tools to fix shit and it allowed for ample ski time
survived a few departmental house cleanings and gained some consierge/ poolboy and and witherspoonesque barista skills
thought i would be a good troller and fishin guide but really wasn't
and learnt sometimes doin shit that your less than passionate about but good at and are low stress in order to fund and gain the time to enjoy your passions unencumbered is just as good if not better on some level.
i like mike rowe
and turtles

^ A lot of quotable material right there.