Real Estate Crash thread

[Foggy_Goggles]

Seriously. $million per unit? And people wonder why I want to see what is behind door number 2?

It's starting to get wierd around here where it seems like the only multi family that gets approved are the governments own projects.

And I bring up questions like build cost and taxpayer subsidies to low wage employer and I get the roll eyes don't stand in the way of our agenda why are you against progress bullshit.

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[Mazderati]

Called an agent about a property they are representing. The agent would not answer any questions about the property; all information has to go through a buyer's agent. Blame was placed on the recent NAR rulings.

[neckdeep]

I love me some Neckdeep commentary, dude is living it.

The municipal employment thing is, to me, the biggest indicator that the living wage problem isn't really viewed as a problem. I'm the Treasurer of our water and sewer district. All the socially concious second homeowners talk a big game until it's time to write the check. They are in favor of affordable housing, just not in their neighborhood. They are in favor of living wages, just not in their district.

"I think we should add 25% to the labor budget to become a premier employer. This would cost each homeowner about $XXX."

"Uh...I think thats a bit too much", "Oh, I thought you were in favor of living wages, my bad"

At the County level revenues 2023 to 2024 increased from $69million to $107million. And yeah, people bitch about taxes because that's what people do. So we've got the money to giver everyone a giant raise but no, its increase head county and make capital expenditures.

Now I don't pay Town of Winterpark taxes, but 2 snowcats, a couple apartment buildings, always more cops. Gotta fee the monster.

"Homeowners" don't want to pay because increasingly the homeowner is a nimby nonresident investor. They do not want to solve anything. Its a zero sum game for them. Its a fucking feedback loop of greed. My HOA was captured by the nimby STR investors and they don't want cost burdened locals renting the condos so they created different rules to FAVOR the STRs. 3 bedroom condos can only have two adults if owner occupied or LTR; even if owner family occupied, its not allowed to put Grandma in the back bedroom. STR owners, however, are allowed to have 6 adults and as many parking spaces as they want. Almost half the subdivision is STR and its never full. Most units around me are unoccupied most of the time. There's your housing crisis in a nutshell. Occupancy rates don't determine anything when wealthy multi home owners are just looking to park money somewhere.

Mountain towns are ceasing to be organic towns. They are becoming storage facilities for real estate portfolios. Dirt pimps, property managers and investors only have one single agenda: to squeeze your town for every bit of filthy lucre they can get and pay as little local tax as possible.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Crazy. The Teton Valley story is why I dig my heals in hard when challenged with the "it can't happen here" argument.

Being so close to the Front Range Metro creates a bit of a different dynamic in the Upper Fraser River Valley.

Part of what I don't believe/understand is the nightly pricing on the STRs. This morning it was 43 and raining at my house. It's paradise for me but winter hats in June ain't everyone's thing.

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[singlesline]

Honestly, it should really just be a different tax rate on the assessed value.

That's how places like Maui do it. One rate for owner occupied (that goes up a bit for property over $1m). Another rate for long term rentals that is a little higher. A higher rate for non-owner-occupied non-rentals (2nd homes) that's about double the rate you'd pay if you rented it out (this one blows up on properties above $3m), and then finally an even higher rate for short term rentals.

Of course that won't work in CA because of the stupid fucking prop 13. Some of these people with vacation homes that have been in the family for decades are paying nothing in taxes and a flat 6k might be doubling their taxes!

Also, I agree that vacancy might not be quite the right target. STRs aren't vacant...and some rich guy that uses a ski house every weekend in the winter and then gives someone a $$$ furnished summer rental for 3 months seems like they'd be able to get around the vacancy tax and wouldn't really be doing much to help house local workers.

[Mazderati]

My HOA was captured by the nimby STR investors and they don't want cost burdened locals renting the condos so they created different rules to FAVOR the STRs. 3 bedroom condos can only have two adults if owner occupied or LTR; even if owner family occupied, its not allowed to put Grandma in the back bedroom.

What defines an adult? I would assume there are exceptions but that is nutso.



Toothlessness of the NAR settlement in black-and-white. Everything is the same, just don't write it down.

There will continue to be many ways in which buyer brokers could be compensated, including through offers of compensation communicated off MLS — as we have long believed that it is in the interests of the sellers, buyers, and their brokers to make offers of compensation — but using the MLS to communicate offers of compensation would no longer be an option.

https://www.ncrealtors.org/031524-na...ent-factsheet/

[dan_pdx]

The sale of our Spokane pandemic house just closed. We bought at pretty much the Covid market peak and 2 years later, we sold for about 8% more than we paid. That seems crazy to me, but apparently the market still has some legs. We get out basically unscathed with our original down payment plus a few thousand bucks.

I'm going to miss the hell out of cycling farm roads in the Palouse and all my Schweitzer buddies, but it's time to get closer to our folks.

[406]

^^^congrats and impressive

[Ted Striker]

Hey Dan that's awesome!

[chicken feathers]

On that topic in CO some of our congressional reps are moving to different districts where they stand better chances at election. The R campaigns are tossing around concerning language as well despite the candidate’s being transplants themselves.

[Foggy_Goggles]

I could tell you an anecdote about about my friend from Montana who is considering moving back to the mountains of Colorado because real estate is more affordable here and jobs pay more.

It is what it is Liz. You are not gonna be part of any solution. More than anything, that's what pisses people of. The "I'm here, with my money and brains to make it better!" attitude.

Better for you ain't necessarily better for me. People struggle with that. Closed mindeness works both ways. If you chose move somewhere, do so for what it is. Framing the changes that you want as "improvement" is weak sauce and will make you no friends.

[Skistack]

Saw a sticker yesterday- Keep Leadville Shitty.


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[Foggy_Goggles]

Saw a sticker yesterday- Keep Leadville Shitty.


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Pretty much. Keep Grand County Lame

[neckdeep]

J Hole labor shortage gets a lot shorter as the commute gets a lot longer.

Fucking Jackson priorities. Free bus service and swanky bike paths for the millionaires while the basic infrastructure for commuters crumbles away. No worries darling, just an extra 125 miles on the daily commute for the poors.

[dan_pdx]

^^^congrats and impressive

Hey Dan that's awesome!

Thanks guys! Feeling really lucky with how things turned out

[NBABUCKS1]

i get the sentiment neckdeep but it's a state highway. i'm guessing the suits in cheyenne don't give a shit about jackson and in fact get a certain level of pleasure in them squirming a bit. Of course it won't affect the affluent only the poorest in the community.

[teleee]

i get the sentiment neckdeep but it's a state highway. i'm guessing the suits in cheyenne don't give a shit about jackson and in fact get a certain level of pleasure in them squirming a bit. Of course it won't affect the affluent only the poorest in the community.

Yea like I said in the other thread the rest of the state of Wyoming could care less and is mostly likely taking some pleasure in the fact that an area they deem as a bunch of wealthy liberal outsiders have to suffer a little.


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[neufox47]

Any of you locals heard anything about lawyers signing up clients to sue the WYDot?


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[east or bust]

Any of you locals heard anything about lawyers signing up clients to sue the WYDot?


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Nope, and don’t see how that’d ever hold any water.

[fastfred]

Got yet another unsolicited phone to see if I was willing to sell my house so I throe down a dumb numberaa usual she was kind of confused after I said it what da fuck is wrong w people someday some idiots gonna say ok and I'll find myself in a van down by the river

[californiagrown]

Nope, and don’t see how that’d ever hold any water.

It would hold a lot of water if this slide/erosion was a known issue and maintenance was ignored or negligently performed. Like if there were pictures of the slide/erosion in progress, and then a paper trail requesting it be addressed, and then a paper trail at WYDOT showing the staff chose to not address it without first adequately investigating.


the better question is: Do you really want to sue WYDOT for millions of dollars that will either just raise taxes to cover the damages, or will come out of WDOTs already paltry budget. No such thing as an overfunded DOT these days- there is a MASSIVE backlog of infrastructure upgrades on the books everywhere.

[anotherVTskibum]

It would hold a lot of water if this slide/erosion was a known issue and maintenance was ignored or negligently performed. Like if there were pictures of the slide/erosion in progress, and then a paper trail requesting it be addressed, and then a paper trail at WYDOT showing the staff chose to not address it without first adequately investigating.


the better question is: Do you really want to sue WYDOT for millions of dollars that will either just raise taxes to cover the damages, or will come out of WDOTs already paltry budget. No such thing as an overfunded DOT these days- there is a MASSIVE backlog of infrastructure upgrades on the books everywhere.

In other road-related cases, I think courts have generally held that no one person has a tort just because a road they used is no longer open to travel, with possible exceptions for landowners who lose an access route. I have no idea what the law or case law is in Wyoming.

Some of the earlier articles mentioned a fatal motorcycle crash at the site of the failure prior to things fully failing. It seems like that might create a real case for the rider's estate.

[anotherVTskibum]

Back on the real estate front, office buildings have started going for apparent cut-rate prices, and at least some portion of two such buildings in NYC are slated for residential conversion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/12/b...smid=url-share

[AdironRider]

Been looking at places near Jay Peak. I'm not using a real estate agent and selling agents are straight up refusing to work with me, even claiming it is illegal to do so in one instance.

Do agents really think they can keep up that ruse?

[Bunion 2020]

Got yet another unsolicited phone to see if I was willing to sell my house so I throe down a dumb numberaa usual she was kind of confused after I said it what da fuck is wrong w people someday some idiots gonna say ok and I'll find myself in a van down by the river

I have been getting the same thing. Stock answer is, $ 1,000,000.00 walk away after the RE agents get their cut. If someone says yes I can live with that.