Real Estate Crash thread

[AdironRider]

Is a catastrophic event likely to happen? No. But if it does and you "self insure" you can pretty much guarantee to wipe out the vast majority of the average American's net worth. I couldn't imagine making mortgage payments for 30 years then having to carry enough investments to self insure and not be properly fucked if something did happen. Very very few people have the assets and can carry that risk.

A bunch of people gave me the business about health insurance in another thread, but I've seen the benefit, multiple times mind you, of having decent insurance. I happily write that check.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> having decent insurance.

Aye - but there's the rub, isn't it?

[AdironRider]

For a house its not hard and there are no barriers to entry.

Edit: I would say its not hard and no barriers outside of say CA, who has done their best effort to basically make insurance unobtainable.

[XXX-er]

so house insurance sucks ?

Does car insurance suck ?

Does personal insurance also suck and is the bank gona give the small business owner an operating loan without insurance ?

[4matic]

For a house its not hard and there are no barriers to entry.

Edit: I would say its not hard and no barriers outside of say CA, who has done their best effort to basically make insurance unobtainable.

Did Florida make itself uninsurable too?

[dunfree]

Did Florida make itself uninsurable too?

shhhh

[dan_pdx]

Allstate raised our premium from like $1,800 to $4,800 after we made a claim for a burst pipe. USAA is quoting me $2k, so good riddance Allstate. We beat the house: they paid out more in claims than the total amount we paid in premiums

[neufox47]

Yeah. Do they teach risk managers that insurance is a fucking scam from birth to death? Know how I know? Look at all the fucking commercials they run.

By that measure everything that involves profit is a scam and you’ve redefined scam. You might be able to build your own house way cheaper too, then you need even less money. Question is can you suffer a catastrophic loss without insurance and not have it be a life changing financial event? Would you rather “lose” a few thousand dollars a year or risk a catastrophic loss that wipes your savings or forces significant downsizing?

[AdironRider]

Did Florida make itself uninsurable too?

shhhh

Prop 13 in CA limits rate increases to 7%, where FL is capped at almost double that at 13%. That is why you can still get a policy in FL, albeit you have to justifiably pay for it.

But sure, throw them on the list too.

That said, you arguing insurance should be subsidized by the Govt? Fuck that noise. You can pay to insure your beach house yourself.

[Hood26]

so house insurance sucks ?

Does car insurance suck ?

Does personal insurance also suck and is the bank gona give the small business owner an operating loan without insurance ?

Well I dunno about suck because I have had no claims, ever, not home or auto, but I can say it’s getting pretty expensive.

CalCas in the last 3 yrs for home went from $542 to $692 to $1180 for home. Now just this month Auto went from $159 (3 rigs and 2 drivers perfect driving records) to $270 a month.

When I called they blamed all the other claims in the state. When I told them I would need to walk away after 14yrs they said don’t let the door hit you.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Insurance is a mind fuck because it is a game you are trying to lose.

[Core Shot]

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/n...ble-insurance/

[dunfree]

Prop 13 in CA limits rate increases to 7%, where FL is capped at almost double that at 13%. That is why you can still get a policy in FL, albeit you have to justifiably pay for it.

But sure, throw them on the list too.

That said, you arguing insurance should be subsidized by the Govt? Fuck that noise. You can pay to insure your beach house yourself.

so it’s the fault of anti-government 1970s shitheads. Gotcha.

[yeahman]

Health insurance, homeowner insurance, car insurance, life insurance...the list goes on. Ever price long-term care insurance? Sky is the limit. You just never know what awful tragedies might befall you. Be afraid, be very afraid. Buy more insurance!

Imagine if you took all that money you pay for insurance over, say, ten years and instead invested it. You'd probably have enough to cover most calamities.

[skaredshtles]

Health insurance, homeowner insurance, car insurance, life insurance...the list goes on. Ever price long-term care insurance? Sky is the limit. You just never know what awful tragedies might befall you. Be afraid, be very afraid. Buy more insurance!

Imagine if you took all that money you pay for insurance over, say, ten years and instead invested it. You'd probably have enough to cover most calamities.

But almost nobody would do that. And when a calamity came, they would be fucked.

I mean - this is *precisely* why insurance exists.

You can not like it, but... it's one of the prices of living in a modern society.

Just out of curiosity - do YOU self-insure?

[yeahman]

Just out of curiosity - do YOU self-insure?

What, you think I'm fucking CRAZY?! I got insurance up the ass just like the rest of you. We're all being taken for a ride.

Look at all the money these fuckers pour into commercials--big money advertising during NFL games, PGA, NBA, etc. What if all that money they make in profits instead went to payouts? Or lower rates? If we truly NEED insurance to live in modern society, then wouldn't it be in the collective best interest to make it nonprofit? It's not like buying Coke or new cars or any of the other shit that gets advertised all the time.

[skaredshtles]

What, you think I'm fucking CRAZY?! I got insurance up the ass just like the rest of you. We're all being taken for a ride.

So... you first, Cap'n.

[dunfree]

Imagine if you took all that money you pay for insurance over, say, ten years and instead invested it. You'd probably have enough to cover most calamities.

This was roughly the whole HSA/high deductible insurance thing and works best if your risk is tailweighted.

[Conundrum]

You say probably have enough to handle most calamities…have you actually ran your numbers?

My number for policies for my home, auto and umbrella because they also cover liability if I hurt someone else or their property in addition to protecting my own property is $63k in the bank at 8% return after 10 years. Basically I could cover totally one of my three cars, or a major water leak, or part of of the medical bills and car repairs if I hit someone else. But that’s it.

If I do my life, health and disability annual cost at 8% for 10 years, I could get one major surgery (don’t forget the contract discounts insurance provides) or replace less than half of one year’s annual gross income or leave my spouse enough to pay to retire a couple years before social security kicks in.

Results will probably vary.

[muted reborn]

What's annoying on top of simply paying $25k+ a year for insurance for biz and other things, is lazy fucking insurance salesmen. For example, I fill out a renewal for a $12k insurance plan every year for one type of insurance, and the insurance dude gets his assistant to sends a renewal form as a jpeg format. I passively aggressively told him it's super easy to make it a fillable form in Acrobat for customers, make it easy for me please, but no. Guy needs to float by and do the minimum amount of work. I don't know what insurance guys get for selling plans but I hope it's $100 and a kick in the nuts.

Or when you get a renewal and they add a bunch of options on to the renewal, without explaining WTF those options are and that they are in fact optional. It would be great if you could lean on these people as experts who can guide and explain things. I know competent caring insurance guys have to exist - but they don't exist in my small little world.

[Meadow Skipper]

What, you think I'm fucking CRAZY?! I got insurance up the ass just like the rest of you. We're all being taken for a ride.

Look at all the money these fuckers pour into commercials--big money advertising during NFL games, PGA, NBA, etc. What if all that money they make in profits instead went to payouts? Or lower rates? If we truly NEED insurance to live in modern society, then wouldn't it be in the collective best interest to make it nonprofit? It's not like buying Coke or new cars or any of the other shit that gets advertised all the time.

After this, let’s talk about health insurance and that industry.

[XXX-er]

my buddy was selling life insurance for one of the house brands which really sucked so he a became a broker and was able to sell anything depending on the clients needs. He got into focusing on the small business owner so he would sell all the business needs and dental plans for the employees, term insurance to cover the operating line of credit, mutual funds ect so how hard is that i ask ?

he said it was easy just walk in on time look around and ask buddy one question "so how did you ever get into this ?" and the guy will talk all day cuz he is all alone in this office with no one to talk to cuz everyone works for him

not getting insurance sounds about as dumb as defund the police,

[AdironRider]

What's annoying on top of simply paying $25k+ a year for insurance for biz and other things, is lazy fucking insurance salesmen. For example, I fill out a renewal for a $12k insurance plan every year for one type of insurance, and the insurance dude gets his assistant to sends a renewal form as a jpeg format. I passively aggressively told him it's super easy to make it a fillable form in Acrobat for customers, make it easy for me please, but no. Guy needs to float by and do the minimum amount of work. I don't know what insurance guys get for selling plans but I hope it's $100 and a kick in the nuts.

Or when you get a renewal and they add a bunch of options on to the renewal, without explaining WTF those options are and that they are in fact optional. It would be great if you could lean on these people as experts who can guide and explain things. I know competent caring insurance guys have to exist - but they don't exist in my small little world.

I think the salesman gets basically the equivalent of the first 6 months of premiums, give or take. I believe it is on a slightly different payment schedule but runs out after a year or three, then you see them come crawling back around to "reassess your risk" and basically sell you an entirely new policy.

That speaks more to the universal sleaziness of salesmen more than the value of the product though.

[XXX-er]

sounds like you are talking about a " house agent " ^^ so all he/ she sells is one brand of whole life, if you see them coming walk across the street and get a guy who can/ will sell you any term product

[Conundrum]

What's annoying on top of simply paying $25k+ a year for insurance for biz and other things, is lazy fucking insurance salesmen.

Too lazy to find a better one?

They’re out there. That’s about $3-4k agency revenue. If your agent is independent, they’re somewhere between 30-50% overhead. If they’re working for one of the big houses, the agent is getting probably 25% of that $3-4k. The independent is probably limited on company appointments so not many options to present to you. The big house agent doesn’t make enough on the deal ($600-700 after tax) to either interrupt his tee time, put your renewal in front of those bigger premiums ($25k may seem like a lot to you but is under the threshold most brokers with true insurance expertise and market access will care about), or the big shop doesn’t even pay the agent because they have minimum premiums to stay out of there small business units. Plus, insurance companies are assholes to deal with right now so your agent is burnt out-a lot of them are.

My advice if you want to spend the time looking for a new agent is find someone a bit younger who has been at it 3-5 years with some older agents back at the bigger agency (look at their website or ask the agent if they feel they have good mentorship). Those type of folks will still hustle for you, have decent market access, and some experienced people to talk to when things get tricky.