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Thread: Tahoe '23/'24 - Reserve Now For Best Pricing!!!

  1. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Joe View Post
    I know it's the controversial position to take. But I think north Lake Tahoe could use another ski resort. Perhaps something north of 80 to keep people off 89. The last permitted new ski resort in California was Northstar.
    this is spot on. The population in California has approximately doubled in California since northstar was built yet the number of mountains has somehow declined.

    until California eases environmental regulations and allows new resorts to be built, overcrowding will continue to be an issue. I don’t think that will ever happen. Demand is greater than supply.

  2. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKWood View Post
    Vail handing out free accommodation; Maybe they’re not that greedy that greedy after all [emoji57]

    https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/ne...venly-gondola/


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  3. #978

    Heavenly ,be better

    Let me start out by saying, I love skiing HV, especially the Nevada trees.

    A patron at Heavenly was left overnight in the gondola? WTF? They need to do better!

    This comes on the heels of something I witnessed first thing in the morning on Wednesday, January 24th in line at the Stagecoach lift. A group of patrons were bulldozed off the loading ramp by a chair with the bar down. Two more chairs continued to batter one downed skier before the lifties noticed. The older gentleman was hurt and shaken. No Heavenly employees ever attempted to assist the downed skier. It was a bad situation that was made even worse by a Heavenly Ski Patroler. He made a wise ass remark telling the shaken skier to get out of the way, they're holding up the line. It was a total shit show, hugely unprofessional and appalling.

    I'm sure I'll get railed as this is my first post, sorry it's not more positive. I just needed to get it out there. Vail resorts needs to do better.

  4. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by South tahoe skier View Post
    this is spot on. The population in California has approximately doubled in California since northstar was built yet the number of mountains has somehow declined.

    until California eases environmental regulations and allows new resorts to be built, overcrowding will continue to be an issue. I don’t think that will ever happen. Demand is greater than supply.
    Why have the number of ski areas declined? Because running little ski areas like Iron Mountain and Echo Summit is a good way to lose money. It was always a labor of love and nowadays everyone wants to go to the big name resorts.

    Anyone who thinks there will ever be another ski resort in California has their head in the sand. Everyone loves environmental regulations until they get in the way of their particular project.

  5. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreddie Haskell's Sire View Post
    Let me start out by saying, I love skiing HV, especially the Nevada trees.

    A patron at Heavenly was left overnight in the gondola? WTF? They need to do better!

    This comes on the heels of something I witnessed first thing in the morning on Wednesday, January 24th in line at the Stagecoach lift. A group of patrons were bulldozed off the loading ramp by a chair with the bar down. Two more chairs continued to batter one downed skier before the lifties noticed. The older gentleman was hurt and shaken. No Heavenly employees ever attempted to assist the downed skier. It was a bad situation that was made even worse by a Heavenly Ski Patroler. He made a wise ass remark telling the shaken skier to get out of the way, they're holding up the line. It was a total shit show, hugely unprofessional and appalling.

    I'm sure I'll get railed as this is my first post, sorry it's not more positive. I just needed to get it out there. Vail resorts needs to do better.
    Maybe if they had been watching for their chair they would have noticed and got the fuk out of the way? Patroller was right.

  6. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Maybe if they had been watching for their chair they would have noticed and got the fuk out of the way? Patroller was right.
    I've been in that situation--snowboarders behind us grabbed the safety bar to pull themselves forward and pulled the bar down behind us. We were all knocked off the loading area down 3 feet off the ramp. I guarantee you a bunch of people wearing skis aren't going to be able to get out of the way when they notice the bar is down. Even if they could on most chairs there's no place to go. I've also been knocked off the loading area when the group behind us managed to get on the chair before we did as we waited to load. The people on the outside managed to get out of the way but I was in the middle. Lift op just kept the chair running and yelled at me to get out of the way.
    Have you ever been in that situation? I'm guessing you have and the bar hit you in the head. Or were you born stupid?

  7. #982
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    ^^^Like


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  8. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreddie Haskell's Sire View Post
    Let me start out by saying, I love skiing HV, especially the Nevada trees.

    A patron at Heavenly was left overnight in the gondola? WTF? They need to do better!

    This comes on the heels of something I witnessed first thing in the morning on Wednesday, January 24th in line at the Stagecoach lift. A group of patrons were bulldozed off the loading ramp by a chair with the bar down. Two more chairs continued to batter one downed skier before the lifties noticed. The older gentleman was hurt and shaken. No Heavenly employees ever attempted to assist the downed skier. It was a bad situation that was made even worse by a Heavenly Ski Patroler. He made a wise ass remark telling the shaken skier to get out of the way, they're holding up the line. It was a total shit show, hugely unprofessional and appalling.

    I'm sure I'll get railed as this is my first post, sorry it's not more positive. I just needed to get it out there. Vail resorts needs to do better.
    These days, if Heavenly (or any area) is lucky enough to even have someone willing to work there, that's a huge bonus. I will thank every single employee just for existing and I'll thank them even more if they are killing it. As long as the operation does the thing to keep the lifts spinning, I am grateful. Some punter got smashed by a chair trying to unload on Olympic right in front of me an the employee was right on it and helped her. Trying to help someone like that up is like trying to pick up a Giant Pacific Octopus armed with swords and hammers rather than tentacles...except the Octopussies are much more intelligent. The quality of patrons is abysmal these days and it's a wonder there isn't a daily fatality.

    As a whole though, Heavenly is not going to win any outside operations awards. Leaving someone on a chair is a thing that cannot happen, ever.

  9. #984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastside View Post
    As a whole though, Heavenly is not going to win any outside operations awards. Leaving someone on a chair is a thing that cannot happen, ever.
    Except it does.


    ...Frozen was shot at the Sundance Resort in Utah, which is owned by Robert Redford, who founded the Sundance Film Festival. The resort is located in the Wasatch Mountains, where a similar incident occurred in 2004.
    In that real-life incident, three skiers were stranded on a chairlift at a ski resort in Utah. They were stuck for more than nine hours in below-zero temperatures before they were rescued. The incident received widespread media coverage,...
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  10. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Why have the number of ski areas declined? Because running little ski areas like Iron Mountain and Echo Summit is a good way to lose money. It was always a labor of love and nowadays everyone wants to go to the big name resorts.

    Anyone who thinks there will ever be another ski resort in California has their head in the sand. Everyone loves environmental regulations until they get in the way of their particular project.
    I don’t think the major hurdle against new resorts are regulations, which to be fair are excessive in California, but that building a new resort is just not good business. Climate change will drive up operating costing as will the tight post COVID labor market and don’t get me started on employee housing.

    Revelstoke in BC is a good example of what can happen when you try to build a modern resort. They opened in 2007 right before the financial crash. How can you guarantee that the economy will be strong when you finally open the resort and if it’s not you will be stuck with the exact problems that Revelstoke has which is raising capital for improvements to make the resort better. Simply put there are much better investments than a ski resort even if you take out the regulations.

  11. #986
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    To me those are all reasons to build a new resort. Climate change isn't going to end snow or skiing. It is going to give the advantage to resorts with a higher base, or decent, dry methods to get off the base. A new resort would have a huge advantage if they could allocate for employee housing right from the start. And let's face it. Even without regulation hurdles affecting your timeline there is no way to start the process of building a resort now, and still be in the same labor market when it is finished. It just doesn't happen that fast.

    Another thing to consider about climate change is that, snow or not, it is likely to drive populations to the mountains.
    Last edited by powdork; 01-27-2024 at 04:15 PM.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  12. #987
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    I can't imagine a group of big money investors or developers sitting around and spending more than one minute discussing investing in or building a brand new public ski resort in the Sierra.
    Sounds like the kind of suggestion that would turn the promising young upstart out of Harvard into the coffee maker.

  13. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckacali View Post
    I can't imagine a group of big money investors or developers sitting around and spending more than one minute discussing investing in or building a brand new public ski resort in the Sierra.
    Sounds like the kind of suggestion that would turn the promising young upstart out of Harvard into the coffee maker.
    [emoji23] . Instead of talking about building a new resort how about the existing resorts improve their operations. They seem to be really struggling.

  14. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by hercule33 View Post
    I don’t think the major hurdle against new resorts are regulations, which to be fair are excessive in California, but that building a new resort is just not good business. Climate change will drive up operating costing as will the tight post COVID labor market and don’t get me started on employee housing.

    Revelstoke in BC is a good example of what can happen when you try to build a modern resort. They opened in 2007 right before the financial crash. How can you guarantee that the economy will be strong when you finally open the resort and if it’s not you will be stuck with the exact problems that Revelstoke has which is raising capital for improvements to make the resort better. Simply put there are much better investments than a ski resort even if you take out the regulations.
    The obstacle hasn't been regulations per se but the opposition of environmental groups, which, in CA at least are a more powerful interest than skiers. Look what happened with the village at Olympic Valley. It may yet come to pass but if it does I bet Alterra will still regret they did it. And itsn't it ironic that people who want more skiing don't want the village (mainly because it messes up the parking). It's one thing to be prodevelopment or antidevelopment; it's another to be pro development that benefits you and against development that doesn't.

    Independence Lake and Mineral Springs were killed by environmental opposition. Coldstream died as I said above and would have died regardless of what Hewlitt did. And any new ski resort would have to be accessible from some other route than 80/89/267. Any development accessed through Truckee and the town will be on it like stink on shit. We don't need more winter gridlock with no way for people to get to work and school and no access for emergency vehicles. Especially since the development will be outside the town limits and bring no revenue to the town, just headaches.

  15. #990
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    ehhhhh don’t totally leave nuance at the door OG

  16. #991
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    Make Kingvale great!
    again?

  17. #992
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    Tahoe '23/'24 - Reserve Now For Best Pricing!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The obstacle hasn't been regulations per se but the opposition of environmental groups, which, in CA at least are a more powerful interest than skiers. Look what happened with the village at Olympic Valley. It may yet come to pass but if it does I bet Alterra will still regret they did it. And itsn't it ironic that people who want more skiing don't want the village (mainly because it messes up the parking). It's one thing to be prodevelopment or antidevelopment; it's another to be pro development that benefits you and against development that doesn't.

    Independence Lake and Mineral Springs were killed by environmental opposition. Coldstream died as I said above and would have died regardless of what Hewlitt did. And any new ski resort would have to be accessible from some other route than 80/89/267. Any development accessed through Truckee and the town will be on it like stink on shit. We don't need more winter gridlock with no way for people to get to work and school and no access for emergency vehicles. Especially since the development will be outside the town limits and bring no revenue to the town, just headaches.
    Good points OG. Unfortunately “environmental concerns” in California way too many is just another term for NIMBY, which is far too powerful in California IMO. And NIMBY loves to pass laws and regulations so that they can protect their interests (i.e. zoning laws). However with enough financial incentive even NIMBY can be overcome. Don’t you think if Meta or Google saw huge financial gains in building a ski resort in the Sierra it would get done no problem?

    And I will point out that true environmental groups like those trying to abolish Hetch Hetchy and give us back Little Yosemite Valley have seen far fewer success. But hey getting rid of Hetch Hetchy will make some people’s lives a bit harder, the NIMBY comes out and get rid of someone else’s water supply.

    Now, let it snow!!!

  18. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKWood View Post
    Vail handing out free accommodation; Maybe they’re not that greedy that greedy after all [emoji57]

    https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/ne...venly-gondola/
    Just one more reason supporting "death before download."

  19. #994
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    Found some prints:

    Did it used to be called the main lodge?
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	484615

    Living in the parking lot during school breaks
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	484616

    A timeless view in the background.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	484620

    I remember back then, staring at the cali chute area, while riding chair 4, and imagining the possibility of skiing it…. It felt so cool to ski it for the first time with that distant memory.

  20. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish Rider View Post
    Prob J1. No phone, loads at 4:58, does it even run that late?

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    No, she was a paying customer. Gondy op told her she could download.

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  21. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Found some prints:

    Did it used to be called the main lodge?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1337.jpg 
Views:	290 
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ID:	484615
    is that a sign for LADIES DAY with $7.00 tickets??

  22. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by hercule33 View Post
    Good points OG. Unfortunately “environmental concerns” in California way too many is just another term for NIMBY, which is far too powerful in California IMO. And NIMBY loves to pass laws and regulations so that they can protect their interests (i.e. zoning laws). However with enough financial incentive even NIMBY can be overcome. Don’t you think if Meta or Google saw huge financial gains in building a ski resort in the Sierra it would get done no problem?

    And I will point out that true environmental groups like those trying to abolish Hetch Hetchy and give us back Little Yosemite Valley have seen far fewer success. But hey getting rid of Hetch Hetchy will make some people’s lives a bit harder, the NIMBY comes out and get rid of someone else’s water supply.

    Now, let it snow!!!
    NIMBY certainly uses environmental law towards its ends but the forces that killed Independence Lake and Mineral King were not NIMBY but state and national environmental groups. (Neither place is in anyone's backyard.) And NIMBY is not as powerful as people think. In Sacramento East Sac is the heart of NIMBY and yet most projects opposed by the neighbors happen anyway--McKinley Village, McKinley Park storm water tank project, St Francis school, Mercy McMahon Terrace are examples. In Truckee the only recent neighbor opposed project I can think of was Grocery Outlet, which happened anyway. I would categorize environmental opposition to ski resorts as sincere.

    NIMBY has had no success with zoning laws in CA either. State law recently abolished R1 zoning, to the dismay of a lot of people in R1 neighborhoods. Side note--R! was invented in Berkeley CA of all places after the SCOTUS abolished explicit racial covenants, the theory being that Black people couldn't afford single family houses.

  23. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    ehhhhh don’t totally leave nuance at the door OG
    You want nuance? My posts aren't long enough as it is?

  24. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by emcee View Post
    is that a sign for LADIES DAY with $7.00 tickets??
    Yep

  25. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    You want nuance? My posts aren't long enough as it is?
    I laughed pretty hard

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