Real Estate Crash thread

[skiballs]

FSBO and paying 2-2.5% to bring a buyer seems reasonable to me.
That’s how I’ve sold.


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[Foggy_Goggles]

FSBO and paying 2-2.5% to bring a buyer seems reasonable to me.
That’s how I’ve sold.


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Did you play to get the listing on the MLS somehow, Craigslist, sign in the yard...whats the move for marketing?

[Bunion 2020]

Jesus, how do I sign up? I can be a plaintiff in Massachusetts or California. In Mass I did a FSBO but had to pay the buyers agent.

How the fuck did dirt pumps get away with this for so long?

Natl Org. of Realtors has some reach.

[skiballs]

Did you play to get the listing on the MLS somehow, Craigslist, sign in the yard...whats the move for marketing?

$500 to get mls listing


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[summit]

How the fuck did dirt pumps get away with this for so long?

Good question.

Glad I bought a FSBO and just paid an atty 1500.

RE commissions are inflated vs the services provided in most cases and that is only supported by exactly what these lawsuits are about.

[RootSkier]

Good question.

Glad I bought a FSBO and just paid an atty 1500.

I found our current house on Craigslist. No attorneys or realtors involved. Perfect.

[PNWbrit]

Jesus, how do I sign up? I can be a plaintiff in Massachusetts or California. In Mass I did a FSBO but had to pay the buyers agent.

The Illinois case has already been granted class certification (there was a link posted to the order earlier). The class is not just for Illinois residents/home buyers it's nationwide. If you paid commission to a defendant agent you are likely already a member of the class unless you choose at some point to opt out.

At this point there is no need for new "plaintiffs" as the existing class representatives named on the docket represent all the claims of affected persons.

[summit]

I mean a 1M house up here, buyers agent gets 20K. Did they do 500 hours of labor for that buyer?

Or 50?

Whats that hourly rate? Attorney level? How hard is it to become a RE agent? It's not.

[liv2ski]

I mean a 1M house up here, buyers agent gets 20K. Did they do 500 hours of labor for that buyer?

Or 50?

Whats that hourly rate? Attorney level? How hard is it to become a RE agent? It's not.

Over the years I have thought about how many hours an agent puts into a transaction. I have listed properties for friends (for a $2,500 flat fee) and sold a few homes to family and friends for the same commission to me ( well 0 for family).
Working with a buyer takes easily twice the hours as a seller from my limited experience.
On a million dollar sale I would be happy with $10k in comp as the listing agent and for a buyer I would bill them an hourly rate like a law office.
Both would result in large savings and lower prices for buyer and seller.
YRMV

[summit]

Whats a fair hourly rate?

[dan_pdx]

Whats a fair hourly rate?

My gut? Somewhere between CPA and lawyer, but the real answer is always "what the market will bear"

[liv2ski]

Whats a fair hourly rate?

Depends, if client interview makes them sound like a pita, then 100% more than an easier client imo.

[J. Barron DeJong]

My gut? Somewhere between CPA and lawyer, but the real answer is always "what the market will bear"

Why?

Isn’t the training requirement to become a realtor less rigorous than a CPA? (Not certain.)

I am certain that it’s nothing like what’s required to become a lawyer.

[byates1]

I found our current house on Craigslist. No attorneys or realtors involved. Perfect.

Nice. I'd feel better paying an attorney a couple grand to make sure the deal is on lock..

[summit]

My gut? Somewhere between CPA and lawyer

So somewhere $150-600/hr billable rate? On what basis? Those are graduate prepared professionals with 5-7 years of post-secondary education.

RE agent is about 4 months of often self-guided course work and does not requires a highschool diploma. This is similar to EMT.

My guess is what the market will bear is way less than <$100/hr billable if there was actual open competition.

[schuss]

I think it also depends on the experience. We've done the lion's share of the work for most of our buys and just needed a realtor to get the keys/schedule the showing as lots of selling realtors won't respond or key share with non-realtors. I'd pay very little for a bare-bones, but more for one that's in a non-local area who runs down properties to shortlist or livestreams the showing. That said, most successful realtors I've seen outsource that stuff to their admins anyhow.

[liv2ski]

My guess is what the market will bear is way less than <$100/hr billable if there was actual open competition.

Likely not as the agents mostly have to pay a supervising broker some cash, their showing agent and transaction coordinator. Then there is E & O and other expenses.
My point is they have expenses, so for less than $5k it likely makes no sense. And remember inflation means they need to make more than 3 years ago.
I could see a base amount/comp +.

[BFD]

since 2012 the average house appreciation has been 7.7%. Commissions have stayed constant between 5 and 6%. I am pretty sure they are keeping up with inflation.

[406]

How the fuck did dirt pumps get away with this for so long?

Second largest lobbying money spent for 2023 and typically in top 3. Seems like they shouldn't have to bribe so many politicians if they actually provide a service worth the cost?

[summit]

Likely not as the agents mostly have to pay a supervising broker some cash, their showing agent and transaction coordinator. Then there is E & O and other expenses.
My point is they have expenses, so for less than $5k it likely makes no sense. And remember inflation means they need to make more than 3 years ago.
I could see a base amount/comp +.

Everyone has expenses. Lawyers and CPAs do.

What makes sense for what the market would bear with fair competition on take-home hourly for a job that has extremely low educational, cost, and time barriers to entry?

[XXX-er]

A buddy of mine with a father & brother in the RE game quit after 13 yrs so I had to ask her why and she said " I just couldn't stand the people "

office fees for an agent around here are 1500 per month a lot of expenses if you are not selling

about 10 yrs ago I sold a house while riding the skyline chair only 15 minutes to make the pitch

buddy gave me a case of beer

[RootSkier]

Isn’t the training requirement to become a realtor less rigorous than a CPA? (Not certain.)

In Montana...high school diploma and a 60-hour class, which you can do in a single week. Then the easiest test ever invented and BAM. Now you're a Realtor(TM).

[dan_pdx]

Why?
Isn’t the training requirement to become a realtor less rigorous than a CPA? (Not certain.)
I am certain that it’s nothing like what’s required to become a lawyer.

More about my perceived value of the service rendered. I paid $1200 to get my taxes prepared last year (had a weird tax year last time around), and good market advice on buying/selling a house is worth more than that to me, even if it doesn't take any longer than preparing my taxes.

So somewhere $150-600/hr billable rate? On what basis? Those are graduate prepared professionals with 5-7 years of post-secondary education.

RE agent is about 4 months of often self-guided course work and does not requires a highschool diploma. This is similar to EMT.

My guess is what the market will bear is way less than <$100/hr billable if there was actual open competition.

PhDs in comp lit also have extensive post-secondary education, and they make bupkis [shrug]. The value of the service doesn't have to be tied to how much education they have. Hell, based on what I hear from my wife, plenty of women's hairdressers outearn CPAs.

For the sake of discussion, let's say it takes 10-20 hours of work by an agent to buy or sell a house. (That's just my WAG, those who know better, please chime in). Using your value of "less than $100/hr", that means an agent would be making something under $2k to buy/sell a house. Personally I wouldn't feel confident that I'm getting good advice at that point.

[liv2ski]

Exactly

[liv2ski]

Agents gets so much of their time wasted by non-performing customers. They have to build in those non-productive hours spent working to deals that actually close, hence the ridiculous amounts that the industry has become to due to higher sales prices.
Agents like any professional should tell prospective sellers and buyers that they charge a flat fee plus x for their time that will be paid regardless of a transaction closing or not to get their fees down for non-performing customers.