Title 9 is dead

[Flounder]

See also, Riley Gaines, brave enough to speak up as someone who suffered the consequences rather than just having an opinion, then absolutely viciously attacked by activists and the press.

She tied for 5th place against Lia. It’s not like without the trans woman she would be winning. Hardly going to make a career out of swimming. She is however making good money as a public speaker. Wouldn’t really say she’s suffering when she’s turned it into a career.

[toast2266]

I am actually pretty competitive and raced XC MTB for about 5 years and enjoyed the hell out of the stress on race days and it was fun so there ya have it. Competition comes in many forms. Like people.

I did a regional bike race in Big Sky a while back where a transwoman showed up and entered the pro class. This was before the whole trans people in athletics discussion had really gathered steam. I (a male) had actually raced against the transwoman a couple years earlier when they were male. The race had the usual assortment of pro women from the area, some of whom were reasonably competitive on a national level, had sponsorships, etc. The transwoman mopped the floor with them. Beat them by a massive margin, and would have placed maybe 4th or 5th in pro men.

Nobody made a scene out of it or anything, but it was pretty obvious that the pro women thought the result was non-optimal. I think everyone recognized the difficulty of the situation, and no one wanted to deny the transwoman the right to race. And there weren't any hard feelings against the transwoman - it seemed obvious to me that she/they weren't trying to game the system. They were just a person who used to enjoy racing bikes as a male, and now still enjoyed racing bikes after their transition.

Seems like a good example where women's categories should be for biological women, and men's categories should be open.

[Conundrum]

We can say let the women decide, but it takes a VERY brave cis-woman to want to voice opposition/support in today's vitriolic world where nobody listens and responds to everything with overt hostility. We can see that here in this thread with many. Any question of what is right/wrong/ethics is met with the predictable personal attacks, statements taken out of context, etc.

.

If you follow Idaho politics, and who wouldn't, it's better than The Onion, you may have noticed an underaged CIS woman who sued the state of Idaho for their trans ban in sports. She was listed as Jane Doe in the lawsuit due to her age at the time. She sued to block the bill as she saw problems with the verification process. In conversations with her, she also said that those people need to be included, they're rare, and it may break her heart to lose to one, she'd just have to work harder to beat them next time. She is now a D2 soccer player and will enter med school after her undergrad. Her parents are good friends of mine and I've known this young woman since she was little. Strong, smart, articulate and convicted. In conversations with her, I have changed my perspective somewhat.

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/lo...5-4c8fe7bd781c

They are out there.

[old goat]

The idea of letting women decide what should happen in women's sports seems like a great idea, but wouldn't it be exclusionary of transwomen if they weren't part of the discussion?

How could, in today's very hostile world, a cis-woman possibly publicly voice opposition to transwomen in sport? We've seen the result in the media. The hostility is pretty significant and certainly dissuades anybody but those with the thickest skin from voicing opinion.

We can say let the women decide, but it takes a VERY brave cis-woman to want to voice opposition/support in today's vitriolic world where nobody listens and responds to everything with overt hostility. We can see that here in this thread with many. Any question of what is right/wrong/ethics is met with the predictable personal attacks, statements taken out of context, etc.

Perhaps the only safe way to come to a conclusion is via anonymous voting or polls, where people can voice their opinion without fear of hostility. Not sure of the validity of Gallup polls, but the majority of American's are apparently against the inclusion of trans-athletes outside of their gender assigned at birth.

I fully expect to get shredded for this post, which is totally fine, despite it seeming to be pretty neutral on the topic.

Name a subject where people can express an opinion without being viciously attacked. Or where one where most people who express opinions don't take one extreme position or the other.

[Trackhead]

@trackhead - I don’t see why governing bodies of each sport can’t solicit their members anonymously.

That would probably be a good solution.

[Cono Este]

She tied for 5th place against Lia. It’s not like without the trans woman she would be winning. Hardly going to make a career out of swimming. She is however making good money as a public speaker. Wouldn’t really say she’s suffering when she’s turned it into a career.

That girl trained 2x per day, 6 days a week, 11 1/2 months yr., pushing 10 miles a day, fucking swimming, her whole life. And 5th place at d1 probably put her to 20 in world. If not top 10.

No one who has not trained like that deserves an opinion on any of this.

Because to try and explain what that kind of dedication to the purple haired mafia would fall on fat, dumb, deaf ears.

[Trackhead]

Name a subject where people can express an opinion without being viciously attacked.

On the internet or social media, zero. I guess it’s the world we live in. In person it’s usually much more challenging to be an overt asshole for most people. Put everyone in this thread in the same room with a few pitchers of beer, I bet it would look vastly different than this forum.

[summit]

She tied for 5th place against Lia. It’s not like without the trans woman she would be winning. Hardly going to make a career out of swimming.

So she should STFU right? Having opinions about sharing a changing room with a biologically intact male is only allowed if you are on the podium, right? Or when are females allowed to have an opinion again, sir?

This is a perfect example of minimizing the opinions of females in this discussion.

[byates1]

https://youtu.be/wxDaiyREBPw

Has this made it into this thread yet?

[byates1]

https://youtu.be/URz-RYEOaig

[Bunion 2020]

So she should STFU right? Having opinions about sharing a changing room with a biologically intact male is only allowed if you are on the podium, right? Or when are females allowed to have an opinion again, sir?

This is a perfect example of minimizing the opinions of females in this discussion.

You are just as entitled to an opinion as anyone including Riley Gaines. But she has been all over the media with this cause and to me it feels like a bit of a scam.

[The AD]

Dude. Boogeyman is not the preferred nomenclature

If it was good enough for KC and the Sunshine Man, it's good enough for me.

[Mofro261]

On the internet or social media, zero. I guess it’s the world we live in. In person it’s usually much more challenging to be an overt asshole for most people. Put everyone in this thread in the same room with a few pitchers of beer, I bet it would look vastly different than this forum.

As IF there could be some sort of harmony between the beer drinking factions?

I'm all for harmony but still going all in on Taste Great, with a double down and a big Fuck You! to those woke Less Filling mofos.

[Trackhead]

You are just as entitled to an opinion as anyone including Riley Gaines. But she has been all over the media with this cause and to me it feels like a bit of a scam.

I’ve wondered the same, but we didn’t live her experience so who are we to know?

[Bunion 2020]

Just my opinion, man.

[Trackhead]

Just my opinion, man.

Opinions are like vaginas, everybody’s got one

[Flounder]

So she should STFU right?

No she’s free to spread her message as much as she wants. It pays a whole lot better than swimming does. It’s easy money these days selling indignation. She should cash in while she can. She could have just been a vocal advocate for the sport but she chose to make it a business. Of course with that comes criticism and questions about her motives.

https://www.athletespeakers.com/speaker/riley-gaines

[The AD]

She tied for 5th place against Lia.

Correction: she tied Lia for fifth place (in the 200 freestyle).

[Lia Thomas did win an event, though, the 500 free]

[byates1]

It is pretty fucked up that lia( w a dick and likes girls) is changing w the women's swim team.

Who here has young daughters and is fine w bio males changing w them?

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Who here has young daughters and is fine w bio males changing w them?

Oh yeah, now we're really getting to the heart of the trans-panic.

[Flounder]

Correction: she tied Lia for fifth place (in the 200 freestyle).

[Lia Thomas did win an event, though, the 500 free]

Yes, thanks for clarifying my badly worded post. I know Cono is all worked up about the amount of hours she trained but she still lost to 4 biological women. I’m guessing all, including Lia, have dedicated the similar amounts of time training.

[byates1]

No panic here, the 99% of girls in the girls locker room have a right to feel comfortable. The one dude who wants to change w them can use the family room.

[TBS]

Opinions are like vaginas, everybody’s got one

I just spit water out my nose in Dr waiting room
Well played

[Core Shot]

Opinions are like vaginas, everybody’s got Sand in them

FIFY

[Cono Este]

No she’s free to spread her message as much as she wants. It pays a whole lot better than swimming does. It’s easy money these days selling indignation. She should cash in while she can. She could have just been a vocal advocate for the sport but she chose to make it a business. Of course with that comes criticism and questions about her motives.

https://www.athletespeakers.com/speaker/riley-gaines

That’s fucking ridiculous. The problem with sandy opinions now, is that everyone’s sticking their noses in other people business.

The swimming culture is unique. We wear next to nothing all day long, around the opposite sex. So I could give a shit about locker room talk. Stealing someone’s glory, when they e worked harder than you, and I’d guarantee Riley worked a lot harder that the dude, is fucking bullshit. Give the dude his own lane, let him pick his team, but the times don’t count. Never will. It’s so ridiculous that’s not enough. You’re generally only racing yourself In Swimming.

The difference between 400th In the nation, and 5th, is a lot.