Title 9 is dead

[Trackhead]

I didn’t know this thread was initially posted in 2018 and received zero replies and died immediately. It’s interesting that a mere five years later it’s a fucking firestorm. It died, was resurrected, set on fire, deleted, and resurrected a third time.

Hall of fame shit for sure.

[old goat]

^^^And I already said that's probably ultimately for the women's pro leagues to sort out. Whatever they decide will cascade down to college and varsity high school. Checked out the WNBA and WNSL lately? Those and the women in competitive sports are the key stakeholders here. I'm good with whatever THEY decide. It likely won't be what the white crhistian mafia in congress wants though,

I agree, the women should decide, but how often in women's sports does that happen? What is certain that it won't be decided by TGR, so anyone can say anything here without doing anyone any harm.

[byates1]

All kinds of ways to compete.

I never really was a ball game kind of kid. I played backyard football and tried to play tackle football in 7th grade and I was just too fucking small and didn't like the idea of hitting. A definite disadvantage to a pigskin career.

I have rotten vision so I couldn't hit a baseball, I could field OK, throw well and run fast. Not a 5 tool BB player. I did enjoy track and running distance and swimming but never at a competitive level.

I am actually pretty competitive and raced XC MTB for about 5 years and enjoyed the hell out of the stress on race days and it was fun so there ya have it. Competition comes in many forms. Like people.

At what point did you get your tits put on and decide to transition?

[The AD]

Butthurt? Is that acceptable nomenclature?

Only for ass clowns.

[The AD]

Competition is great - brings out your best, teaches you that you can do more than you thought possible if you dig deep.
It’s the big focus on “winning is good, losing is bad” that I have a problem with.

I played on a Jr All-star hockey team while in HS. We did fine against teams in PNW USA but every time we went up to BC for a tournament we got our asses kicked. So what - We still had a great time, learned some things and met some great kids, a couple who actually laced up skates in NHL.

I get that, but I think part of the fun is knowing you gave your all and got beat by the better team or individual. If one of those PNW teams you beat all of a sudden showed up to a game with Gretzky and Lemieux lacing up do you think everyone on your team would think that was fair play?

[TBS]

My team against Gretzky & Lemieux +4 would have been unfair. They would have been 5 and 9 years old at the time.

I’ve watched 21st century women’s Jr hockey - they could have kicked our asses too. Way faster

[SumJongGuy]

I didn’t know this thread was initially posted in 2018 and received zero replies and died immediately. It’s interesting that a mere five years later it’s a fucking firestorm. It died, was resurrected, set on fire, deleted, and resurrected a third time.

Hall of fame shit for sure.

That's because nobody cared until the GQP escalated it as their no homo red herring. Other than that it's still nothing..

The big thing they fear here has NOTHING to do with fair play. They fear any further acceptance will lead to more people coming out of the closet.. more support for gay rights, and the thought that they will have to coexist with more openly gay people in society..
End of the day, THAT'S what's really going on here..

P.S. Its's no coincidence that the bills are coming up at the same time as the don't say gay parental rights bullshit

[Bunion 2020]

^^^when you raced, how focused were you on hardware vs beating your time goals?

I was usually the latter. I learned early on that there were always about 10 guys better than anyone else, and luck was about 50% of the deal in XCO. I was also known to turn myself inside-out for a preme that I wanted, even if it meant barely finishing…

Pretty much the same mindset. I was in my early 30s and racing Sport. There were so many sandbaggers in Sport that could have been competitive in the Expert or even Pro classes to make the classifications nearly meaningless.

[skiJ]

That's because nobody cared until the GQP escalated it as their no homo red herring. Other than that it's still nothing..

The big thing they fear here has NOTHING to do with fair play. They fear any further acceptance will lead to more people coming out of the closet.. more support for gay rights, and the thought that they will have to coexist with more openly gay people in society..
End of the day, THAT'S what's really going on here..

P.S. Its's no coincidence that the bills are coming up at the same time as the don't say gay parental rights bullshit

Please take this junk to polyass -

Thank you. skiJ

[SumJongGuy]

Please take this junk to polyass -

Thank you. skiJ

You first?

while I appreciate this goat,
I still strongly discourage comparing anything to the upheaval in the world in the 1930s and 1940s -

regarding gender and sports , about my only interest(s) are < that there is no competitive advantage ; and
that the rules are followed.

Today, I think if someone wants to call themself a woman or a man, ,,, I believe as a species we have bigger problems to worry about -

( for someone to say others don't believe "trans women' are 'women" ,,, is just junk -

let the 'trans women' compete with other 'trans women' -

End of story. )

Thank you

[californiagrown]

I'm surprised to hear the meanest girls at your school were jocks. That was not my experience.

Really? The classic trope of a mean girl is the high school cheerleader.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...?term=Jockette

[skiJ]

Dear SJG.

There is nothing political in my post ( from days ago -
Except it was in-response to a post comparing the -phobia to Nazisism ) ;

the name-calling and personal attacks that these forums so quickly degenerate to is a sad symptom of twenty-first century society ;

your post has nothing to do with anything trans- < it is a political rant. and there is a subforum for politics.

Please - take it there.


skiJ

[californiagrown]

That's because nobody cared until the GQP escalated it as their no homo red herring. Other than that it's still nothing..

The big thing they fear here has NOTHING to do with fair play. They fear any further acceptance will lead to more people coming out of the closet.. more support for gay rights, and the thought that they will have to coexist with more openly gay people in society..
End of the day, THAT'S what's really going on here..

P.S. Its's no coincidence that the bills are coming up at the same time as the don't say gay parental rights bullshit

Eh, i think it used to be gay panic, but now even most of the GOP is A-okay with gay folks after the destruction of america didnt occur when their coworkers and family came out of the closet over the past dacade. Pretty much everyone knows and likes a gay person in their life these days so you cant scare them with that "what-if" boogeyman anymore. But, they still need a boogey man to point at and talk about family values, and american culture, and think of the children, etc... and that boogeyman is, well, a man in a dress because trans folks are still pretty darn rare. Rarity is key when stoking fear and panic because people will believe the narrative if they dont have the personal experience to contradict the narrative. The GOP does a phenominal job of marketing/branding their issues- way better than the democrats. FFS they have made the american flag synonomous with the GOP, they have turned the liberal term "woke" into a derogatory term, etc.

[Core Shot]

Dude. Boogeyman is not the preferred nomenclature

[Mod Team]

As a friendly reminder, because this thread provides a classic example of the line between the padded room and poliass, discussing the issues around transgender athletic participation is fine, arguing over the politics of it will get this thread moved.

[SumJongGuy]

It's a solution looking for a problem.. And the "problem" is a red herring being used to advance a completely different sociopolitical agenda. Nuff said..

As for sports, again and again, let's see what the folks paying to support the pro leagues decide about "fairness" versus "eligibility" and revenues will determine that outcome..

[californiagrown]

It's a solution looking for a problem.. And the "problem" is a red herring being used to advance a completely different sociopolitical agenda. Nuff said..

As for sports, again and again, let's see what the folks paying to support the pro leagues decide about "fairness" versus "eligibility" and revenues will determine that outcome..

There is no revenue in womens sports. There are only a small handful of sports/events which even have a womens pro league available. The deciding entity will be the IOC, which does not have a great track record with really anything.

[SumJongGuy]

There is no revenue in womens sports. There are only a small handful of sports/events which even have a womens pro league available. The deciding entity will be the IOC, which does not have a great track record with really anything.

Title IX is not global. WNBA and WNSL will decide here. Who can and can't play on our Olympic teams is a different matter.

Likely what someone's Real ID says their sex is will be the legal definition.. But folks can still be DQ'd for PEDs, In grade school pre ID age it might be decided at the district level if the state laws are struck down.

[californiagrown]

Title IX is not global. WNBA and WNSL will decide here. Who can and can't play on our Olympic teams is a different matter.

Likely what someone's Real ID says their sex is will be the legal definition.. But folks can still be DQ'd for PEDs, In grade school pre ID age it might be decided at the district level if the state laws are struck down.

Tennis, golf, basketball, soccer are pretty much the only women pro leagues that generate any kind of revenue. All other womens sports pretty much only have national federation teams and compete at international tournaments which are based around the Olympics.

It will be interesting to see how countries like russia and china handle it if the IOC gives broad acceptance to trans athletes. They are socially conservative countries run by socially conservative men. But, they also have a long trackrecord of state sponsored any-means-neccessary sport programs that include doping, intentional breeding, sport specific boarding schools, etc... so will they all of a sudden have a sex-transition program for their male athletes that dont make it into the top 20 nationally?

[Core Shot]

As a friendly reminder, because this thread provides a classic example of the line between the padded room and poliass, discussing the issues around transgender athletic participation is fine, arguing over the politics of it will get this thread moved.

What about big mike? How big is he?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Guys are too insecure to use a granny shot for basketball free throws, even though it’s consistently more effective. How many are going to be secure enough to pretend to be a girl/woman to play a sport?

I do know of a guy who came first place in a half-marathon, in the women’s age category. In his defense though, it seems the organizer’s placed him in the female category because he has a foreign name that is a common girls name in English.

He didn’t realize he’d won the women’s category until he got home and his wife asked him why his ribbon was pink - he’s colorblind, had no idea. I guess the organizers didn’t want to call him out when he accepted it in case he identified as female. (He’s a balding man with a beard…)

[dunfree]

There is no revenue in womens sports. There are only a small handful of sports/events which even have a womens pro league available. The deciding entity will be the IOC, which does not have a great track record with really anything.

The sports governing body’s set their rules for competition- FIFA (soccer), FIE (fencing), FIS (ski/snowboard), etc. Olympic committees are just flow through graft

[Trackhead]

The idea of letting women decide what should happen in women's sports seems like a great idea, but wouldn't it be exclusionary of transwomen if they weren't part of the discussion?

How could, in today's very hostile world, a cis-woman possibly publicly voice opposition to transwomen in sport? We've seen the result in the media. The hostility is pretty significant and certainly dissuades anybody but those with the thickest skin from voicing opinion.

We can say let the women decide, but it takes a VERY brave cis-woman to want to voice opposition/support in today's vitriolic world where nobody listens and responds to everything with overt hostility. We can see that here in this thread with many. Any question of what is right/wrong/ethics is met with the predictable personal attacks, statements taken out of context, etc.

Perhaps the only safe way to come to a conclusion is via anonymous voting or polls, where people can voice their opinion without fear of hostility. Not sure of the validity of Gallup polls, but the majority of American's are apparently against the inclusion of trans-athletes outside of their gender assigned at birth.

I fully expect to get shredded for this post, which is totally fine, despite it seeming to be pretty neutral on the topic.

[summit]

The idea of letting women decide what should happen in women's sports seems like a great idea, but wouldn't it be exclusionary of transwomen if they weren't part of the discussion?

How could, in today's very hostile world, a cis-woman possibly publicly voice opposition to transwomen in sport? We've seen the result in the media. The hostility is pretty significant and certainly dissuades anybody but those with the thickest skin from voicing opinion.

We can say let the women decide, but it takes a VERY brave cis-woman to want to voice opposition/support in today's vitriolic world where nobody listens and responds to everything with overt hostility. We can see that here in this thread with many. Any question of what is right/wrong/ethics is met with the predictable personal attacks, statements taken out of context, etc.

Perhaps the only safe way to come to a conclusion is via anonymous voting or polls, where people can voice their opinion without fear of hostility. Not sure of the validity of Gallup polls, but the majority of American's are apparently against the inclusion of trans-athletes outside of their gender assigned at birth.

I fully expect to get shredded for this post, which is totally fine, despite it seeming to be pretty neutral on the topic.

See also, Riley Gaines, brave enough to speak up as someone who suffered the consequences rather than just having an opinion, then absolutely viciously attacked by activists and the press.

[TBS]

@trackhead - I don’t see why governing bodies of each sport can’t solicit their members anonymously.