The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

[ktoor]

https://alaskapublic.org/2023/05/18/...Pmn5luWEH-lXd4

Wow this is so so rad. Ive actually had this on my bucket list but doing the full infinity with the double tahoma lap on skis. What a crusher!

Since this is the skinny ski thread, curious what would be peoples gear of choice for this sort of endeavor? Love going 65mm skis and think the conditions in his video they would work, though Im not as good a skier (by far). Dynafit DNAs may fit the bill with a skimo-y boot? Guess Im a little influenced by the recent Kuenzle fkt on denali as well. Rad folks doing rad things these days.


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[Benneke10]

The DNA is a solid boot, I have friends who use them and I've tried them out. I would have gotten a pair myself this season but the newest version has a fatal flaw. The gaiter is only partial-length so it leaves the liners exposed above the ankles. Their product photos show a full length gaiter, but the photos are wrong.

[fleaches]

When the snow is always soft and you can ski in shorts I guess there isn't much gear to discuss

RE: the BD sale, Activejunky has 8% cash back... I forgot to use it on my first order but I might go back for more stuff

I don't know what it is about Black Diamond, but whenever I order stuff from them with activejunkey the cash back never gets processed and I have to file a claim. Double check if you don't get an email from activejunkey!

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[ktoor]

The DNA is a solid boot, I have friends who use them and I've tried them out. I would have gotten a pair myself this season but the newest version has a fatal flaw. The gaiter is only partial-length so it leaves the liners exposed above the ankles. Their product photos show a full length gaiter, but the photos are wrong.

Did you find the performance better than other boots in the weight class?


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[Benneke10]

Did you find the performance better than other boots in the weight class?

The only other boot I've skied in the weight class is the Pierre Gignoux Mtn, and the PG skis much much better, however the PG has its own issues such as price, reliability, quality control, etc.

[ktoor]

Thnx thats helpful Ben. I still use my backland carbons for my skimo skis but am hoping to spring for a boot with skimo weight/ROM down the line eventually. Will likely be looking on the cheaper/used side of things but always nice to dream of boots like the PGs.


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[CirqueScaler]

Hi everyone, I am firesaling some lightweight gear that I thought this thread might appreciate.

Prefer SLC pickup, or pay real cost of shipping from SLC.

- Aski Nevaio 175cm with Ski Trab Vario 2 @ 296mm with Contour hybrid skins. Good condition. $500. Aski are the dampest lightweight skis, hands down. They are a bit heavy relative to, say, Movements, but they are incredibly, incredibly damp. My instinct is that these would be awesome for someone who likes the Zero G 95. Read up on Skimo.co.
- CAMP Crest PLASTIC skimo shovel. $35. These are inexplicably discontinued. The next-lightest shovel, which seems like a terrible product, is the Arva carbon fiber shovel. Why do you need a real shovel for skimo races!!! You don't. Literally had to beg in the Skimo Gear Swap facebook group to get one of these last year.
- Naturehike 1000 FP down jacket. $65. This is a great emergency layer. Packs into an included sack to 6"x3"x3"-ish and really, really warm. Weighs like 6 oz. Review here.
- Voile Spartan Ascent 154mm splitboard, 1 mount. $150. I thought I would get into splitboarding for powder skiing, but I'm moving out of Utah. Weighs about the same as a Voile Hyper V8 178cm. Put a hardboot setup on it!
- Petzl 6mm Pur line, 62m, with stuff sack for $160. Great tag/rap line. These cost a fortune, I cut 3 sections out of a 200m length that I split with friends.
- NWOT Petzl Rad System. $220.
- Used Blue Ice Choucas Pro Harness, size medium. $40. This is an awesome lightweight harness that packs up to the size of a can of coke but doesn't sacrifice as much as other skimo harnesses, including the Choucas Light. I used to gym climb in this thing lol. Really really awesome harness, I will miss using it.
- NWOT 65mm ATK Ski crampons. $35. Lol. I feel like Sheffetz wants these. I'd give them away free if that's what it takes, but it'd be nice to get some $$ for them.
- Used Petzl Irvis Hybrid, non-locking toe bails, with anti-balling plates. These are the aluminum rear and steel toes. Good condition. $65.

I also have a ton of Ski Trab and ATK binding parts. I have three pairs of ATK heel plates and a bunch of miscellaneous Ski Trab parts. It's kind of a cool collection; I would contend this is one of the best collections of niche ski trab-compatible parts in the CONUS. Selling some stuff or happy to give away to someone who wants it and will use.


From L-R, top-to-bottom
(Row 1)
ATK-branded Heel plate ($30) | Hagan-branded heel plate ($20) | ATK-branded heel plate ($30) | Vario flex plate ($20)
(Row 2)
4mm heel spacer, 1x the specific torx machine screw that fits into the heel plates that is really hard to find at hardware stores | ARK crampon hooks ($40) | Gara/Vario toe shim for use with heel plates | Gara/Vario crampon holder | 4x leashes
(Row 3)
Think these are the titanium heel springs | Gen 1 toe levers | Gen 2 toe levers | Spare R10 Vario.1 heel covers | Think these are the 5mm R12 heel springs | Strike plates for when the heel is fix mounted (flat ramp angle) | extra screws

[PinyonJuniper5]

PM sent on the crampons and binding parts!


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[Jonathan S.]

Love the callout re ultra skinny crampons!

I’ve been using these wider crampons on my 77mm skis:
https://skimo.co/dynafit-speed-crampon
I’ve also used them a few times on race skis without any problems.
As you can see, my review is dated January 2016 but I reference having had them for a few years already. So at perhaps a decade old, must be the oldest gear I still use, but still in perfect condition.

[old mexico]

I’ll take some of those ski trab vario bits. Had a heel blow up on me and think you have what I needs


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[CirqueScaler]

Can you pm me for what you need mex?

[dub_xion]

Just curious if anyone’s been on both the BC Mentis and Blizzard Zero G 80 and can comment. Looking for, well, what those skis are made for. Would pair with F1 LT. Thx!


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[skis_the_trees]

Just curious if anyone’s been on both the BC Mentis and Blizzard Zero G 80 and can comment. Looking for, well, what those skis are made for. Would pair with F1 LT. Thx!

Similar weight and quiver slot to the ZG-80, I've got these for sale with really nice skins for much cheaper!
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...trab+freerando

[dub_xion]

Similar weight and quiver slot to the ZG-80, I've got these for sale with really nice skins for much cheaper!
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...trab+freerando

Nice, thanks, i saw those but looking for 168cm min length. Took me a while to just feel ok (mentally) about anything below 180cm!


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[skis_the_trees]

Yea no worries. I have the same Ski Trab model in 178 and it is one of my "longest skiing" skis in the quiver given the full camber and long effective edge. Otherwise my alpine set ups are typically in the 190s. I could even downsize way below 178 in these and be fine for spring skimo missions.

[ezgzy]

Just curious if anyone’s been on both the BC Mentis and Blizzard Zero G 80 and can comment. Looking for, well, what those skis are made for. Would pair with F1 LT. Thx!


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You may already know this, but wildsnow has reviewed both of the these in the past and i bet you could get some good info from them


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[Alpentalic95]

Anyone here have experience on the Dynafit Blacklight Pros, Salomon MTN Summit 79s, or Atomic Backland UL 78? How different is this class of skis from true 65cm underfoot 165cm "race skis"? Looking to get into my first true light-weight setup for local skimo races and bigger vert missions.

My current spring setup are Solly MTN 95s mounted with G3 Zeds. Driven with the Backland Carbon for skimo. This set has served me extremely well for training, getting into racing, and spring touring from Rainier and Baker to surprise spring pow in BC. Definitely come from a downhill background, and the MTN 95s with 1kilo boots already forces me to be more precise, especially in bad snow - though they can still rip alright. I'm curious if there's truly any difference in how any of these 1 kilo skis actually ski. (Or, if it's just a wholly separate category of tool that demands an adapted ski style, even relative to more "normal" BC ski weights)

[fleaches]

Anyone here have experience on the Dynafit Blacklight Pros, Salomon MTN Summit 79s, or Atomic Backland UL 78? How different is this class of skis from true 65cm underfoot 165cm "race skis"? Looking to get into my first true light-weight setup for local skimo races and bigger vert missions.

My current spring setup are Solly MTN 95s mounted with G3 Zeds. Driven with the Backland Carbon for skimo. This set has served me extremely well for training, getting into racing, and spring touring from Rainier and Baker to surprise spring pow in BC. Definitely come from a downhill background, and the MTN 95s with 1kilo boots already forces me to be more precise, especially in bad snow - though they can still rip alright. I'm curious if there's truly any difference in how any of these 1 kilo skis actually ski. (Or, if it's just a wholly separate category of tool that demands an adapted ski style, even relative to more "normal" BC ski weights)

I have some blacklight pros that were my spring/summer ski last year. I'm using trab gara titans and 0g peak boots with them.

Like you I had a light ish touring ski (0g 95) and wanted something lighter that would be better for super long days and for casual skimo. I think the blacklight pros are great for this, I like them much better than the 0g 95s. They are pretty stiff and have good edge hold, but are much less punishing. They are very confidence inspiring in steep couloirs. And obviously very light. Obviously they get kicked around by funky snow but that's to be expected for the weight. The pin skin attachment thingy is a mixed bag. The skins don't detach when skinning, but are pretty much impossible to rip off skimo style because the pin will not come out easily.

I haven't actually skied on true skimo skis, but from what I gather unless you want a dedicated race ski you'd be better off with one of the superlight touring skis you mentioned. Race skis just sound difficult in real snow conditions and seem to be pretty fragile. Not that people don't do it, but for me it wouldn't be worth the marginal weight savings over the blacklight pro. I also only do a couple of races a year and am not really ever expecting to place, so it's also a lot more important to me that a ski is fun to use outside of racing.

I do think there's still a pretty big difference between a 1 kg boot and a true race boot though in terms of efficiency. I'd probably go that direction instead of real race skis if I wanted to be more efficient. I got some used pdg2 boots last year but haven't gotten to try them out yet, but I think they'll be great for races and traverses.

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[Westcoaster]

Anyone here have experience on the Dynafit Blacklight Pros, Salomon MTN Summit 79s, or Atomic Backland UL 78? How different is this class of skis from true 65cm underfoot 165cm "race skis"? Looking to get into my first true light-weight setup for local skimo races and bigger vert missions.

My current spring setup are Solly MTN 95s mounted with G3 Zeds. Driven with the Backland Carbon for skimo. This set has served me extremely well for training, getting into racing, and spring touring from Rainier and Baker to surprise spring pow in BC. Definitely come from a downhill background, and the MTN 95s with 1kilo boots already forces me to be more precise, especially in bad snow - though they can still rip alright. I'm curious if there's truly any difference in how any of these 1 kilo skis actually ski. (Or, if it's just a wholly separate category of tool that demands an adapted ski style, even relative to more "normal" BC ski weights)

Backland ul78 ski way better than they should. Hype is real. Just enough horsepower, and damp for how shrimpy they are.

[euro_speed_monster]

Backland ul78 ski way better than they should. Hype is real. Just enough horsepower, and damp for how shrimpy they are.

The UL85 is even better and weighs barely more. The 78s really only shine in firm conditions, but if you have solid fundamentals you can ski pretty much everything reasonably well on the UL85 from deep pow to bulletproof ice. Ask me how I know. Most versatile/skiable 1kg ski out there and I highly recommend them. They are very popular for a reason and yes not all 1kg skis are the same. Paired with some reasonable bindings they're also going to be a MASSIVE uphill upgrade from Solomon MTN 95s and Zeds, lol.

Do not buy race skis for real skiing. They are wildly different than the other skis you mentioned, not very fun to ski, not very versatile and not very durable/reliable. Buy race skis for racing or resort fitness laps and nothing more. There is a very good reason you don't see anyone ski mountaineering on race skis.

[Jonathan S.]

Do not buy race skis for real skiing. They are wildly different than the other skis you mentioned, not very fun to ski, not very versatile and not very durable/reliable. Buy race skis for racing or resort fitness laps and nothing more. There is a very good reason you don't see anyone ski mountaineering on race skis.

When I'm reasonably assured of nearly perfect corn conditions for ski mountaineering, then I use my race skis.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
Even though on paper the stats across my quiver appear to be a relatively smooth continuum, the race skis do ski far worse in anything but nearly perfect corn or resort groomers.
But I use race boots (cf sure is stiff!) and race bindings for all my ski touring.
(Which makes for an amusing contrast when slim cf race boots are driving 100+ waist skis, connected by nearly nonexistent race bindings.)

[ktoor]

When I'm reasonably assured of nearly perfect corn conditions for ski mountaineering, then I use my race skis.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
Even though on paper the stats across my quiver appear to be a relatively smooth continuum, the race skis do ski far worse in anything but nearly perfect corn or resort groomers.
But I use race boots (cf sure is stiff!) and race bindings for all my ski touring.
(Which makes for an amusing contrast when slim cf race boots are driving 100+ waist skis, connected by nearly nonexistent race bindings.)

would love to see some pics of the ski and boot quiver!

i have skimo skis (2011 pdgs) that i use with backland carbons which is fine but still really want to know what a true skimo boot feels like. unfortunately ive got my first kid arriving any day so new ski gear has gotten the kaibosh this year.


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[Alpentalic95]

Thanks for the insight - my use case is exactly what you describe. Pretty curious about both the Blacklight Pro and the UL 85, per the other comment. Pretty set on a 172cm length for both - idea would be to get a bit more downhill versatility and stability. (I won't be podiuming any races - my own fitness will still be by far the limiting factor over an extra -100g at the 165cm length)

I have some blacklight pros that were my spring/summer ski last year. I'm using trab gara titans and 0g peak boots with them.

Like you I had a light ish touring ski (0g 95) and wanted something lighter that would be better for super long days and for casual skimo. I think the blacklight pros are great for this, I like them much better than the 0g 95s. They are pretty stiff and have good edge hold, but are much less punishing. They are very confidence inspiring in steep couloirs. And obviously very light. Obviously they get kicked around by funky snow but that's to be expected for the weight. The pin skin attachment thingy is a mixed bag. The skins don't detach when skinning, but are pretty much impossible to rip off skimo style because the pin will not come out easily.

I haven't actually skied on true skimo skis, but from what I gather unless you want a dedicated race ski you'd be better off with one of the superlight touring skis you mentioned. Race skis just sound difficult in real snow conditions and seem to be pretty fragile. Not that people don't do it, but for me it wouldn't be worth the marginal weight savings over the blacklight pro. I also only do a couple of races a year and am not really ever expecting to place, so it's also a lot more important to me that a ski is fun to use outside of racing.

I do think there's still a pretty big difference between a 1 kg boot and a true race boot though in terms of efficiency. I'd probably go that direction instead of real race skis if I wanted to be more efficient. I got some used pdg2 boots last year but haven't gotten to try them out yet, but I think they'll be great for races and traverses.

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[Jonathan S.]

would love to see some pics of the ski and boot quiver!

i have skimo skis (2011 pdgs) that i use with backland carbons which is fine but still really want to know what a true skimo boot feels like. unfortunately ive got my first kid arriving any day so new ski gear has gotten the kaibosh this year.


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I'm more into words and numbers than photos.

So here are the numbers for skis and bindings:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...f=true&sd=true
If I were starting from scratch, I would go 100% ATK now.

Words for boots:
www.tinyurl.com/StratosV

As an economist, and as a father, my financial advice is that with the impending arrival of your first child (congrats in advance!) you should save as much as possible in a low-cost mutual fund indexed to the S&P 500.
As a skier, my advice is to ignore the preceding sentence and buy a skimo race boot with carbon upper cuff and plastic lower, so one of these:
https://skimo.co/dynafit-dna-boot
https://skimo.co/scarpa-alien-1.0
https://skimo.co/la-sportiva-raceborg-2-boots

[ktoor]

haha yeah i think the saving mindset is one i have not embraced but need to come to terms with. good thing i hoarded a decent amount lf gear in my pre-kid life.

thanks a ton for the resources! read through all of them (better morning read than a typical new yorker imo) and im convinced i *need* a boot in that category. wife is not completely convinced yet...still probably will wait till next season. im def not as good a skier as you but am excited to see how far i can go with something like the dna.

just will need to decide whether to rip the plums i have on the old pdgs and put em on something skinny but with a bit more backbone (atomics uls come to mind; i alrdy have something in the 95mm range as a daily driver) or to just get another setup altogether...

n+1 and all that. thanks again for the info jonathan.


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