The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

[toast2266]

Anyone have insights as to why Cast doesn't make P12 or 14 compatible kits?

Seems like there would be a lot of interest from a lighter weight perspective and the fact lots of us own P12s (or 14s) and do not see the need for more DIN for performance or extra cost. I was looking into this to throw on a pair on my favorite BC skis for the option to use them for BC & resort powder days vs G3 IONs.

Is it simply because they can't keep up with demand or is there some philosophical or practical reason?

I think it's just because the 12's and 14's have a different pedestal, so that'd require a new casting, which I would assume is pretty expensive. They've probably concluded that the cost isn't justified by the demand.

[justo8484]

Anyone have insights as to why Cast doesn't make P12 or 14 compatible kits?

Seems like there would be a lot of interest from a lighter weight perspective and the fact lots of us own P12s (or 14s) and do not see the need for more DIN for performance or extra cost. I was looking into this to throw on a pair on my favorite BC skis for the option to use them for BC & resort powder days vs G3 IONs.

Is it simply because they can't keep up with demand or is there some philosophical or practical reason?

99% sure the V1 cast system will work with at least the older version (non dual/GW) pivot 12/14 toes. You might need to do a little bit of dremel work on the plastic base of the toe to get it to fit on the cast slider plate though.

[Gustavar]

The toe piece design is quite different on the 12’s and 14’s, such that I don’t think it is possible for them to modify it the same way they can the metal toe piece models. There isn’t really a base pedestal, it’s more of a unified plastic piece.

[CHAIR_97]

Because plastic toes suck dick and balls . Cast is for s

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[CHAIR_97]

Shredders not pussies

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[HAB]

I think it's just because the 12's and 14's have a different pedestal, so that'd require a new casting, which I would assume is pretty expensive. They've probably concluded that the cost isn't justified by the demand.

It's even more fundamental than that, the 12 and 14 use separate toe wings rather than a central pedestal so it's not like you could even do a conceptually similar design with a different casting. It would take complete reengineering of the toe system (and it's a lot less obvious how you could even make it work than it is with the 15/18 toe).

If they were going to make a lower DIN version it'd almost certainly be cheaper and easier to source lighter springs that you could swap into a 15/18 to soften them up.

[AlpiNord]

Thanks guys. I thought it might be fairly involved. Pretty spendy at this point for the option vs simply installing inserts.

Because plastic toes suck dick and balls . Cast is for s

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Shredders not pussies

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(Couldn't resist):

[CHAIR_97]

I resemble the green ogre so no there isn't any compensation but I still laffed

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[mr_pretzel]

Anyone got some deets on the new CAST setup? Looks like theyre ditching the pedestals which is going to be sweet.

[Gustavar]

First I’ve heard of it, anything on the internet hinting at it?

[SkiLyft]

Haha, guessing the cascade components toe piece kicked their gears into motion


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[2FUNKY]

Shredders not pussies

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All those hardcore shredders out there on 18 dins set to 10……


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[SkiLyft]

FIFY — gotta protect those ACLs

All those smart shredders out there on 18 dins set to 10……

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[2FUNKY]

FIFY — gotta protect those ACLs






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Not really. Cute try tho…


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[banzai]

Less spring preload is better. Change my mind.

[nyskirat]

Anyone got some deets on the new CAST setup? Looks like theyre ditching the pedestals which is going to be sweet.

Where'd you see/hear this?

[Gnar_Shralp406]

Cascade Components toe piece

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/t...CAST-TOE-PLATE

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[galibier_numero_un]

Cascade Components toe piece

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/t...CAST-TOE-PLATE

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Different set of compromises, and I'd say that CAST made the right decision. That fellow from Cascade is an engineer and knows his stuff, but at the end of the day, this is a solution in search of a problem.

Mount them precisely, and you have no problem. If you're a hacker, you get what you deserve (mounting-wise). At some point, you have to assume that whoever is mounting these, didn't down a 6-pack first.

This part locates holes slightly forward of the Look toe pattern in order to implement the same mount point (heel). More holes in the ski, and the potential for mounting errors when doing an initial mount (need to offset the toe holes from wear the jig specifies) with a binding system where toe-heel spacing is critical.

6061-T6 is pretty hard stuff, but those posts are gonna wear over time. As the designer notes, titanium or steel would wear better, but it's expensive to machine and heavy (yes - titanium is DENSE).

It's pretty clear to me, that CAST took a step back, evaluated all of the variables, and made the best, real-world compromises.

... Thom

[kid-kapow]

Different set of compromises, and I'd say that CAST made the right decision. That fellow from Cascade is an engineer and knows his stuff, but at the end of the day, this is a solution in search of a problem.

No, it is not.

The Cascade plate was made due to people having issues with the pedestals coming loose after extensive use on wider skis, not due to wear.

Sure, it could be mounting errors, but then again - if not - and if the mount needs to be perfect every time for them to work as intended without slop/coming loose then things can still be improved. For reference, all of my sets have some play, but then again - I do not claim that my mounts are perfect, even when I am using a jig.

And no, while adding mounting complexity due to off set holes, the cascade plate does not add more holes to a ski (if mounted for the first time). And yes, it is less sensitive to drilling perfection than Cast's pedestals.

The two main negatives are cost and off set holes.

and yes, their delta is supposedly 1mm different, so 2.6 degrees or some such.

[mr_pretzel]

The new toe I saw goes away from the 4 pedestals completely, just two larger knobs for the toes to slid into and off now.

[altacoup]

Edit

[galibier_numero_un]

No, it is not.

The Cascade plate was made due to people having issues with the pedestals coming loose after extensive use on wider skis, not due to wear.

Sure, it could be mounting errors, but then again - if not - and if the mount needs to be perfect every time for them to work as intended without slop/coming loose then things can still be improved. For reference, all of my sets have some play, but then again - I do not claim that my mounts are perfect, even when I am using a jig.

And no, while adding mounting complexity due to off set holes, the cascade plate does not add more holes to a ski (if mounted for the first time). And yes, it is less sensitive to drilling perfection than Cast's pedestals.

The two main negatives are cost and off set holes.

and yes, their delta is supposedly 1mm different, so 2.6 degrees or some such.

I think you misinterpreted my point.

I wasn't contesting failure modes in the current system - whether due to design issues or to installation error. I've noticed a tiniest bit of play in the toe piece as well. The play is vertical (about .001") which isn't noticeable when the boot is clamped in. Perhaps over time this will get worse ... or not.

Did the individuals whose pedestals came loose install them with helicoils or inserts? If so, did they use Loc-tite / Vibratite? The CAST team recommends helicoils.

No doubt, a more foolproof installation procedure would be a good thing (reference the Shift thread). All in all however, careful technique will suffice (average shop rat need not apply). If I were the CAST boys, I'd begin to solicit feedback on good shops and publish a list.

My main point is that those studs will wear over time (6061) and the same problem will appear. Having the studs wear (and not the toe pedestal or the touring toe) is a good thing in my opinion. In the current design, the pillars are replaceable. With these plates however, the entire plate would be rendered useless.

A better design would have been to counterbore rebates in their base plate to accept the standard pillars, which are replaceable. This would address the key problem - poor mounting technique.

Anyway you cut it, both systems are very good, but I don't see this new thingie as being a better mousetrap ... just different.

... Thom

[grinch]

I think you misinterpreted my point.

I wasn't contesting failure modes in the current system - whether due to design issues or to installation error. I've noticed a tiniest bit of play in the toe piece as well. The play is vertical (about .001") which isn't noticeable when the boot is clamped in. Perhaps over time this will get worse ... or not.

Did the individuals whose pedestals came loose install them with helicoils or inserts? If so, did they use Loc-tite / Vibratite? The CAST team recommends helicoils.

No doubt, a more foolproof installation procedure would be a good thing (reference the Shift thread). All in all however, careful technique will suffice (average shop rat need not apply). If I were the CAST boys, I'd begin to solicit feedback on good shops and publish a list.

My main point is that those studs will wear over time (6061) and the same problem will appear. Having the studs wear (and not the toe pedestal or the touring toe) is a good thing in my opinion. In the current design, the pillars are replaceable. With these plates however, the entire plate would be rendered useless.

A better design would have been to counterbore rebates in their base plate to accept the standard pillars, which are replaceable. This would address the key problem - poor mounting technique.

Anyway you cut it, both systems are very good, but I don't see this new thingie as being a better mousetrap ... just different.

... Thom

Your idea to mount with helicoils with the epoxy on the helicoils(not the screws) set to dry with the tech toe piece in place , to have the pedastals dead straight, worked really well. Of course i also used inserts inside the larger helicoils(to fit around the inserts) so your method further helped get me that close to perfect mount. The epoxy set on the helicoils and inserts perfectly straight. Couple days later i took the tech toe off. Unsrewed the pedestals. Adddd vibratite to the screws/insert inners. Screwed the pedestals back on and voila. Alpine and tech toe fit really well. Very very slight play with the alpine toe that disappears when the boot is in

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[lucknau]

Your idea to mount with helicoils with the epoxy on the helicoils(not the screws) set to dry with the tech toe piece in place , to have the pedastals dead straight, worked really well. Of course i also used inserts inside the larger helicoils(to fit around the inserts) so your method further helped get me that close to perfect mount. The epoxy set on the helicoils and inserts perfectly straight. Couple days later i took the tech toe off. Unsrewed the pedestals. Adddd vibratite to the screws/insert inners. Screwed the pedestals back on and voila. Alpine and tech toe fit really well. Very very slight play with the alpine toe that disappears when the boot is in

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Trying to visualize this. You install helicoils sized for inserts, install the inserts, then the posts, then attach the touring toes and when the epoxy cures all of the tolerances in all of the parts give you best odds of getting perfectly aligned posts?


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[waveshello]

Trying to visualize this. You install helicoils sized for inserts, install the inserts, then the posts, then attach the touring toes and when the epoxy cures all of the tolerances in all of the parts give you best odds of getting perfectly aligned posts?


:::::@:::::

IIRC, that solution was to remedy a twice screwed up Cast mount.