Electric car thread

**MontuckyFried** · 01-31-2023, 04:07 PM

When EVs were in their more recent infancy (as opposed to their TRUE infancy back in the 1800s - not kidding), there was a litany of valid arguments against them. Now as things have developed, those arguments have been whittled away one by one.
"EVs and hybrids are too slow" - Well that's certainly not true any more!
"You can't charge them fast enough" - Fast chargers and high amperage home charging has made that patently false.
"You can't travel with them" - Tesla supercharger network and the competition to a lesser extent has taken care of that for much of the country.
"The range is terrible" - Not any more!
"They're ugly" - SO many sexy offerings now.

Now are there still some remaining arguments that still linger? Sure! Not denying that. However, that list keeps dwindling. Eventually, it's going to be tough to argue against them (or other alternative modes of greener transportation).

sb · 01-31-2023, 04:56 PM

What is the best Mr. Fusion for my Delorean?

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-31-2023, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

This is just sensationalism. Like wildfires didn't exist 100 years ago.

Palm to forehead.

I mean, I thought I was dumb. That made me feel like a genius.

**mcphee** · 01-31-2023, 05:15 PM

He’s clearly arguing in bad faith. No makes that statement with a straight face. No one should engage him further.

**schuss** · 01-31-2023, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

When EVs were in their more recent infancy (as opposed to their TRUE infancy back in the 1800s - not kidding), there was a litany of valid arguments against them. Now as things have developed, those arguments have been whittled away one by one.
"EVs and hybrids are too slow" - Well that's certainly not true any more!
"You can't charge them fast enough" - Fast chargers and high amperage home charging has made that patently false.
"You can't travel with them" - Tesla supercharger network and the competition to a lesser extent has taken care of that for much of the country.
"The range is terrible" - Not any more!
"They're ugly" - SO many sexy offerings now.

Now are there still some remaining arguments that still linger? Sure! Not denying that. However, that list keeps dwindling. Eventually, it's going to be tough to argue against them (or other alternative modes of greener transportation).

How am I agreeing with a Montucky post?

**4matic** · 01-31-2023, 05:24 PM

With the $4k used car tax credit I’m looking around. You can get a battery worn Leaf for $5k. Basically free. With a new 150 mile after market battery available for $12k.

I drove a 2016 Mercedes EQB priced used at $16k. That’s a very nice car. Both it and the Toyota Rav 4 share the same older Tesla large drive unit (LDU) which is prone to fatal leaks at $4k minimum fix. That’s not a deal breaker but no warranty car is risky. It’s easy to check for the leak though. I called a local ev indy shop and they said they didn’t work on Benz.

Here’s the Benz. Still for sale

https://www.folsomautomall.com/used/...519b12ec1e.htm

**AdironRider** · 01-31-2023, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by alpinevibes

FIFY.

You clearly have not rented a car recently. Yeah let’s add several hours, unnecessary miles driven, and a minimum hundred bucks to the cost every time I want to tow my boat.

**uglymoney** · 01-31-2023, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by mcphee

He’s clearly arguing in bad faith. No makes that statement with a straight face. No one should engage him further.

Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Palm to forehead.

I mean, I thought I was dumb. That made me feel like a genius.

He made my point for me. He won't acknowledge the most important part of the equation. Just like your toilet. A fucking disaster when you consider how well a simple hole in the backyard works.

**dcpnz** · 01-31-2023, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

Blah blah blah

We get it dood. You have a boat, you like your truck, you think you are going get a million miles out of your Tundra with minimal repairs, you can’t critically evaluate the validity of shit you read on the internet and you are unwilling to accept that other people have different needs and that EV’s actually make sense for many of us.

**oldnew_guy** · 01-31-2023, 07:22 PM

Wait. Someone with a boat is pontificating about the possible negative financial implications of owning an EV?

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-31-2023, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

Wait. Someone with a boat is pontificating about the possible negative financial implications of owning an EV?

lol

**dunfree** · 01-31-2023, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

Wait. Someone with a boat is pontificating about the possible negative financial implications of owning an EV?

apparently the EV will interfere with regularly floating the boat so they are mad at the positive financial implications

**WMD** · 01-31-2023, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

The problem is states have already codified laws banning ICE vehicles (new sales in CA post 2035). You aren't overcoming these issues just because there is an end date, which is my entire beef. Governments are forcing a hand 90+ percent of consumers know damn well makes things worse for them.

The vast majority of consumers are bringing in their vehicle to a mechanic for routine maintenance anyways. Just eliminating an oil change does nothing to affect the consumers day to day life, which still requires a trip to the shop every 5-10k miles.

This isn't about states deciding everyone should drive EVs for some random reason. It is entirely because it is clear that continuing to burn fossil fuels for transportation, or heat, or electricity , or anything, is making things worse for everybody.

It has also been shown over history that new technologies eventually take over due to market factors, but that usually takes decades - and we don't have decades to cut emissions. Governments are putting mandates out about EVs and renewable energy to speed the transition.

Frankly, 2035 is way late to stop selling ICE vehicles if we are to avoid the worst of climate change. We need to do it faster.

I would drive an EV for purely environmental reasons. AdironRider will say EVs aren't better for the environment, but that is wrong and not backed up by science. I bought an EV precisely because it was electric and I wanted to demonstrate to people that EVs can work. The amazing thing is my Kia EV6 is the best car I've ever owned or driven. It makes driving fun. So I get an EV for more environmental reasons and it turns out it is better than any ICE vehicle. Win!

Personally, I have no problem "giving up" buying things or traveling more slowly or not taking long distance trips. I'd rather spend my money on heat pumps and solar panels and EVs than home remodels, gas guzzlers, and a huge house. The things that bring me joy are not things but rather places and wildlife and snow, rivers, nature, etc. Everything is a trade off. I'd rather live a simpler lifestyle than destroy the things I love by voluntarily pursuing a lifestyle that I know leads to the destruction of those things.

**schuss** · 02-01-2023, 07:06 AM

While EVs are important, private passenger cars are only ~16.4% of total emissions and will likely be somewhat hard to move as it's a collective action problem with millions of actors and widely spread certification

**AdironRider** · 02-01-2023, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

Wait. Someone with a boat is pontificating about the possible negative financial implications of owning an EV?

Like it is impossible to separate my scenario from the needs of millions of other people.

This board knows no bounds in their ignorance to how the vast majority live their lives and their financial reality. The vast majority of people do not have remotely near the financial wherewithal to come anywhere near an EV, yet they are being forced upon them. That is my whole point. A 7500 tax credit on a 55k vehicle is a handout to the rich and nothing more, and certainly by no means makes things "affordable".

And my sensationalist comment is strictly relegated to bullshit statements like "you wont be able to drive your Tundra anywhere because the world will end" or "I can't go on a hike without having at least 2 different backup plans due to wildfires". That is sensationalist bullshit and you know it.

And people need to get fucking real about the environmental impact of EV's. Just offshoring it to the third world and claiming its now better just because it is being contained there doesn't make things better, it just gets it out of your backyard. Don't want to offshore it, ok, here is the CEO of one of the few US based lithium mining companies saying, it isn't possible either, and he is going to profit the most off the whole thing so he is pretty inclined to make it work.

https://insideevs.com/news/609121/li...nd-ev-targets/

Or on a worldwide scale, lets forget peak oil, and get on the peak lithium train.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...tric-vehicles/

**mcphee** · 02-01-2023, 08:03 AM

^hey dickfuck, you can buy used EVs for a lot less than 55k. Any mandate of no new ICE to be sold after such and such date doesn’t mean you have to buy a new EV on that date. But you know this so shut the fuck up.

**AdironRider** · 02-01-2023, 08:07 AM

You apparently missed the entire page on conversation on how battery replacements and their five figure price tags negate any savings one would achieve buying a used EV or how high mileage teslas are also requiring motor replacements every 120k miles on top of the batteries. Guess how much one of those cost?

EV's are great for the coastal yuppie with money as a status symbol, but have serious problems with mass market viability. The push should be focused on use cases that make sense. I can get behind public transport (the bus example someone mentioned), or local delivery trucks ala Rivian and Amazon, or yes, the quarter of US households where having a dedicated local commuting vehicle makes financial sense.

**Mazderati** · 02-01-2023, 08:08 AM

Starts discussion with sensationalist headline then complains about sensationalism.

Average new car price has topped 48k for the past several months. What is 55k after a 7.5k tax credit?

What an idiot.

**mcphee** · 02-01-2023, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

You apparently missed the entire page on conversation on how battery replacements and their five figure price tags negate any savings one would achieve buying a used EV or how high mileage teslas are also requiring motor replacements every 120k miles on top of the batteries. Guess how much one of those cost?

EV's are great for the coastal yuppie with money as a status symbol, but have serious problems with mass market viability. The push should be focused on use cases that make sense. I can get behind public transport (the bus example someone mentioned), or local delivery trucks ala Rivian and Amazon, or yes, the quarter of US households where having a dedicated local commuting vehicle makes financial sense.

Eat shit

**AdironRider** · 02-01-2023, 08:12 AM

Average EV cost is 66k and climbing (unless it is a Tesla). That is 40% more than the average ICE vehicle.

**Mazderati** · 02-01-2023, 08:16 AM

Pulls number out of ass to make an argument then realizes number doesn't make his argument so changes number to make his argument fit.

What an idiot.

**AdironRider** · 02-01-2023, 08:25 AM

Do you need me to google the average sale price of EV's in 2022 for you dipshit?

**Mazderati** · 02-01-2023, 08:27 AM

Google the 55k number you originally pulled out of your ass.

**schuss** · 02-01-2023, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

Average EV cost is 66k and climbing (unless it is a Tesla). That is 40% more than the average ICE vehicle.

Average price always skews high because there's no cars that cost 0.
I did a quick search on cars.com and there are 50 new EV's ready to go under 40k. General average new car price is 48k (I know, nuts). The average EV price was actually 65k, which pretty much matches luxury cars, which is what most EV's are at this point.
They're more expensive right now because they generally have a higher up front capital cost and lower running costs as well as being new tech, which is always more expensive initially.