Ukraine

[MultiVerse]

And it sounds like 100+ Leopards could be coming to UKR from pretty much every except Germany if Germany would just say OK.

So idk, maybe send a couple parade Abrams so Germany can meet its requirement to send Leopards.

This is not just about LEO tanks. So far, Germany hesitates and slows the process every step of the way. They are helping, there's no denying that's the case, but they are going about it in complete denial of the fact Ukrainian victory is vital to European peace and security. The problem is:

1. Ukraine doesn't have that "time"
2. Leadership decsions fall exclusively on the United States

Like Leroy, it's all about themselves. Not all, of course. For far too many though their thought process is self-absorbed and self-centered. It's almost entirely about internal domestic politics.

[TBS]

If only his genius could be recognized. Such a tragedy.

Coffee all over iPad screen and burning nostrils - thanks

[twat]

So the US is sending tanks now. It is all a big show or all complete chaos.

[ex-powderbroker]

those tanks may make sense to sit north of kyiv and deter another incursion of russians from belarus. hopefully german will stick to their word and send (and allow) the leopard transfer to go to the front lines in the east to help stop the pillaging and raping. once the pillaging and raping is over i think they’ll have to, you know, go home. that’s the easiest and quickest way to end the war.

[summit]

those [US M1} tanks may make sense to sit north of kyiv and deter another incursion of russians from belarus. hopefully german will stick to their word and send (and allow) the leopard transfer to go to the front lines in the east to help stop the pillaging and raping. once the pillaging and raping is over i think they’ll have to, you know, go home. that’s the easiest and quickest way to end the war.

All of This

[uglymoney]

Germans will send once the US does. Their fear of Putin has made them cower behind big brother's coat tails.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

[summit]

Deutschland, Deutschland UNTER alles

[neufox47]

I’m pleased to see Ukrain is continuing to clean up corruption and its tolerance for corruption appears to have dropped to almost zero. Zelensky and the government are taking it seriously and appear to understand that any corruption will cause the tankies and isolationists to undermine support for Ukraine. I thought this quote summed up the change in Ukraine towards corruption.

“A new social contract emerged during the war between civil society, journalists and the government: We will not criticize you like we did before the war, but your reaction to any scandal and ineffectiveness must be as tough as possible,” Mr. Shabunin said. “The position of the defense minister has broken this agreement.”

I thought this quote summed up the change during the last year and it is worth repeating that Zelensky had been cleaning up corruption since before the war. I’m sure the Rod’s of the world will use this news as evidence that all our aid is being misappropriated and more reason to allow the rape and conquest of Ukraine to proceed post haste, but it truly should be viewed as a positive. Corruption exists in all governments, and anytime officials are held accountable it should be applauded.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/01...e=articleShare


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[twat]

Deutschland, Deutschland UNTER alles

So germany is sending tanks too.
4 different models of tanks & ukrainian stock & russian trophy tanks

So society can demand f-16 and longe range rockets now

[LongShortLong]

So society can demand f-16 and longe range rockets now

Current package contains longer range rockets. F-16 training is ongoing.

[leroy jenkins]

Leroy is the best. He just does the same thing every few months. He will throw up his hands dramatically here soon and take a multiple month break again.

Awww thanks.

There was never a dramatic throwing up of hands. More a bored wandering off.

[subtle plague]

So is Scholz a strategic Genius now that the US wants to send Tanks as well? Suddenly there seems to be fuel that works and the ukrainians have turned into wonder mechanics that can mircaculously maintain the M1s? Or were that all some near Scholz level evasive reasons?


Btw. Isn't jet fuel available in large quantities in Europe? I mean we're pretty backward compared to the mighty us of a but we mastered the Art of flight recently.... and it is said that some of our 500million citizens may have flown with this crazy invention called airplanes.

[oldnew_guy]

Why is everyone so hung up on JP4 as the fuel for the M1A1 when everywhere I look it can apparently run on basically any fuel commonly available like kerosene, gasoline, diesel, etc?

Harder to maintain? Needs a conversion kit?

[bennymac]

South Africa to side with Russia on push for redesigned global order

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...-global-order/

South Africa will join Russia in pushing for a “redesigned global order” in which a greater role is played by non-Western organizations such as the BRICS partnership, South Africa’s foreign minister says.

Naledi Pandor made the comment on Monday as she met Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov at the beginning of his latest tour of African capitals. Russia and South Africa are two of the five members of BRICS, along with China, India and Brazil.

The war in Ukraine has revitalized Moscow’s campaign for new organizations to compete with Western-dominated blocs such as the Group of Seven. There is growing talk that BRICS could expand within the next year to include possible new entrants such as Nigeria, Egypt, Venezuela, Iran, Argentina or Saudi Arabia.

----

ah so this makes sense as to where patriots like Ohno Este get their marching orders from

[cspringsposer]

Why is everyone so hung up on JP4 as the fuel for the M1A1 when everywhere I look it can apparently run on basically any fuel commonly available like kerosene, gasoline, diesel, etc?

Harder to maintain? Needs a conversion kit?

Im mostly on the "send Ukraine everything they want/need bandwagon", but I do think there are legitimate concerns with the Abrams (not enough to not send them though). When I served as an infantry dismount in a mechanized infantry unit we almost always had an Abrams assigned to each platoon of Bradleys (Bradleys are screwed in a fight against most other armor/tanks). Im not a tanker or a mechanic, but those damn Abrams were always broke, stuck in the mud, or waiting for/out of fuel every time we needed them. "Every time" is probably a slight exaggeration, but my main memory of operating around Abrams is they were incredibly high maintenance and mostly broken down.

[Cono Este]

Doomsday clock moved. Just a bunch of stupid Nobel winning intellectual types, obviously on Putins payroll.

https://news.yahoo.com/doomsday-cloc...154817908.html

[ex-powderbroker]

"Russia's thinly veiled threats to use nuclear weapons remind the world that escalation of the conflict -- by accident, intention, or miscalculation -- is a terrible risk," it said.

[Mazderati]

SA seems like a weird nation on the whole.

[subtle plague]

SA seems like a weird nation on the whole.

They gave us elon Musk, their Ministers keep heaps of money in a couch and believed( its been 10 or 15years?) That sex with virgins can treat Aids.

That's all you need to know.

[mcphee]

Oh no! Not the doomsday clock. Lol. Lmao.

[neufox47]

Doomsday clock moved. Just a bunch of stupid Nobel winning intellectual types, obviously on Putins payroll.

https://news.yahoo.com/doomsday-cloc...154817908.html

What makes you think the world will be safer if Russia conquers Ukraine? I think it is quite obvious that the world is safer if Russia fails, is driven from Ukrainian land and the regime suffers mightily if not collapses from it. That would be a major disincentive to any other countries, see China, from pursuing imperialistic goals.

[highangle]

SA seems like a weird nation on the whole.

Capetown is in 33S, 18E

Extend a line from there through the center of the earth, you come out in the North Atlantic off the Moroccan coast about 35 miles WNW of the Portuguese island of Madeira, home of the fortified wine of the same name.

[summit]

Why is everyone so hung up on JP4 as the fuel for the M1A1 when everywhere I look it can apparently run on basically any fuel commonly available like kerosene, gasoline, diesel, etc?

Harder to maintain? Needs a conversion kit?

The gas turbine engine of the M1 is multifuel and it has major advantages in power to weight allowing it to drive the very heavily armored M1.

The diesel in the Leopard 2 is, however, almost 3x more efficient.

0.3mpg for the M1 vs 0.8mpg for the Leopard. Turbines also have higher idle consumption. Turbine maintenance is different that diesel servicing.

The M1 may even be less powerful, efficient or require more frequent servicing when you don't use ideal fuel.

That said, the older T-80s that the Ukrainians (and Russians) have were mostly gas turbine, and I assume are still in operation. Newer Ukrainian T-80s are diesel.

[highangle]

What makes you think the world will be safer if Russia conquers Ukraine? I think it is quite obvious that the world is safer if Russia fails, is driven from Ukrainian land and the regime suffers mightily if not collapses from it. That would be a major disincentive to any other countries, see China, from pursuing imperialistic goals.

Bro you gotta know Colonel East lives square in the crosshairs of BannoDuganism [male, 85ish IQ, written English, internet connection] and starts every day with three fingers of straight RT via FB.

[summit]

Sounds like Germany is now agreeing to send around 40ish Leopards and let other countries send theirs. If you believe the UK Daily Mail.... I won't hold my breath.