If only there was something we could do...

[subtle plague]

Attachment 417355

leroy is the new king of whataboutism..

I didn't mean to intrude into a very American thread because it's not fun like trucks or healthcare or free education(thoigh i must admit....lately leroy always tempts me), but from an outside perspective it seemed weird to sacrifice the American youth for a "fictious future fascist evil government we will have to rebel against so we need full auto assault rifles" or is this some kind of Red dawn argument?

[ötzi]

It's what a large percentage of our population has been brainwashed into believing by those who benefit from the current system. Propaganda works.

[::: :::]

No, that is correct
It’s exactly that stupid
It is essentially the right to recreate with guns
Go read up in the GUNS thread
Everyone is excited about that new slightly cooler handgun they just got or the rifle they dialed in
& not one fucking word about the collective responsibility the gun community bears for the culture of killing in the US

[schuss]

I didn't mean to intrude into a very American thread because it's not fun like trucks or healthcare or free education(thoigh i must admit....lately leroy always tempts me), but from an outside perspective it seemed weird to sacrifice the American youth for a "fictious future fascist evil government we will have to rebel against so we need full auto assault rifles" or is this some kind of Red dawn argument?

I'm American. I got my first rifle at 10 because my dad said I'd shoot my eye out with a bb gun. We live in a rural area. Was taught gun safety and went to hunter safety courses before I was a teenager. Shooting was one of our hobbies as we had enough land to have a makeshift range setup out back. I say this to qualify my next statement as someone with more than a passing familiarity with firearms and their uses.
Gun fetishism is fucking nutball crazytown and I don't get it. We got a bunch of SKS' cheap in the late 80's (basically a semi-auto AK) and that was more than enough. My uncle had a dealer/armorer license (forget what it is) so he had a full auto for a bit. Waste of money and ammo, but fun for a time or two. Modern assault rifles are amazing, but have absolutely zero place in normal society. Unfortunately we have tons of ra-ra folks that subsist on a media diet of conspiracy theories, Call of Duty games and action movies, so they see it as "necessary" and plenty of enablers out there all too happy to appease them for a vote, regardless of how many people it kills.

[Bobby Stainless]

Full auto assault rifles are highly regulated and very expensive. Takes about 4 months and 30k to buy one. If not properly registered, then they carry a 10 years in prison and a 10k fine. Is there something else that needs to be added?

[skiJ]

two thoughts -

could we end the internet / mail order sale of weaponry that in at least two of these cases, these boys have used to build their personal armories to line-out their video game inspired dreams (?)

could we end the sale of assault weapons to private citizens (?)
These weapons are not designed for hunting/sporting (/defensive) purposes - these weapons are designed for killing people.


I object to the characterization of these killers as 'hormonal kids' -
hormonal kids do not seek-out concentrations of the most vulnerable groups ( school children, church-goers, ... ) for killing.

There is a post up-thread that identifies these "murderers" as what they are, but then suggests the solution is to medicate these individuals while allowing them to remain circulating in the population...

no.

kids don't need personal armories, and parents that enable these situations are not without Responsibility
( I wanted to say, parents that allow kids to acquired personal armories are not 'innocent', but I have no interest in a lawyerly argument. my claim is a matter of values and morals. )


a couple posts up-thread seem to imply securing schools is impossible or folly ; I do not agree --
while absolute Safety may not be possible, restricting access is pursuable.
The entry is surrounded by glass windows ?
replace the windows with concrete block.
A cylinder lock was shot-out (?)
a cylinder lock is probably not sufficient 'restriction' against an armed assault.

... the possibility of crashing a vehicle through a secure entry (?)
do you remember the placement of concrete barriers ( following 9-11)?
Many are still in-place.


This is not going to be solved quickly - but I absolutely believe it is a situation that can be improved over time.
attend school board meeting ; attend school functions ;
Ask that school Safety be a topic ;
volunteer.

and Please ! Be an involved parent. Please set a great example !

my condolences to any touched by this senseless violence.

tj

[schuss]

Full auto assault rifles are highly regulated and very expensive. Takes about 4 months and 30k to buy one. If not properly registered, then they carry a 10 years in prison and a 10k fine. Is there something else that needs to be added?

And what about bump stocks, firing conversions and other methods that speed up semi auto fire rates? Those are insanely common.
Come on man.

[leroy jenkins]

And what about bump stocks, firing conversions and other methods that speed up semi auto fire rates? Those are insanely common.
Come on man.

I've never seen one of those in real life. Insanely common. I've never encountered one.


I'm not sure why blame the inanimate objects that can't change anyones brain chemistry is any more logical than blaming the meds, but hey you guys are going to do what you find emotionally gratifying.I don't think you guys give a half a shit about solving any problems. I think you just get hard at the idea of taking peoples guns away because thats how you are.

You guys just get hard at the thought of more laws less freedom, tons of cops searching schoolkids backpacks and arresting them for non dangerous offenses as a result. Two posts above me just advocated for removing all windows from the exterior of schools and placing anti tank barricades around them. Jesus fucking christ that will harm more kids than mass shooters do.


So the gun industry is great to demonize, but the pharma industry is a sacred cow. You guys just say what you find emotionally gratifying. I just don't get why the pharma industry has their dick in al your mouths.

I bet you guys don't even let your kids go trick or treating any more.

The biggest flaw in many of your ideas about guns is they just aren't going to happen. "ban everything but bolt actions" is so fucking far out there and radical all that idea is going to do is create division and have a negative effect on our country as a whole. I think thats what you get off on though. 78 people die every day from opioid overdose, but yea pharma companies cant' be criticized because when people do so I think of them as right wing conspiracy types and don't like those people so instead I'll just waaaah wahhh about my fellow citizens being able to own guns.

Personally I trust my fellow citizens more than the government. I think we should hand out an AR15 and a green card to every immigrant crossing our southern border.

[Bobby Stainless]

And what about bump stocks, firing conversions and other methods that speed up semi auto fire rates? Those are insanely common.
Come on man.

I was just pointing out that fully automatic weapons are heavily regulated. He seems to think they are readily available.

What are gun owners with "assault rifles" supposed to do? Sell them?

[Cisco Kid]

Leave the semantics for another . It's not a good look.

[The SnowShow]

The moment of silence in Dallas tonight before the game made me sick. I don’t expect a bunch of Texans to turn into Democrats but god damn hold your GOP representatives accountable or STFU with this nonsense like you give a shit. I really don’t get it.

This.

[Bobby Stainless]

Leave the semantics for another . It's not a good look.

What's not a good look is gun control types that can't properly explain themselves. If you are going to negotiate around with peoples gun rights, then at least gain some knowledge on the topic.

I'd be all for a Class 3 designation of the 10 million or so assault rifles in the US.

10,000,000 x $200.00 tax stamp = $2,000,000,000.00 in tax revenue

I would also suggest that schools get serious about access control. The most achievable and logical solution is to lock school doors. Yes it can happen elsewhere, but at least it won't be in a school.

[skiJ]

I appreciate that the legal acquisition of an automatic assault rifle is an expensive, time-consuming process, Bobby- And
as schuss has illustrated above, there are clearly other markets.

"readily available" is a subjective phrase that likely has different meanings to the author than to the reader.

as long as a boy can acquire weapons and equipment that allow him to invade a school and kill twenty other people, we have a problem ( that needs a solution. )


tj

[Cisco Kid]

What's not a good look is gun control types that can't properly explain themselves. If you are going to negotiate around with peoples gun rights, then at least gain some knowledge on the topic.

That schtick gets old. I hear it after every mass shooting. NRA has done NO education like the used to. Deflection of an customer objection is a cool trick when you're selling a car. Keep it in the showroom.

[schuss]

I was just pointing out that fully automatic weapons are heavily regulated. He seems to think they are readily available.

What are gun owners with "assault rifles" supposed to do? Sell them?

Yes. Plenty of great examples of gun buyback programs. Or they go out and get the right license to keep it. I think we're all in agreement that no one NEEDS them on a day to day basis.
Sample from Australia where they bought back 650k guns:
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...rearms_Amnesty

[mcphee]

Class 3 designation for assault rifles, federal, state, and local registration upon ownership on all firearms that needs to transfer when sold, insurance requirement on all firearms.

[neckdeep]

I was just pointing out that fully automatic weapons are heavily regulated. He seems to think they are readily available.

They are. Its becoming easy to get auto sears on the net. Bump stocks are about as obsolete as a rotary phone. Welcome to the next wave of terror on the street, the "glock switch". Spray and pray has never been easier and cheaper to obtain and its about to get a lot worse.

[Bobby Stainless]

That schtick gets old. I hear it after every mass shooting. NRA has done NO education like the used to. Deflection of an customer objection is a cool trick when you're selling a car. Keep it in the showroom.

The current strategy seems to be working great. Well done.

[Bobby Stainless]

They are. Its becoming easy to get auto sears on the net.

That'll get you 10 years and 10k fine. It's known as an unregistered machine gun.

[Bobby Stainless]

Yes. Plenty of great examples of gun buyback programs. Or they go out and get the right license to keep it. I think we're all in agreement that no one NEEDS them on a day to day basis.
Sample from Australia where they bought back 650k guns:
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...rearms_Amnesty

I mean here in the US. There are no gun buyback programs. What are "assault rifle" owners supposed to do with them in our current reality?

[Peruvian]

A quick search confirms that the US is indeed an outlier in terms of mental illness and does have more than the average.

Don’t mistake lower mental health related outcomes to a higher mental illness rate.

[schuss]

I've never seen one of those in real life. Insanely common. I've never encountered one.


I'm not sure why blame the inanimate objects that can't change anyones brain chemistry is any more logical than blaming the meds, but hey you guys are going to do what you find emotionally gratifying.I don't think you guys give a half a shit about solving any problems. I think you just get hard at the idea of taking peoples guns away because thats how you are.

You guys just get hard at the thought of more laws less freedom, tons of cops searching schoolkids backpacks and arresting them for non dangerous offenses as a result. Two posts above me just advocated for removing all windows from the exterior of schools and placing anti tank barricades around them. Jesus fucking christ that will harm more kids than mass shooters do.


So the gun industry is great to demonize, but the pharma industry is a sacred cow. You guys just say what you find emotionally gratifying. I just don't get why the pharma industry has their dick in al your mouths.

I bet you guys don't even let your kids go trick or treating any more.

The biggest flaw in many of your ideas about guns is they just aren't going to happen. "ban everything but bolt actions" is so fucking far out there and radical all that idea is going to do is create division and have a negative effect on our country as a whole. I think thats what you get off on though. 78 people die every day from opioid overdose, but yea pharma companies cant' be criticized because when people do so I think of them as right wing conspiracy types and don't like those people so instead I'll just waaaah wahhh about my fellow citizens being able to own guns.

Personally I trust my fellow citizens more than the government. I think we should hand out an AR15 and a green card to every immigrant crossing our southern border.

Guns are tools. Tools for killing things. There is no reason for a private citizen to have a tool for killing more than deer or wildlife. I have no hard on for regulations, I just see a lot of people dying needlessly so gun fetishists can have their tacticool toys. That's not an appropriate tradeoff.
Ban all guns? Nah, that disrespects a lot of the appropriate aforementioned tool usage for hunting and wildlife population control (as well as home defense with shotguns if you want to go there).

Per you "The biggest flaw in many of your ideas about guns is they just aren't going to happen. "ban everything but bolt actions" is so fucking far out there and radical all that idea is going to do is create division and have a negative effect on our country as a whole." - Radical to who? You, as a gun fetishist. That's it. What fundamental need do you have for an AR15 that a bolt action cannot satisfy? Seriously. Not some imaginary situation you gin up, but real shit that happens on at least a yearly basis that has citable data or statistics that justify the need. The idea that something like that is seen as radical likely means you're part of the problem. Maybe you should learn how to aim instead of jerking it to your rifle.

[ColMan]

That'll get you 10 years and 10k fine. It's known as an unregistered machine gun.

The law is "up to 10 years". More likely 4 years, out in 2.

[Bobby Stainless]

Guns are tools. Tools for killing things. There is no reason for a private citizen to have a tool for killing more than deer or wildlife. I have no hard on for regulations, I just see a lot of people dying needlessly so gun fetishists can have their tacticool toys. That's not an appropriate tradeoff.
Ban all guns? Nah, that disrespects a lot of the appropriate aforementioned tool usage for hunting and wildlife population control (as well as home defense with shotguns if you want to go there).

Per you "The biggest flaw in many of your ideas about guns is they just aren't going to happen. "ban everything but bolt actions" is so fucking far out there and radical all that idea is going to do is create division and have a negative effect on our country as a whole." - Radical to who? You, as a gun fetishist. That's it. What fundamental need do you have for an AR15 that a bolt action cannot satisfy? Seriously. Not some imaginary situation you gin up, but real shit that happens on at least a yearly basis that has citable data or statistics that justify the need. The idea that something like that is seen as radical likely means you're part of the problem. Maybe you should learn how to aim instead of jerking it to your rifle.

An outright ban is highly unlikely and therefore kind of pointless to talk about. In the case all "assault rifles" were banned, the best case scenario would be a 3% drop in the number of firearms in the US and a 1% drop in deaths. That's best case.

My idea of a Class 3 designation is much better. Tax revenue every time the gun changes hands.

[TNKen]

And what about bump stocks, firing conversions and other methods that speed up semi auto fire rates? Those are insanely common.
Come on man.

All now illegal per executive order through the ATF. Doesn't stop criminals and depraved minds from doing anything. And how many bump stocks have you seen in real life. I am a firearms collector and have never used or much less seen one.

We can't fix morality, depraved minds, and attention seekers by passing laws.