"Investing" in stuff

[old goat]

Like Big Steve said a few pages back--tools. Mine have paid off ten times over.
As far as being a landlord--if you can make money by turning the thing over to a property manager then go for it. Otherwise AFAIC it's an enormous pain in the ass. There are a lot of easier and less aggravating ways to make money. Busking for example. Neither a landlord nor a renter be.

[KenJongIll]

Pork belly

[4matic]

Everyone so enamored by rental property. If you buy right it's great. If you don't I don't see the advantage for all the headache. Buying a rental in 2011? Sure. Now? I don't know.

$100k in 30y muni bond with proceeds reinvested and held to maturity would be worth almost $500k

You all want to risk pit bulls and crack houses?

[skifishbum]

Yet with all your freedom and riches, you choose to hang out here, on the internet, with us. You could be literally be doing anything else right now. But here you are arguing with strangers about who has got life figured out.

it called most exstreme skier in the office retirement syndrome
usually incurable

[GeezerSteve]

., . . that's a risk that many seem willing to take.

Do you actually know "many people" who buy appliances for their personal residence and defraud the IRS by falsely claiming that they are to be used in a rental property? I've been in the game for 30 years and haven't seen it. If writing off a $3000 refrigerator or stove as a biz expense for a $750/mo. apartment aint an IRS audit flag, I can't imagine what would be.

[dunfree]

Yes, that may be true and that's a risk that many seem willing to take. Discuss potential and ramifications with one's own accountant...

I submit that's like the Montana classic/exotic car registration. Seemingly many are willing to take it, the successful number fewer. The size of your bank account/willingness to spend on lawyers may determine success.

he probably does. petty fraud is the province of property owners now.

OT - seriously, what skis would be worth anything?

In the past, seasonal arbitrage. Buy in the summer/spring when supply is high prices are low, resell in late fall winter when/if demand picks up. Or buy on proform/shopform and flip for close too what you paid.

Like many of these games it's not a way to wealthy, it's a way to negate a cash drain.

[4matic]

Do you actually know "many people" who buy appliances for their personal residence and defraud the IRS by falsely claiming that they are to be used in a rental property? I've been in the game for 30 years and haven't seen it.

What's the risk for a small player? Taxes owed and penalties?

[4matic]

Pork belly

De-listed years ago. FCOJ still around.

[geo039]

Frozen orange juice

[54-46]

What's the risk for a small player? Taxes owed and penalties?

For folks with a W2 paycheck and 1-2 rental properties, why would IRS audit them?

[54-46]

Do you actually know "many people" who buy appliances for their personal residence and defraud the IRS by falsely claiming that they are to be used in a rental property? I've been in the game for 30 years and haven't seen it. If writing off a $3000 refrigerator or stove as a biz expense for a $750/mo. apartment aint an IRS audit flag, I can't imagine what would be.

Most of the half dozen people with whom I discuss rental properties claim they to do it. Houses here rent for $3500/mo on up. 2BR condos are ~$2K on up. Maybe less of a red flag?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/...labilityMode=0

Netting another $2000/year on a $100K investment matters to some, and to others that 2% gain on their return isn't worth the risk.

The way it's been explained to me, the IRS likely has bigger fish to fry than auditing someone on a W-2 with 1-2 rentals. If the risk is greater than that based on your experience, then that's a valuable data point.

[digitaldeath]

Everyone so enamored by rental property. If you buy right it's great. If you don't I don't see the advantage for all the headache. Buying a rental in 2011? Sure. Now? I don't know.

$100k in 30y muni bond with proceeds reinvested and held to maturity would be worth almost $500k

You all want to risk pit bulls and crack houses?

Drug use on the rise

[GeezerSteve]

What's the risk for a small player? Taxes owed and penalties?

Tax fraud is a felony, so imprisonment is a risk although 99% of small biz cases are handled administratively, not as criminal matters. As a practical matter, the bigger risk is that the red flag leads to a major audit, possibly for several years. Those who are defrauding the IRS re personal appliances are likely involved in other tax evasion or tax fraud.

The way it's been explained to me, the IRS likely has bigger fish to fry than auditing someone on a W-2 with 1-2 rentals. If the risk is greater than that based on your experience, then that's a valuable data point.

Well, if they have rental property they are at least filing a Schedule E, so in the eyes of the IRS they are business people. Yeah, I acknowledge that the IRS is understaffed and overworked, but OTOH I've seen too many small businesses get a red flag audit the eventually opens up a big can of worms.

[54-46]

Tax fraud is a felony, so imprisonment is a risk although 99% of small biz cases are handled administratively, not as criminal matters. As a practical matter, the bigger risk is that the red flag leads to a major audit, possibly for several years. Those who are defrauding the IRS re personal appliances are likely involved in other tax evasion or tax fraud.

Well, if they have rental property they are at least filing a Schedule E, so in the eyes of the IRS they are business people. Yeah, I acknowledge that the IRS is understaffed and overworked, but OTOH I've seen too many small businesses get a red flag audit the eventually opens up a big can of worms.

The people I know who say they do this are pretty straight arrows: longtime marriages, longstanding careers, etc. Not big risk takers. Not selling drugs or anything. Maybe they shouldn't do it, but they've been doing it a long time. $2-3K a year over 20 years matters to some folks, but maybe they should take on less risk is what I hear you saying.

[BmillsSkier]

I dunno, in the title he doesn't say investing, he says "investing". maybe he's just looking for shit to blow money on.

In that case I'm sure we can come up with some faaaaaantastic ideas.

[Tips^Up]

Keep your tips up?

I agree

[Danno]

I'd like to have rental property, but the problem (for me anyhow) is that if its not your full time home, mortgage companies want 30% down, which is prohibitive.

The way to do it, at least to start, is to buy a property to move into (and rent the current place), you won't need the same down payment. Stay there a couple of years, repeat (hopefully).

I could have made this happen, but the wife didn't want to move into a basic rental property (best we could afford).

[old goat]

If claiming a $916 million tax loss aint an IRS audit flag, I can't imagine what would be.

FIFY

[BmillsSkier]

The way to do it, at least to start, is to buy a property to move into (and rent the current place), you won't need the same down payment. Stay there a couple of years, repeat (hopefully).

I could have made this happen, but the wife didn't want to move into a basic rental property (best we could afford).

I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Cheerios but it's not that simple. You'll face Diamond Joe's problem no matter what if you're using bank financing for any additional property purchase after your already (assuming financed one - or face arduous underwriting hurdles).

Assuming you own a place and want to rent it out and want to buy a new owner occupied property (and will need to mortgage it and the one you're leaving still has a mortgage on it) the bank will require either proof that the old one is rented, the new one is not going to be the rental (substantial value increase and not in a vacation area) or an increased down payment as DJ stated.

Long story short, if any mortgage other than the one you're trying to get shows up on credit (and it's not a home that you're selling) the bank will make you either pay more or jump through some serious hoops to make sure it's a rental or o/o (which in some cases means higher rates/more down payment/guarantor, etc).

ymmv.

[stfu&gbtw]

If you have any brains at all, invest in learning to do something that you reasonably enjoy and that earns money. I've been what I think of as "semi retired" for almost a decade... Turning 40 shortly. Made a bunch of money building networks and chose a sustainable lifestyle in a place with skyrocketing property values... Monthly nut is basically nothing, and our entirely traditional low-mid risk investments keep churning. But the real pay off is that my wife and I still enjoy doing what we used to do full time, and will periodically get involved in a project and net a couple hundred k.

The moral of that story is, go with what you know. I'm no investor. I understand economics and how they drive the capital funding for network infrastructure... And I've been intimately involved with the development of the internet. I also have never for the life of me been able to predict what people have wanted to use a computer for, nor what they will want to use one for next. I was on IRC and BBS dial up networks for years... But social media? Never saw it coming. Didn't invest in MS, Apple, Facebook... I was a beta tester for Google and didn't invest. I couldn't possibly count the money I've left on the table. But I did manage to make a pile of money building the networks that let people use those services.

Anyway, the point is, you don't have to be lucky, nor do you have to be an "insider". Open your eyes, find something that needs to be done, and learn how to do it. The world is full of problems... Fix one. Figure out your priorities, structure your life around them. Earn more money than you need and save the rest. Some of the wealthiest guys I know made their money doing underwater welding. Another guy runs a truck washing business. Not exactly rocket surgery... "Getting rich" is for suckers. Just because the dude hit the jackpot on a slot machine doesn't make him any less stupid for playing in the first place.

[jono]

I'd add that if you have a high deductible health plan, with an HSA, I think maxing out the HSA is even more advantageous than that same money in an IRA or 401k. Not taxed going in, can invest while in the HSA, not taxed coming out (if used on qualified medical expenses, but after age 65 (I think) it can be withdrawn like from any IRA. IIRC, HSA contributions are $6550 max for a couple for 2016.

But if you can't max out all your tax advantaged options, start with 401k and contribute up to the matching max, at the very least. It's free money from your employer.

^This. Except I believe the max for a married couple is $6750 for 2016. Health care costs are the biggest unknown when guessing about expenses. But being able to access some or all of the HSA's untaxed funds whenever those expenses might happen is better than an IRA with some future tax rate applied upon withdrawal or today's rate applied up front. Take a look at your policy's out of pocket maximum and if you couldn't cover that for three to five years running you should contribute more. Above that the worst case scenario is that you convert some remaining funds to an IRA in retirement, which is a win. A huge win. HSA funds can even be used to pay COBRA premiums IMS, so lots of ways to take that money back out tax-free at any age. No fraud required, just a little downside luck.

[Timberridge]

Robots...invest in robots. They're taking over the frying industry.

[Edgnar]

Invest in your kids education and Big Oil.

Big oil might not be such a good bet. I don't see oil prices bouncing back anytime soon, and even the industry's projections show declining demand in the next 15 years.

[BmillsSkier]

Robots...invest in robots. They're taking over the frying industry.

Our Burger King will be pleased.

Blurred?

[54-46]

Sneakers. Guys like Colin Kaepernick who have more $ than brains will buy the cool editions at a markup.