I-70 is F@&KED

[karpiel]

Another crazy idea I have? Close I70 for construction. Set a target date for construction to begin April 1, 2017. In the meantime, improve 285 to four lanes up and over Kenosha Pass. Pave Guanella and Corona Pass. Get the high country and Front Range communities prepared years in advance. Heck, get the construction crews to offer full time employment to the folks in Idaho Springs, Georgetown, Empire, etc. to keep their wallets full. April 1, 2017, shut down the interstate from Floyd Hill to Dillon. With no traffic Armageddon to worry about, construction can speed by. Bring every freaking work crew in a 1000 mile radius into Clear Creek and Straight Creek Canyon and get the shit done by December 2017….

I like that idea.

On the tolling, don't think it's a realistic option.

One way it could work, however, would be whatever fee goes straight to the county, to do as they wish. $5 to go through CC during peak times, another $5 for Summit and $5 for Vail.

Would help compensate for the extra wear to "shortcut" roads and policing required on them during peak traffic.

[rmnpsplitter]

I think that idea is really crazy and in no way would it work. Maybe I'm not understanding the way that you are proposing it but are you saying that the interstate would just be closed altogether for 7 months? Do you really think that they could complete an overhaul of 100 miles of interstate in 7 months? Not to mention all of the businesses that would lose revenue from having no influx of guests for that time. Offer jobs to people to keep wallets full? Pretty sure they already have ways to keep wallets full that work for them and arent going to want to go work on a construction crew on I70.

The only thing that will work is to improve the road in phases. Start with the major congestions points and work those areas as top priority. Work could be done on weekdays and at night to help alleviate traffic mess. Other than that, all other ideas are really fucking stupid. Someone else mentioned it earlier but it is really the only feasible solution.

[guroo270]

No, I think the point that goes mostly ignored that is the real point, is that better roads that accommodate more traffic will just attract more people, and you homos will still be bitching and moaning about how much traffic sucks with similar travel times. It's science. More voluminous roads attract more people to an area, they don't alleviate traffic.

An enlightened society is not one where even the poor can afford their own vehicles, but where the wealthy take mass transit.

[hatchgreenchile]

I think that idea is really crazy and in no way would it work. Maybe I'm not understanding the way that you are proposing it but are you saying that the interstate would just be closed altogether for 7 months? Do you really think that they could complete an overhaul of 100 miles of interstate in 7 months? Not to mention all of the businesses that would lose revenue from having no influx of guests for that time. Offer jobs to people to keep wallets full? Pretty sure they already have ways to keep wallets full that work for them and arent going to want to go work on a construction crew on I70.

The only thing that will work is to improve the road in phases. Start with the major congestions points and work those areas as top priority. Work could be done on weekdays and at night to help alleviate traffic mess. Other than that, all other ideas are really fucking stupid. Someone else mentioned it earlier but it is really the only feasible solution.

Yep, close the entire thing down. Priority 1 is Floyd Hill to Dillon. 43 miles. I’m no engineering wiz, but I’d imagine that highway construction moves exponentially faster when there’s no traffic around.

Look at it this way. Right now, the 3-4 miles of reconstruction from Idaho Springs to US6 will take 1 year and cause pretty bad delays from April to December. At that pace, you’re looking at 10-15 years to rebuild up to SummCo. What’s the economic value of that? 10-15 years of delays and versus a shutdown. It may be closer that we think.

As I said, get 285 to 4 lanes, and Corona and Guanella Pass paved. Long term, 285 needs it anyway. That helps minimizes the burden. Just an idea, but I think a shutdown would appeal to plenty more people than a decade of traffic backups that make Glenwood Canyon look like a cakewalk.

[hatchgreenchile]

No, I think the point that goes mostly ignored that is the real point, is that better roads that accommodate more traffic will just attract more people, and you homos will still be bitching and moaning about how much traffic sucks with similar travel times. It's science. More voluminous roads attract more people to an area, they don't alleviate traffic.

An enlightened society is not one where even the poor can afford their own vehicles, but where the wealthy take mass transit.

Nobody’s disagreeing with you. Mass transit will certainly be part of the solution.

Train seems out of the question. Bottom line, you can’t get a train fast and cheap over the Divide. The technology doesn’t exist, and if it did, Joe Skier wouldn’t be able to afford the ride.

Huge proponent of a rapid bus transit, but you need more lanes to accommodate it. The traffic volume is simply too high to think a solution exists without expanding lane capacity. Long term, busses are the answer.

[BDKeg]

Uh... why would removing that chunk of rock over the twin tunnels at Idaho Springs spur such an angry response? It'd be better to have that be open instead of tunnels. Perhaps you thought I want to blow up Eisenhower/Johnson? Reread... I was saying put a third bore at the divide and use it for whatever... trains/new lanes...

just fuckin with you

[BDKeg]

I feel bad for you front rangers in CO having to deal with that road. Definitely one of the main reasons I ended up Utah instead, trade off for all the quirky culture in Utah we have to deal with i guess. That slog up the 70 is very painful, it's amazing what a huge metro area that road services as the truly only means to get up in the alpine.
Unless you're fortunate to have a decent paying job in the high country or you are a trust funder you are screwed having to deal with that road unless you are ok with the ski bum lifestyle.

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SLC isn't near the size of the metro denver area and yes your access is 10x better...now if you guys could only clean up your air. Do you not have any kind of emissions testing like they in the front range?

[rmnpsplitter]

It's science. More voluminous roads attract more people to an area, they don't alleviate traffic.

False. I'm guessing you just pulled that out of your ass. Most traffic engineers deal with traffic counts, projected counts and level of service of roads/intersections/etc... Im guessing there is a study that has been done to project future counts and needs to meet a reasonable level of service. My guess is that since the times of the shit show are only WEAKends and holidays they haven't had the push yet to get something done. As the base population grows the need will also for full improvement. My thought is to start now and do it piece by piece until you can get a road that operates at a better level of service. Will it cause traffic jams? Yes it will, construction always causes delays. But there are ways to mitigate that such as working only on week days and at nights. Work only during summer months as it is much easier for crews and far more productive.

[rmnpsplitter]

Nobody’s disagreeing with you. Mass transit will certainly be part of the solution.

Train seems out of the question. Bottom line, you can’t get a train fast and cheap over the Divide. The technology doesn’t exist, and if it did, Joe Skier wouldn’t be able to afford the ride.

Huge proponent of a rapid bus transit, but you need more lanes to accommodate it. The traffic volume is simply too high to think a solution exists without expanding lane capacity. Long term, busses are the answer.

I can see the bus idea being a really good one. Have buses that run from Golden to each resort or a mass transit hub in Silverthorne where other buses take people where they need to go. I'm talking a big transit station in Golden. People taking day trips take the buses and they start running them at 5 am and the last one leaves the mountain at 9 pm to come home on a Sat/Sun or holiday. If its affordable, less price than a tank of gas for a full car of people for each trip it would be realistic to think people would get on board with that.

[fantastic_damage]

SLC isn't near the size of the metro denver area and yes your access is 10x better...now if you guys could only clean up your air. Do you not have any kind of emissions testing like they in the front range?

Oh yeah we got emmissions checks every 2 years for newer cars and every year for 10 year old cars. The bad air is only in Winter and it takes the combo of having a lot of snow on the ground melting and a period of high pressure/no storms...yes it gets pretty nasty sometimes.

These air inversions are naturally occuring but unfortunately all the other crap like exhaust, wood burning etc. ends up getting trapped down here. If you all had mountains on the east you would have the same issue with the air. These inversions happen even in places like Whitefish, MT but they dont have the massive population like this place does. Sucks, definitely one drawback to living in a valley with snow and big.mountains. It only takes a storm and it quickly gets pushed out, non existent in the non winter months. Pretty crazy though that we can have the absolute worst air in the country some Winter days!

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[Repoman]

Here's my solution. Two reversible lanes from Golden to Vail. That way you've got 4 lanes going W or E depending on predictable traffic patterns. The two new lanes are only available for vehicles with 4+ people and mass transit. If you meet neither criteria, you pay a toll. Not enough space in Straight Creek or Clear Creek Canyons for 2 more lanes? Find a new route or stack the highway vertically in the cramped quarters. Start up a rapid bus transit from Golden to Dillon and Vail Valley. No stops. No detours through Idaho Springs or Georgetown. Hop on an expanded Summit Stage to any of the resorts in Eagle or Summit and you're good to go.

It wouldn't be for the tourists flying in to DIA. They're not the root cause of traffic problems. It's the weekend warriors from the 4 million people along the Front Range jamming themselves into 2 lanes every Saturday and Sunday.

Fuck the train idea. The terrain is way too rugged. You could build a train, but unless it is cheap AND fast, nobody will take it, and I have a hard time believing a train could be build through the Rockies that goes 100 mph+. Build more lanes..

Pay to play Gents. It's the way of the world. $1000 to travel peak times and so on. Money goes to BHO so can spread it around as he sees fit.

[gretch6364]

Do we know if they are going to open the new tunnel for eastbound traffic for winter and then do the work on the westbound tunnel next summer? Surely they are not going to keep the re-route running during ski season?

[hatchgreenchile]

I’ve heard new tunnel should be good to go early December.

Westbound I70 through CCC will be a pain in the ass. Lots of dynamite to clear more space, or they’ll have to go elevated, like Glenwood Canyon. I think the 2nd option is more likely…

[bean]

They aren't doing anything westbound.

[The Dude]

The last meeting I was at said the tunnel will be open before the end of the year, the project though won't be entirely finished until early summer 2014.

The original plans were to leave westbound alone but there has been some chatter about expanding it to 3 lanes, probably not starting the project until April 2015 though if funding is found.

[skiingislife]

The new Eastbound tunnel is scheduled to be paved during the second week of December beginning on a Tuesday. During this time, the detour will be closed and the westbound tunnel will be used for both east and westbound traffic. It should take three days to complete meaning the new tunnel would be open for the following weekend........That is if everything goes as planned.

[BFD]

having just spent the last 3 weeks in denver I can just repeat what has been posted. You are fucked, deal with it. You can't build enough lanes fast enough to deal with the mess.

[BigMontana]

False. I'm guessing you just pulled that out of your ass. Most traffic engineers deal with traffic counts, projected counts and level of service of roads/intersections/etc... Im guessing there is a study that has been done to project future counts and needs to meet a reasonable level of service. My guess is that since the times of the shit show are only WEAKends and holidays they haven't had the push yet to get something done. As the base population grows the need will also for full improvement. My thought is to start now and do it piece by piece until you can get a road that operates at a better level of service. Will it cause traffic jams? Yes it will, construction always causes delays. But there are ways to mitigate that such as working only on week days and at nights. Work only during summer months as it is much easier for crews and far more productive.

Actually he didn't make that up, it is a well documented scientific fact, ask any actual first year traffic engineer or city planner, they will confirm usage parallels size within months, and nothing ever gets better.

[Blizzard_of_Oz]

Actually he didn't make that up, it is a well documented scientific fact, ask any actual first year traffic engineer or city planner, they will confirm usage parallels size within months, and nothing ever gets better.

Perhaps some caveats may apply, but yeah ... Downs-Thomson Paradox and Braess's Paradox

There are not too many alternatives in the network to I-70, but there is the null case of people currently not going to Summit County due to the traffic, which might (?) invoke the paradox or negate the additional capacity.

A tricky problem seeking an ideal solution.

[Danno]

Yogi Berra had it right? That place is so popular nobody goes there anymore?

[smslavin]

The last meeting I was at said the tunnel will be open before the end of the year, the project though won't be entirely finished until early summer 2014.

The original plans were to leave westbound alone but there has been some chatter about expanding it to 3 lanes, probably not starting the project until April 2015 though if funding is found.

There's a sign on the eastbound lane right before the detour that mentioned a toll lane. I saw it a couple of weeks ago but it's now covered up a bit more securely. Anyone know what that's about?

[The Dude]

They have proposed adding a toll lane for Eastbound 70 from 40/Empire to the newly expanded tunnel. It is essentially the berm of the road being beefed up, but will only be open when needed. They've proposed doing the work next summer if funding can be found.

[The SnowShow]

Imagine how much more crowded the slopes will be with faster access..

my solution: build two or more resorts north or south of I70 so people have other places to go and don't have to all take the same route up. Ie. create a sick ski area at Cameron Pass (don't they get 400+ " a year?), expand Eldora into a real resort, maybe create a faster route to Steamboat. Spread out the skiers more.
Or best yet..close the state

[Shredhead]

They have proposed adding a toll lane for Eastbound 70 from 40/Empire to the newly expanded tunnel. It is essentially the berm of the road being beefed up, but will only be open when needed. They've proposed doing the work next summer if funding can be found.

They should open the berms to buses only and get the resort areas to kick in and subsidize them.

[The SnowShow]

What ever happened to the Breck/Copper/Vail super epic connect gondola?