Hjortleifson has been heard, the DynaFit Vulcan

[marshalolson]

xavierD: realize that dyanfit sells more boots/bindings in norway, a country with a smaller population than colorado, alabama, or minnesota, than it does in all of the US. not to mention they sell way more stuff in the big euro countries: italy, austria, germany, switzerland, france, etc than norway.

that said, i will not buy an AT boot without replaceable soles, otherwise i will have to throw the boot away every season due to use, but i think its funny that the titan and vulcan weigh the same, once you factor in replaceable soles.

[LeeLau]

xavier - marshal's totally bang on. SOME (note emphasis) tour for pow. MANY tour for ski-running and deeply care about weight.

Good point about weight of titan ul vs vulcan

xavierD: realize that dyanfit sells more boots/bindings in norway, a country with a smaller population than colorado, alabama, or minnesota, than it does in all of the US. not to mention they sell way more stuff in the big euro countries: italy, austria, germany, switzerland, france, etc than norway.

that said, i will not buy an AT boot without replaceable soles, otherwise i will have to throw the boot away every season due to use, but i think its funny that the titan and vulcan weigh the same, once you factor in replaceable soles.

[auvgeek]

xavierD: realize that dyanfit sells more boots/bindings in norway, a country with a smaller population than colorado, alabama, or minnesota, than it does in all of the US. not to mention they sell way more stuff in italy, austria, germany, switzerland, france, etc than norway.

american needs are pretty low in comparison, and THERE is where the market needs and demands are really listened to. if you think wildsnow is a bunch of weight weenies, you should hang out at ISPO in munich sometime. wow.

Point taken, but the question is really where the Vulcan fits into the needs of the market. Will the weight-weenies buy a boot that is 1/3 heavier than the TLT5P? Who does Dynafit envision the typical consumer of the Vulcan? Does that consumer base, regardless of where it's located, care about the extra 150 grams? XavierD is arguing no. I'd say, Federico probably knows best...

that said, i will not buy an AT boot without replaceable soles, otherwise i will have to throw the boot away every season due to use.

So it costs $70 to replace the Cochise tech soles. Is this significantly more to have the boots resoled? I can't imagine that's the case...

Personally, I could care less that the boot has no replaceable sole. After trying to Cochise for a while, I've pretty much decided that a "one to rule them all" isn't for me...at least no boot I've tried.

[marshalolson]

i also think this boot is designed to replace the green machine, that is equivalent weight but skis like poo, which is wildly popular in europe.


also, more than just rubber is destroyed when you scramble on rocks. you cannot replace shell material in the boot tip, especially if you do ski these in dukes, alpines, fritshis, etc. $70 is a lot less than $1000.... every season.

[GeezerSteve]

I don't understand the reference to getting injured and how you tie it to a boot - elaborate?

I interpret Xavier as saying that the vast majority of people going on a long tour are going to ski more carefully and slower, and that a softer boot will thus suffice.

Re TLT5 owners who will buy the Vulcan: I'll check out the One or maybe even the Mercury, but likely not the Vulcan. If I buy Ones, I may miss the forefoot flex, which I really like.

Maybe you've overreached with your disparagment of most TLT5 users as "weight weenie gear-queers." Lee Lau calling somebody else a gear queer? I and many other TLT5 owners don't get the gram counting. I (and, I'm pretty sure, GregL, Silas and others around here who ski TLT5s) did not choose the TLT5 primarily for its light weight. I chose it for its tourability, walkability and simplicity.

[LeeLau]

It's not just the weight. This thing is meant to have a huge stride (60 degrees is the spec). That's huge for flat or gentle approaches. It costs a lot of $$$ but if it does tour that well, yet skis reasonably well and also holds up better than the TLT5 then it'll find its niche.

I will say something for the green machine. Those things last forever. They don't die - you just wish they did

Like many others I'll probably experiment with taking off the third buckle - which usually flopped loose for me anyway. Then we'll see how weight weenie it gets

[LeeLau]

steve - the juxtaposition was unfortunate in my reference. Call it stream of consciousness. The TLT5 isn't really gear-queering imo. The DNA or Pierre Gignoux or Alien - now that's gear-queering. The TLT5 is fantastic for touring agreed; I don't put that into into scholler skin suit, stuffing crotch with socks category.

[GeezerSteve]

Yup, this is the best damn thing about Dynafit's Ultra Lock cuff system:

This thing is meant to have a huge stride (60 degrees is the spec). That's huge for flat or gentle approaches

and for hiking, scrambling and flat-foot cramponing. TLT5s hike like light mountaineering boots. Only boot I've toured on since I got them. Great mid-winter touring boot, but they really shine for spring tours.

[XavierD]

Do you think it will tour significantly better than the ONE?

I guess what I am trying to say is that how many potential Vulcan buyers would be turned off by the extra 150g, if it meant having replaceable soles? I just think most of those folks would be opting for other boots already. I guess it just does not make much sense to me when combined with the release of the One, since the majority of buyers would opt for that boot instead.

I can see the benifit of replaceable soles to anyone who works on the mountain on a daily bases. Getting soles redone is, as Atrain pointed out, not a quick overnight process, nor is it necessarily going to solve the problem as Marshal pointed out. For people who earn a living in their boots, having to take a few days off to get them resoled can be expensive.

The boot will undoubtably find its niche, but I wonder if it could not have found a large one, with little cost to Dynafits overall sales, had it had swappable soles.

I can see its attraction to people who spend 95%+ of their time touring. For those of us who do use the lifts on a regular basis, it will find itself in an in atractive gap between markets. With replaceable soles, I could see it's niche reaching to cover those who spend up to 60 % of their time inbounds.

[GeezerSteve]

You mean TLT5 vs. One? TLT5 has the forefoot flex, which I like and will likely miss on the flats and hiking if I get the One or Mercury. But I won't know how this new line of boots tours until try them (likely the One). In theory any AT boot with the Ultra Lock cuff system should have huge fore-aft range. The only other AT boots that come anywhere close are the Scarpa Maestrale/Rush.

[Hugh Conway]

that said, i will not buy an AT boot without replaceable soles, otherwise i will have to throw the boot away every season due to use, but i think its funny that the titan and vulcan weigh the same, once you factor in replaceable soles.

It's definitely easier and cheaper but how many extra-TGR people ever bother? My sense has been it's a gizmo that people think is cool and many never bother because it's a pain - which is also the sense I get looking at retailer (on and offline) inventory on the pads/soles

[D(C)]

For those who are only using the boots with tech bindings, how big a deal are worn soles anyway? As long as the inserts are in good shape you're okay, no?

[LeeLau]

For those who are only using the boots with tech bindings, how big a deal are worn soles anyway? As long as the inserts are in good shape you're okay, no?

If they're really worn then you have to ski with the toes locked out as there won't even be enough rubber to support the boots on the bindings if they're sitting in the clamps with lever unlocked. But they have to be ridiculously chewed. It took me 200 days in megarides to get to that stage ie about 2 seasons but I don't hike rock as much as most.

[marshalolson]

If they're really worn then you have to ski with the toes locked out as there won't even be enough rubber to support the boots on the bindings if they're sitting in the clamps with lever unlocked. But they have to be ridiculously chewed. It took me 200 days in megarides to get to that stage ie about 2 seasons but I don't hike rock as much as most.

in colorado, montana, idaho, etc figure more like 75 days.

of course, as hugh pointed out, this is a tiny fraction of the population, and not a major concern for most folks.

[Atrain505]

Lee - Cattrax don't work sled skiing. I've tried them. They come off 10+ times a day. Useless.

Fredrico - You say if I want swappable soles to get the titan. The titan does not ski like an alpine boot. Therefore it's out of the running for me. The performance isn't there. I thought the vulcan was supposed to be the next step? Ski like a race boot and tour like mad. I.e. the boot that hoji doesn't have to make 25 mods to, so it skis really well. If that isn't the case then disregard me. The point of all these new boots coming to market is die hard skiers want one boot to rule them all. I don't want the pain in the ass of having an alpine boot and a touring boot. One boot is hard enough to get dialed and I don't want to spend the cash. All these boots that are coming out are the boots we have been dreaming about for ten years. Skis like a race boot with awesome touring capabilities. In North America the reality is that most people who fit in that realm use all kinds of bindings. By not having replaceable soles and limiting yourself to certain types of bindings you limit your customers. Plain and simple. This seems like a no brainer to me, but hey.

I will be getting a boot with a walk mode next year. Not sure which one yet. I guess the vulcan isn't a one and done boot.

[gregL]

The point of all these new boots coming to market is die hard skiers want one boot to rule them all.

I don't know about that, most die hard skiers I know have accepted the fact that one boot - like one ski or one puffy - can't do it all. They aren't willing to step down in performance when they're skiing the lifts with their buddies in alpine boots, and they're not willing to skin with the extra weight of heavier boots all day when their friends are on TLT 5's.

[GeezerSteve]

I've got c. 75 touring days on my TLT5s. Sole has worn down quite a bit but they still work fine in unlocked ski mode. Roughly half of those touring days were in virtually all snow, i.e., never touched rock. The other roughly half included hiking and/or scrambling, mostly when spring touring, and even some crack jamming (no jokes please). One buckle rivet hole is ovalizing and several rivets near the toe have popped off. Otherwise going strong. I'm hoping for 150 touring days on them.

I've seen Lasers and Megaridges with 200+ days that are so chewed up they look like abandoned dog toys and guys are still skiing on them.

Now that I've done a bunch of long spring tours with the TLT5s I'm spoiled, cannot imagine going back to boots with much less fore-aft ROM.

[gregL]

I'm spoiled, cannot imagine going back to boots with much less fore-aft ROM.

Me too. I've gotten used to driving my manual shift car around in my TLT 5's . . . and they skin better than they drive!

[SiSt]

I´m just wondering, how many similarities are there between the Vulcan and the Frankenboot?

The frankenboot looks to function like a three-piece design, which is part of what makes it attractive and led to the amount of interest it got in the skiing community.

The Vulcan, on the other hand, uses the the Ultra-Lock-System [sic], which achieves two important things:
-Easy switch into ski mode.
-Locks the boot into ski mode almost on top of the cuff, which means you can get a very stiff boot while using a minimum of material.

Now, to me, the ultra lock and it´s very high point of engagement seems to directly counteract the desired characteristics of a three-piece design (a smooth, progressive flex and the ability to adjust the flex by swapping the tounge out). From what I´ve heard from people skiing the boot, they´ve had two comments: 1), the boot is too stiff 2) the boot flexes by deforming the lower, which feels weird.

1) may be rectified by getting the Mercury (all the while, saving a shitload of money and according to wild snow´s specs, only getting a 10gram weight punishment).
2) not so much

The ability to ski the boot without the tongue kind of highlights this issue, as it shows just how much of the boots stiffness comes from the ultra-lock.

Also, this thing has come to market really quickly, and I suspect it´s been in development from long before Dynafit signed Hoji onto their team. Will he like it himself? Who knows, it will certainly ski differently from what he has now.

I do think they´re sexy as hell, and I may be talking out of my ass here as I´ve obviously not skied them.

[Federico]

hi hi hi ... don't forget one detail, we develop things for the future not for the past ;-) ... you will see maybe that in two years you will say that I was right.
Could be that one day you will not have alpine bindings anymore and all bindings, or most of the bindings sold in northamerica for both in-bounds and off-bounds will be tourable bindings perfectly matching without swappable soles delivering enough performance and safety for both uses.

The swappable sole system has other limits besides the weight that didn't alowed to reach the peformance level required.

Second ... don't forget that the Vulcan without the tongue, which you need only for skiing, is lighter than all the other touring boots in the market except the TLT5 and other "ski running" products... we are talking of 1.500gr,... so lighter than a Maestrale for example....
The interpratation of the story .. is that the Vulcan wanted to be a REAL touring boot... better than all the others except the TLT5 for touring... but skiing better than any other boot in the market.
Is it reached? ... we will see once people start to ski on them.

In general it's NOT possible to make a product which makes everybody happy, everybody has different tastes and opinions. so if you will never buy a boot without swappable soles it's ok. I can suppose that the vaste majority of the potential vulcan consumers will. Dynafit is trying is to develop very unique products concepts not to appeal to the majority but only to a niche of very expert exigent consumers and mountaineers. Since we started 7 years ago it has always been working fine and the Vulcan line for the moment is the one with the highest expectations since ever... so could be that a lot of people see the potential there.

As somebody wrote the Vulcan concept is planned to exisit since the day after we put on the market the TLT5. As you can see it's just a bigger TLT5 with one more buckle. When I met hoji the first time I thought he was GREAT and as he had exactly the same idea of how the perfect freeride boot should look like we decided to work together. His franken boot was very close to our ideas just "a little heavier" so we put all together and the Vulcan is the result.
Is he 100% happy with the result? ...we will see as unfortunately he has 25,5 feet size and friends of him are testing the boots and giving him feedbacks. at the moment looks like he's happy 95% ... it's not 100% but how many skies like him in the planet? ... well not so many I think ;-)

Lee - Cattrax don't work sled skiing. I've tried them. They come off 10+ times a day. Useless.

Fredrico - You say if I want swappable soles to get the titan. The titan does not ski like an alpine boot. Therefore it's out of the running for me. The performance isn't there. I thought the vulcan was supposed to be the next step? Ski like a race boot and tour like mad. I.e. the boot that hoji doesn't have to make 25 mods to, so it skis really well. If that isn't the case then disregard me. The point of all these new boots coming to market is die hard skiers want one boot to rule them all. I don't want the pain in the ass of having an alpine boot and a touring boot. One boot is hard enough to get dialed and I don't want to spend the cash. All these boots that are coming out are the boots we have been dreaming about for ten years. Skis like a race boot with awesome touring capabilities. In North America the reality is that most people who fit in that realm use all kinds of bindings. By not having replaceable soles and limiting yourself to certain types of bindings you limit your customers. Plain and simple. This seems like a no brainer to me, but hey.

I will be getting a boot with a walk mode next year. Not sure which one yet. I guess the vulcan isn't a one and done boot.

[Knut]

So all you say with your bla-bla is that you and your company still didn't get it? That's at least, what I get out of it.

One thing the industry seems simply incapable of realising, is that freeskiers are not the kind of customers you can simply talk into something.

The vulcan seems to be the continuation of an interesting development, but it seems far away from being a game changer in my eyes.

[gregL]

So all you say with your bla-bla is that you and your company still didn't get it? That's at least, what I get out of it.

One thing the industry seems simply incapable of realising, is that freeskiers are not the kind of customers you can simply talk into something.

Seems like Federico is saying his company understands the situation and has decided to go in a different direction. He might not be able to talk people into buying this boot, but freeskiers on this board seem to be susceptible to opinions from other people on the Internet and are certainly willing to throw down big money on new and relatively untested product. If the Vulcan doesn't appeal to you, there will be a bunch of burly boots with walk hinges to choose from next year.

[khyber.pass]

The titan does not ski like an alpine boot. Therefore it's out of the running for me. The performance isn't there. I thought the vulcan was supposed to be the next step? Ski like a race boot and tour like mad.

I had the chance to spend an inordinate amount of lift line time with Hoji a few weeks back, and one thing that became apparent when talking about the Vulcan is that Hoji does not need a totally stiff-ass race boot. Walk mode, weight, and comfort are top priorities. Not to quote him verbatim, but basically for skiing the Bumps around Whistler (moderate, pow-oriented touring terrain), before he got the TLT5s he was doing that with the tongues removed from his Frankenboots (!!). As he put it, "it keeps you honest" as a skier. Today he skis a lot of pillow lines and such on TLT5s. I'm not sure how many other skiers out there have taken that step, ie moving from big burly gear to lightweight Dynafit for drops and airs. Point being that, at least as I understood it, Hoji places significant emphasis on balance and skill in driving the ski. I think a lot of riders expect the boot to compensate. Hoji has a lot of grace and skill as a rider and he is designing a touring boot that will also demand some of that from its skier if it is to be used for bigger skis and more demanding lines. It will be possible, but might require some adjustment from those used to having a cement casts on their feet.

I'm a fairly mellow rider compared to the balls-out TGR crowd, but I know since switching to the Ghost a few years ago (from a plug boot) that it's changed my style (and saved my shins). The flex is something I like and anticipate and it requires a different balance. I'm guessing Cody Townsend and Hoji are on similar planes here, though designing very different end products.

I'm hopeful about the Vulcans for their anticipated fit alone. This will be a narrow boot with a more alpine-style 27.5 size fit. Yet, the boot BSL is much less than other models because of the reduced materials, apparently.

[iscariot]

^^^


I ski several runs a day with my boots undone (either accidentally or on purpose), all 4 buckles flipped and off their ladders.

I learned it when racing; its a good technique to get your balance together if you're having an off day...or if you just forget to re-buckle your boots after the lift.

[Federico]

......

So all you say with your bla-bla is that you and your company still didn't get it? That's at least, what I get out of it.

One thing the industry seems simply incapable of realising, is that freeskiers are not the kind of customers you can simply talk into something.

The vulcan seems to be the continuation of an interesting development, but it seems far away from being a game changer in my eyes.