The darkest day in SEAL history - a dark day for all Americans - US heroes killed

[Knipping12]

not to be insensitive- all wars are bullshit- and this seems politically expedient to me
check out these articles:

http://www.infowars.com/deaths-of-seal-team-6-exposed/

http://www.infowars.com/seal-unit-su...-copter-crash/

Not the time or place imo...

[Edgnar]

This is bigger deal because it was the deadliest day of the entire Afghan war for Americans.

So how sad is it that it takes the death of 30+ brave men for the nation to take note?

[DasBlunt]

So how sad is it that it takes the death of 30+ brave men for the nation to take note?

Not all sad, stupid. Entertainment excess along with having first world problems, is the reason no one is up in arms. Sad too.

Really, I bet we scored some good intel from OsamaBIN, and we will continue to act on it.

tangent,
London is having some MASSIVE riots right now, trippy, while 100s of kids are trying to sneak into Lallapalooza.

[RockChalk]

I received the following email from my sister last night, I don't really know what to say about it, and wasn't sure I should share it with a bunch of internet strangers but I think it put a lot into perspective and should be read by as many people as possible. Please remember everyone who risks their lives in our armed forces while you are going about your daily tasks today, they truly are selfless heroes. I am very sad this morning....

"Hey guys,


I thought I would just write to let you know that I'm okay, and everything is going as well as can be expected here. The individuals who died when the helicopter crashed were based out of my base. When they were bringing the remains back last night, they would play taps everytime a bird landed. They played it three seperate times. The last time, at around 0530, I woke up right before it began. After it was over it was completely silent, and while I was laying in bed I was thinking that it's probably the saddest silence I've ever listened to. Last night during the briefing the LT (male) that was describing the event started choking up and then all out sobbing, one of his colleaugues had to finish for him. The numbers came out today, and they lost 1/3 of seal team 6. It's the largest loss for the Navy Special Warfare unit since WWII. I'm not sure how they're going to recover from this, but they will.

In other news, I'm alright, this place is definitely not Iraq, and it's difficult to understand why after 10 years the bases are still shit, the country is still shit, and the whole situation seems pretty hopeless. This particular conflict was and is absolutely the war that no one really cared about, but everyone should have.

I hope everything there is alright, I miss you guys alot, and can't wait to see you again."

[PowTron]

^^^^ Thanks for sharing that...and regardless of my political leaning or thoughts on this and the entire war, this one email says a LOT about how it must feel to be stationed there.

RIP to ALL Soldiers that have lost their lives in this conflict.

[Diamond Joe]

wow, what the fuck. "My fucking dog is sick" threads generate fucking 5 pages of "oh thats so sad" and "++++vibes++++"

while 30 of the best, brightest, and bravest young Americans that exist die in a helicopter crash, reducing the fighting strength of our best military unit by anywhere from 1/6 to 1/3, and all we get is a page and a half of replies?!?

Thats fucking sad. Unacceptable...

[sftc]

wow, what the fuck. "My fucking dog is sick" threads generate fucking 5 pages of "oh thats so sad" and "++++vibes++++"...
...Thats fucking sad. Unacceptable...

This thread does deserve another bump and it's funny you should say that about the dog thread. I have a relative who spent 2 years at the embassy in Kabul and he sent me this story the other day. At first I thought it was a little frivolous, but it's hard for everyone to work and live over there and different people have different ways of coping with it, bless them all:

Cat fight at U.S. Embassy in Kabul

By Joshua Partlow, Published: August 3

KABUL — Veteran diplomat Ryan C. Crocker can handle Islamist insurgencies, hostile heads of state and management of some of the world’s largest embassies. But what’s he going to do about the cats?

The new leader of the U.S. Embassy in Kabul has probably already walked past (and possibly petted?) Gordo, Freckles, Dusty, Ferdinand and Maria Teresa or any of the other 25 to 30 felines that populate the downtown diplomatic campus. But in case he has not been briefed on the bizarre battle over their fate (kill them! save them! fly them to Berkeley!), here are the basics.

Somewhere in the murky past, at least one, if not two, embassy staffers were bitten and/or scratched by the somewhat-feral cats that wander the grounds. Security of all forms is sacred here, so red flags went up, warnings went out, rabies vaccines went in. “I’m not anti-cat,” one senior diplomat explained. “I’m pro-public health.”

The writing was on the wall. The cats’ days were numbered. “That meant exterminate,” one staffer recalled.

Enter the cat committee, which perhaps unsurprisingly is made up of people who love cats. But that doesn’t fully explain them. Working in Kabul is not easy. Staffers endure endless hours and monotonous food, walled off from the city where they work and a world away from their loved ones. Plus there’s the nagging threat that people want to kill them. The embassy bar is called the Duck and Cover.

“We basically can’t go out at all. We can’t walk across the street; we have to take a tunnel. There are no kids, no families, and basically what we have is the cats,” said one member of the committee. “It’s as close as we come to normality.”

In April, one of the embassy’s top diplomats, James Keith, convened a town hall to discuss the extermination order. Cat lovers came out in force to vent, but Keith stood his ground. The proposal that emerged would allow diplomats 60 days to adopt and ship out the cats they wanted, and the rest would meet some unspecified, but presumably unfortunate, end.

This did not assuage all concerns. As per a May 26 e-mail from a USAID staffer (Importance: High), the anti-cat crowd’s solution would do nothing for public health. Many of the cats, domesticated and immunized, it read, are “fiercely territorial” and, therefore, keep out feral cats, as well as vermin, poisonous snakes, rats and mice, “which certainly are more of a health risk to the Embassy Community.”

Sixty days passed. The debate went on. Amid the diplomatic politesse of meetings and draft proposals, some interesting guerrilla tactics emerged. Taking a page from the Taliban’s book, someone taped a night letter on the wall of the Duck and Cover. “Warning,” it read, above an image of two insurgent cats toting AK-47s, “we will break out our fellow comrades from your compound.”

Another flier that popped up in USAID offices pictured a cat in a Guevaraesque beret: “Viva la revolucion,” signed El Gato.

A more sensitive soul composed an ode under the nom de plume Bacon and the Katz. It began: “Why oh why must we die?”

“Most of you will return to the US where the living is easy and good / We apologize if our actions (purring and eating) have been misunderstood. / Please do not despise us nor wish for our demise / We cannot help it that we have cat’s eyes.”

The humane-removal advocates had a few tricks up their own oxford-cloth sleeves.

Until recently, embassy staffers who lived in a trailer (officially: containerized housing unit, or CHU) were allowed to keep a non-dog. “Small pets (mainly cats) are permitted in the CHUs” was the policy as outlined by the “welcome to post” cable given to arriving diplomats earlier this year. A more recent version, officials said, quietly omits the language permitting cats.

Witnesses have spotted fewer cats these days. Embassy officials insist no cats have been killed. Some remain safely housed in trailers and apartments. Staffers are putting together a name-and-picture-book cat census for those that stay. Evacuation plans have also begun. One committee member has found shelters in Berkeley, Calif., willing to take in what one person called “Afghan refugee cats.”

Who knows where this will lead. Surely a diplomat of Crocker’s caliber can find a solution. If not, the cat fight may very well continue.

[4matic]

Thats fucking sad. Unacceptable...

What do you say about something like this? Complain about politicians? Complain about war? It's so sad that it's difficult to verbalize. I think about our brave troops every day. I'm proud and grateful we have them.

[RootSkier]

Thats fucking sad. Unacceptable...

Yeah, well your sig probably explains why others don't necessarily see eye to eye with you.

That said, condolences to friends and family of undeniably brave and capable soldiers. They all died too young, like countless tens of thousands of others who your average american doesn't give two fucks about.

[Jer]

They all died too young, like countless tens of thousands of others who your average american doesn't give two fucks about.

Or the avereage American "news" scource for that matter. What ever happened to CNN's daily KIA count? Most Americans have forgotten about it because the mass-mindrape media has decided not to report on it anymore.

As for Diamond Joe's sig - get a sense of humor Root.

[cranked]

Donate if you can...any help matters...

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/

RIP, and thanks to all those that serve.

[leroy jenkins]

wow, what the fuck. "My fucking dog is sick" threads generate fucking 5 pages of "oh thats so sad" and "++++vibes++++"

while 30 of the best, brightest, and bravest young Americans that exist die in a helicopter crash, reducing the fighting strength of our best military unit by anywhere from 1/6 to 1/3, and all we get is a page and a half of replies?!?

Thats fucking sad. Unacceptable...

Really? How many people that post here have good friends or immediate family members that are or ever were seals, let alone the ones that died? My guess, 0.

I have gratitude and respect for the seals and their sacrifice, but I will never be able to feel the same loss as losing a creature that was actually involved in my life, even if it was just a dog.

[Diamond Joe]

Leroy, I dont know any of the SEALs personally, and you'll notice i didnt say "my dog is DEAD" threads...ya, obviously, you're going to feel more loss for the creature that was involved in your life than for strangers. thats not my point. even though i knew none of those guys that died in that copter personally, when i saw the news, my blood ran cold and tears welled up in my eyes, and i felt the loss of life. it hurt, a little bit like when i saw two towers collapsing in front of my eyes, and felt the incredible loss of life.. The loss will never be the same, obviously, as losing something/someone in your life. but there IS a loss that can be felt by the deaths of brave, selfless strangers dying in defense (or support) of your country, its ideals, and its people. whether it be soldiers, firefighters, or whomever.

oh, and do SEALs deserve to be mourned above and beyond average soldiers? No, obviously, but yes at the same time; No, because all soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen are brave and agree to put their lives on the line, and all human lives are equal at their core. But, at the same time, SEALs not only agree to put their lives on the line, they ASK to be the ones whose lives ARE put on the line, and frequently. Much, much more often than average soldiers. When SEALs graduate their initial training, they are told "Congratulations! 25% of you will not live to see your 30th birthday!" The person that agrees to do that for our coutry is a special human being. A special American..

and in this case, the fact that it was SEALs from Team 6, the group that JUST had thousands of people celebrating in the streets fer' fucks sake, you'd think that the death of a huge percentage of their team would merit a much bigger reaction...

I dunno, maybe its just me... I'm still feeling the loss of my friend Billy, a Marine who died earlier this summer in combat.. Maybe my feelings are a little more raw than your average American.. Sorry

[Diamond Joe]

That said, condolences to friends and family of undeniably brave and capable soldiers. They all died too young, like countless tens of thousands of others who your average american doesn't give two fucks about.

Or the avereage American "news" scource for that matter. What ever happened to CNN's daily KIA count? Most Americans have forgotten about it because the mass-mindrape media has decided not to report on it anymore.

FKNA!!!

Not all of us have forgotten..(like most of those who have posted in this thread...) I'm just annoyed that the lack of replies to this thread proves exactly what you're saying Root - your average american doesnt give a fuck. Its sad.

[sftc]

Really? How many people that post here have good friends or immediate family members that are or ever were seals, let alone the ones that died? My guess, 0....

1) Please show some respect, it's SEALs

2) I will speak for several, if not many, lurkers and members around here and ask you to stand down.

3) Good Friends or immediate family members that are or ever were SEALs? Maybe

4) Ones that died? Maybe

I have gratitude and respect for the seals and their sacrifice, but I will never be able to feel the same loss as losing a creature that was actually involved in my life, even if it was just a dog.

I feel sorry for you, because it's sad that you apparently value an animal's life over a fellow human being, especially a human who conscientiously put his life on the line for your freedom.

As per his MO, Leroy just closed out the ignorant part of the thread. If you want to debate the value of a dog vs. the life of a United States Navy SEAL you can go start another thread in the stupid room. For now can we please keep this on topic?

Leroy Jenkins, your screen name speaks for itself, it's sad that you don't have any real life Heros. If you'd like to talk about this post with me personally so that I may fill you in on some details please send me a PM.

[boarddad]

I suppose it has been this way forever, but I really object to the way the information about this incident has been disseminated to the public. We were told it was the same team that killed Bin Laden and we all naturally assumed it was the exact same guys. Days later we learn it's not the same guys. Why not say that from the start? The news is just as tragic. Days after that, there is a separate, equally publicized story about the US killing the guys who shot down the copter. America, fuck yeah! Only, in light of the rest of the story and how it was fed to us, I'm not so sure that's true or if it's really all that important if it is.

I will agree this falls short of the dis-information we got surrounding Jessica Lynch or Pat Tillman, but IMHO, it's the same tactic. I far more appreciate getting the information the way RockChalk gave it to us. THAT is the truth, unfiltered. God bless your sister RockChalk and thank you for sharing.

My initial reaction to the tragedy was that it was time to bring our troops home and refocus on actual threats to our national security. That was my reaction as a dad, thinking of the families back home forever fractured in an instant. Now, seeing the way the news of this tragedy has been used as a tool, and seeing the truth in rockchalks post, I'm actually a little angry about it. Ron Paul is right (again), let's end this thing. I see no benefit to fit the risk our men and women are taking over there.

[OSECS]

^^^^ Well said sir.

[fool]

Totally right brother. Dying alongside those SEALs were the 7 Afghan SF soldiers you mention, the interpreter, as well as a special forces DOG and his handler. and it would be remiss not to mention the crew and pilots of the copter - they were members of the elite 160th SOAR, the flying version of special forces.

R.I.P. So sad.

The CH47 crew was actually five National Guard Soldiers from the 7th Battalion, 158th Aviation Regiment and 2nd Battalion, 135th Aviation Regiment. Regardless of what unit the crew is from, it's still sad.

[fool]

And in case people haven't heard, it looks like a US airstrike killed the insurgent who shot down the helicopter: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...576543210.html

[spook]

i hate to break it to the OP, but it is not a dark day for ALL americans because a helicopter full of empire's eager killers got shot down. some folks have it coming. nice try though. they are not heroes.

[XXX-er]

i hate to break it to the OP, but it is not a dark day for ALL americans because a helicopter full of empire's eager killers got shot down. some folks have it coming. nice try though. they are not heroes.

so you are saying it was just part of the job ?

[leroy jenkins]

Leroy, I dont know any of the SEALs personally, and you'll notice i didnt say "my dog is DEAD" threads...ya, obviously, you're going to feel more loss for the creature that was involved in your life than for strangers. thats not my point. even though i knew none of those guys that died in that copter personally, when i saw the news, my blood ran cold and tears welled up in my eyes, and i felt the loss of life. it hurt, a little bit like when i saw two towers collapsing in front of my eyes, and felt the incredible loss of life.. The loss will never be the same, obviously, as losing something/someone in your life. but there IS a loss that can be felt by the deaths of brave, selfless strangers dying in defense (or support) of your country, its ideals, and its people. whether it be soldiers, firefighters, or whomever.

oh, and do SEALs deserve to be mourned above and beyond average soldiers? No, obviously, but yes at the same time; No, because all soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen are brave and agree to put their lives on the line, and all human lives are equal at their core. But, at the same time, SEALs not only agree to put their lives on the line, they ASK to be the ones whose lives ARE put on the line, and frequently. Much, much more often than average soldiers. When SEALs graduate their initial training, they are told "Congratulations! 25% of you will not live to see your 30th birthday!" The person that agrees to do that for our coutry is a special human being. A special American..

and in this case, the fact that it was SEALs from Team 6, the group that JUST had thousands of people celebrating in the streets fer' fucks sake, you'd think that the death of a huge percentage of their team would merit a much bigger reaction...

I dunno, maybe its just me... I'm still feeling the loss of my friend Billy, a Marine who died earlier this summer in combat.. Maybe my feelings are a little more raw than your average American.. Sorry

I am sorry for your loss. Truly I am. This is just the way people work though, empathy comes a lot easier for people that have a more immediate affect on our lives. I can THINK about these SEALS and possibly feel a little sad, but really it is an intellectual idea tinged with actual emotion, like feeling empathy for a character in a movie.

Hearing about your friend makes it a lot more real to me and I can empathize with you, even reading you relate that over the internet has far more of an affect on me than reading about it in an article, or just thinking of him as a single digit in the total tally of combat losses in these wars.

It is the same thing with dogs. I hear about XXX # of dogs are put to sleep each year because shelters dont have room for them and I can think, oh that is too bad, I feel bad for them, but it is merely an idea. When I see a person post a thread here about their own suffering due to the loss (or fear of loss) of their dog, it is a lot more real, and I suddenly realize that maybe that person could be comforted by me offering my condolences.

I am truly sorry for you loss. I am not a headshrinker by any means, and I feel a bit out of place preaching to you as I do not actually know you, but I suggest you focus on your loss and grief and stop trying to compare it to the feelings other people espouse for other people or animals.

Then there are pieces of shit like spook, then can read about you losing your friend and still make a comment like he did, despite having chosen an absolutely sick human being who carried out absolutely pointless murders as his avatar. Seriously man, fuck you.



As for people not caring about the death tallies, there is a difference between not caring at all, and realizing you are powerless over such a thing. I hear a death tally and I feel bad, but at the same time, I don't want those soldier's sacrifice to be for nothing. Who am I to feel outraged and proclaim these wars must end purely for emotional reasons because I am uncomfortable hearing about the soldiers that die in them? I think maybe at least some of those soldiers would rather their death mean something than have us give up just because they died. Then again who the hell am I that I can proclaim we MUST press on just so their sacrifice was not in vain? The only power I have in this situation is to hope that our politicians truly appreciate the weight of the sacrifices demanded of our military in these wars and act in the nation's best interest given the intelligence at hand. Thats all I can do. Continuing to hear the death tally makes little difference because the situation does not become any more black and white, it remains a shade of gray, and I remain powerless. People only have a limited capacity to hear about all the fucked up sad shit in the world, after a while it becomes to much, and they can't do anything about it. There is a limitless supply of really sad and fucked up shit to hear about in the world.


A lot of times on this site I like to debate stupid bullshit just for kicks because I'm bored. I have tried to be respectful in this post because I truly am sorry for your loss. Again, I hope I don't seem too condescending, but I suggest you focus on your own grief and worry less about the opinions and feelings of other people regarding unrelated things. I am sure everyone that knew your friend Billy truly understands that the world lost a wonderful human soul, for me though, I never knew the man, so the best I can offer is to say I am sincerely sorry for you loss and I hope you find peace with it.

[Art Shirk]

i hate to break it to the OP, but it is not a dark day for ALL americans because a helicopter full of empire's eager killers got shot down. some folks have it coming. nice try though. they are not heroes.

You are so edgy. Let me get outraged so that you can find some smug satisfaction in knowing you aggravated some lemming from your perch. Congratulate yourself again for having it all figured out.

[spook]

You are so edgy. Let me get outraged so that you can find some smug satisfaction in knowing you aggravated some lemming from your perch. Congratulate yourself again for having it all figured out.

i guess outrage is in the eye of the beholder, huh. there's no draft. they joined so they could do what they were doing when the highly overmatched opponent they helped slaughter on behalf of somebody besides you or i managed to exact a little revenge. it's war. tough shit for goliath.

[OSECS]

i guess outrage is in the eye of the beholder, huh. there's no draft. they joined so they could do what they were doing when the highly overmatched opponent they helped slaughter on behalf of somebody besides you or i managed to exact a little revenge. it's war. tough shit for goliath.

You're sad little man.........