Electric Bike Thread

[nest]

Can’t even watch this. Paid actor and not very playful. Someone wrote his lines for him for sure. Dude is washed. Total hack

Why do you have such a boner for ebikes? Do you work in the industry?


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[grinch]

Why do you have such a boner for ebikes? Do you work in the industry?


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No, never tried one. I’ve just been inundated by ebike vids on my youtube “suggestions” after watching a couple. The last two popped up today. One first then the other. Just having a laugh at all the wild claims and false equivalencies in here. I can only smh and roll my eyes so much. It’s a discussion so discuss and the vids prove a point without typing.
Advocacy is another discussion. Much respect for anyone that’s fought that battle, rogue or legal . I can only comment on that from what I’ve seen in my locals

[El Kanone]

Here's the deal, if you want to go motorized, even electric, own it and get a motorbike and ride them where they're allowed. Don't pretend to be a mountain biker while riding an ebike and pretending to be a mountain biker. I have no problem with motorized use where appropriate, ebikes are appropriate for seniors and the handicapped on bike lanes and paths. Anything else is, well, gay.

Making concessions to an ever expanding list of special interest user groups is lame. It's a slippery slope to ruining access for everyone if we start making exceptions to the rules when it comes to motorized use. It has nothing to do with who is radder and more skilled and sour grapes. The interest of the majority is what matters. I know that may not sit well with all the 'freedom lovers' but fuck them.

Ahh haaa
You are so threatened by the thought of being passed by a woman or a child or a 70 year old or your neighbor or a random stranger that you resort to calling anyone claiming ebikes are a cool invention gay.
Thanks for making my point for me.




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[Tri-Ungulate]

Hey doodz and dudettez... seeing as there is a friggin' gunz Tech Talk thread devoid of typical Interwebz arguments about everything and nothing, mebbe we should have an eBike Tech Talk thread to just go over builds and stuff like that. This here current thread is good for hashing out the appropriateness of eBikes in various milieu ad nauseaum, but I think I'll go over to the other forum to start another.

In any case, my own personal opinion is that eBikes are awesome for commuting, grocery shopping and barhopping, etc., and pretty fun for fire roads and motorized access trails, but I would personally not be cool with riding eBikes in the wilderness or predominantly human-powered singletrack areas, at least not on the up. On the down, as long as you're not on assist, you're just another heavy bike.

[LeeLau]

Have you been following this thread? One of the key whines is how mtn bikers have advocated for their trails. Yeah, the same fucking guys riding ebikes now. Keep up canuck.

You're not logical and making a leap that makes no sense. I answered your question logically. It's not my fault you don't understand.

[wooley12]

Fat tire e bike just went by. Rider had a back pack. Perfect combo for a 50 - 100 mile a day 500 mile ride on this trail. It's not legal but no one cares so get it while you can and tell your grand kids about the time when you could ..........

[kidwoo]

I think his point was that decent riders are using these, having fun, getting creative with their riding and getting a good workout in. You know - mountain biking. There's a reason sales are taking off and it's not because people don't want to exercise when they bike.

And my takeaway is that they make decent riders look like goons.

I've ridden two of them. They suck descending. For me that's the end of the story. Old man Jones from dirt who thinks orange dh bikes are/were the best thing ever and fabien barrel marketing for canyon changes zero of that. Go watch the video of kenny smith riding one of those monstrosities. He looks like a scared little chicken trying to peck his way around in the dark. kenny smith is not a scared chicken.

[klauss]

Which two have you ridden? Don’t know no Kenny Smith or old man Jones but okay. I am not even thinking about buying an ebike but the opposition in this thread just doesn’t match my experience on the one time I spent a day using one. Felt like mtb’ing to me but just more of it in one day.

[XXX-er]

Kenny Smith is one of them young rippers who came out of
PG

[grinch]

Ya Kenny is a ripper. He did look a little gripped on the last rock line. Burly line but I think he’s flash it on a lighter bike or his dh bike. Seems to be a popular sentiment that they take a bit extra to slow that added weight. To be expected. A lot of the ebikes while looking like there regular bike counterparts have crazy long chainstays too that also limits there playability(is that a word?). The lapierre Nico is on, and the pivot you tried Klaus, are a fair bit lighter and have short chainstays pretty much identical to the companies non e bike models. A lot of rave reviews on that pivot stating that . If that new fazua motor pans out neither the weight or the chainstays and placement for the main pivot on the swing arm should be an issue. It should be possible to have normal geometry, under 40lbs(currently they’re 50lbs) in aluminium for a decent price, and the ability to use it without the motor(just as a normal bike but with huge storage where the fazua motor and battery go) or with the motor where ebikes are allowed. One of those vids the fazua rep said a lot of companies are jumping on that system

[JerseyDave]

I think his point was that decent riders are using these, having fun, getting creative with their riding and getting a good workout in. You know - mountain biking. There's a reason sales are taking off and it's not because people don't want to exercise when they bike.

I can do the same thing on my wr 250....but it's not mountain biking.

[Name Redacted]

Everyone is talking about the equipment available now, like it isn't going to evolve as time and money are pumped into the technology. Sure, they might weight 50 lbs now, but wait a few years and they'll be 30 guaranteed. Like how computer processors used to take up a whole room now can fit on the tip of your finger.

Battery technology is one of the biggest things going on right now, not just for bikes, but car obviously. Shitton of money going that direction so it will eventually filter down to bikes and it's gonna be pretty badass.

It is going to happen, regardless of the internet rants and handwringing so might as well embrace it.

[Toddball]

Riding an ebike on singletrack is like taking an elevator one floor. Often legal, and useful if you have heavy loads to tote or you're old and/or decrepit. Don't really see the point otherwise.

[jetski]

Apparently an Altitude Power play caught fire at a dealer in B.C.
Its happenning already. Machines are taking over! Your ebike wants you dead!!!
Skynet bikes are next! Our savior will travel from the past and defeat the ebike overlord while riding a Univega with a Gervin flexstem. Charge safe everyone...

[MultiVerse]

Everyone is talking about the equipment available now, like it isn't going to evolve as time and money are pumped into the technology. Sure, they might weight 50 lbs now, but wait a few years and they'll be 30 guaranteed. Like how computer processors used to take up a whole room now can fit on the tip of your finger.

Battery technology is one of the biggest things going on right now, not just for bikes, but car obviously. Shitton of money going that direction so it will eventually filter down to bikes and it's gonna be pretty badass.

It is going to happen, regardless of the internet rants and handwringing so might as well embrace it.

Even with a carbon frame e-MTB-mopeds weigh around 50lbs. They are heavier because of the battery and motor and also because some of the components like the fork need to be heavier to handle the weight and speed. They'll get a little lighter but apples-to-apples you're still looking at a 20lb penalty over a similarly capable bike for the foreseeable future.

IDK, you might be right. Ebikes are a sure thing on the road/gravel, especially for commuting and dinking around, but the industry is driven by fads so often times what looks like a sure thing on the trail today is collecting dust tomorrow.

[LeeLau]

A battery expert client of mine says that the limiter on technology is regulatory and safety standards on batteries. He's fairly confident that battery weight and size of packs will stay roughly the same for a decade or so unless new materials are invented and pointed out that most R&D at present is going into static industrial applications.

The weight may come down. It won't be substantial reductions

[Name Redacted]

Even with a carbon frame e-MTB-mopeds weigh around 50lbs. They are heavier because of the battery and motor and also because some of the components like the fork need to be heavier to handle the weight and speed. They'll get a little lighter but apples-to-apples you're still looking at a 20lb penalty over a similarly capable bike.

ebikes are happening on the road, especially for commuting and dinking around, but the industry is driven by fads so often times what looks like a sure thing today is collecting dust tomorrow.

It isn't even about the bike industry at this point, these are just a product of the trillions of dollars being invested in battery technology. You really don't think batteries will get smaller and more efficient? The bike industry has always benefited from advances in technology that they didn't necessarily fund. You think carbon was created for mountain biking?

[Name Redacted]

A battery expert client of mine says that the limiter on technology is regulatory and safety standards on batteries. He's fairly confident that battery weight and size of packs will stay roughly the same for a decade or so unless new materials are invented and pointed out that most R&D at present is going into static industrial applications.

The weight may come down. It won't be substantial reductions

Surely he knows more than I do, but I would assume that incremental advances would still be made in design. Hard to believe that such a fast emerging technology would stagnate all of the sudden.

[MultiVerse]

It isn't even about the bike industry at this point, these are just a product of the trillions of dollars being invested in battery technology. You really don't think batteries will get smaller and more efficient? The bike industry has always benefited from advances in technology that they didn't necessarily fund. You think carbon was created for mountain biking?

I agree and disagree. The bike industry is piggybacking on a revolution in motor and battery technology that dates back to the early aughts. Electric motors, especially. So what looks new to bikes is somewhat mature tech elsewhere. The reason why I wrote "foreseeable future" in the original post is because someday we might see things like solid state batteries but we're not there yet.

Then there's physics. Tires and components need to be a little beefier to handle the weight and speed. If you can lighten those things for ebikes then you can also lighten those things for regular bikes... and trail bikes have more or less plateaued in terms of weight loss.

[Name Redacted]

I both agree and disagree. The bike industry is piggybacking on a revolution in motor and battery technology that dates back to the early aughts. Electric motors, especially. So what looks new to bikes is somewhat mature tech elsewhere. The reason why I wrote "foreseeable future" in the original post is because someday we might see things like solid state batteries but we're not there yet.

Then there's the the physics. Tires and components need to be a little beefier to handle the weight and speed. If you can lighten those things for ebikes then you can also lighten those things for regular bikes... and trail bikes have more or less plateaued in terms of weight loss.

Yeah, not saying that ebike will ever be the same weight as a non-e bike. But maybe the same weight as regular mtbs are now. A 30-35lb bike rides pretty damn well all over the place, and would be totally acceptable with a battery and motor on it, especially if that weight was lower in the COG.

[TahoeJ]

Battery tech is incremental right now, so I wouldn’t expect a huge leap anytime soon. Whoever solves that problem will be the next trillionaire.

[rideit]

I say all the time that once they are
a) ~32 pounds
b) ~6000 dollars
c) have 75 mile battery life
d) I am sixty
I will get one (we have hundreds of miles of moto legal trails in the Big Holes that kinda suck on a standard bike)....
Whichever comes first.

[grinch]

There will be several 37-39lb full suspension bikes next year . Battery/motor/software weighs 9lbs

[LeeLau]

Battery tech is incremental right now, so I wouldn’t expect a huge leap anytime soon. Whoever solves that problem will be the next trillionaire.

Shredgnar what Tahoe said is essentially correct. The physics behind batteries needs a massive quantum leap breakthrough. Which I am told is possible in large static applications.

The bar is not just the physics but regulatory safety standards understandable given fire danger if batteries catch fire and/or explode.

Grinch most of the ebike weight reduction is going into commuters and super light hardtails or fragile FS using super light components. The batterypack/supply/transmission combo is already hitting walls in terms of weight -reduction.

I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that there's realworld barriers to the batteries getting lighter.

If anyone here is interested in the science of lithium ion and possible ways forward read this re lithium polymer, solid state and cobalt. Other articles talk about the R&D focus on large static uses https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...-battery-power

[Bunion 2020]

It is going to happen, regardless of the internet rants and handwringing so might as well embrace it.

No doubt, but in reality these hybrids are not Bicycles. Call them E-bikes or Mo-peds but they are not Bicycles.

A bicycle, also called a cycle or bike, is a human-powered, pedal-driven, single-track vehicle, having two wheels attached to a frame, one behind the other. A bicycle rider is called a cyclist, or bicyclist.