My Hobbit feet need a proper AT boot; WWMD?

[Bobcat Sig]

I know; get the red ones, right?

The situation:
I've been using the original Cochise as my dedicated AT boot the last two seasons+. They fit my Hobbit feet, but the heel hold is awful, even with an Intuition power wrap and an ankle wrap. It's to point now that even with proper socks and all things being the same; I get heel blisters after only a few hour tour.
After reading up on the Mercury and subsequently the Maestrale RS; neither fit my high instep. Too much pressure. Of the two, the RS fit the worst.
I'm also finding that I'd like to go longer/farther and cutting weight in my boots and gaining more range of motion is a very good thing.
On the Mercury (and the One), only two shops carry them in the region and neither felt confident in boot work necessary to get them to fit properly.

My feet:
skinny ankle
high and bony instep
wide forefoot and midfoot
high arch

My wants:
excellent ankle hold (a la my Langes)
proper range of motion
lighter weight
high volume in the arch/instep
wide toe box
stiff-ish flex; 110-120

The Mercury (and the One) and the Maestrale RS (and Mango) all seem to be out due to not enough instep height. The Scarpa Freedom is too much boot and really no different thant he Cochise. I don't have elf feet, so the TLT6 ain't gonna cut it. I red up on the Scott (Garmont) Cosmos and they might do the trick. But no local dealers, it seems. Fuck.

WWMD: find a proper shop with a knowledge AT boot fitter? What other boots should I try? Go all mad scientist on something and make it work? Say fuck it and post hole the skintrack and get my teeth kicked in? Buy the blue boots?

[hoarhey]

consider the Sportiva Spectres, although with the heat molding all are doing above the instep, don't know how that might work for you...

[Orangutan Grabber]

Try older Scarpa Spirit 4, Mobe, etc. series -- those had TONS of room for high instep/arches.
Stiffer "ski" tongues helped make those boots on-area worthy. Or at least tolerable.

Scott Cosmos is much better/roomier than Merc. or Maest boots -- but not immensely so. Definitely worth putting your foot into though. I tried on TLT 6 -- hated it - Mercury/Vulcan's weren't any better around my shin and ankle bones. Maestrale forward lean was too far forward. Cosmos fit awesome right out of box. Went for 1 tour/ski a week ago - no complaints. Plenty stiff - with nice semi-progressive flex, huge ROM, VERY light weight. Awesome boots. I've been in the full carbon cuffed Dynafit Zero 4 because of good interior volume. Cosmos offers same comfy fit, lighter weight, much more ROM, and still plenty of performance on the down in soft stuff.

[Bobcat Sig]

consider the Sportiva Spectres, although with the heat molding all are doing above the instep, don't know how that might work for you...

That's the rub. The two shops that carried Dynafit thought that it might fix the instep issue, but no guarantees. After that, neither was sure of what else could be done. That's an expensive gamble at $800.

Try older Scarpa Spirit 4, Mobe, etc. series -- those had TONS of room for high instep/arches.
Stiffer "ski" tongues helped make those boots on-area worthy. Or at least tolerable.

Scott Cosmos is much better/roomier than Merc. or Maest boots -- but not immensely so. Definitely worth putting your foot into though. I tried on TLT 6 -- hated it - Mercury/Vulcan's weren't any better around my shin and ankle bones. Maestrale forward lean was too far forward. Cosmos fit awesome right out of box. Went for 1 tour/ski a week ago - no complaints. Plenty stiff - with nice semi-progressive flex, huge ROM, VERY light weight. Awesome boots. I've been in the full carbon cuffed Dynafit Zero 4 because of good interior volume. Cosmos offers same comfy fit, lighter weight, much more ROM, and still plenty of performance on the down in soft stuff.

Nice beta. Thank you. No shops that I know of that carry Scotts locally, so tough to foot fuck them at the moment.

[DasBlunt]

Switch to snowboarding, seriously. The boots are better and after touring and packing up lame ass poles, going downhill is way more freedom filled fun.

I know; get the red ones, right?

The situation:
I've been using the original Cochise as my dedicated AT boot the last two seasons+. They fit my Hobbit feet, but the heel hold is awful, even with an Intuition power wrap and an ankle wrap. It's to point now that even with proper socks and all things being the same; I get heel blisters after only a few hour tour.
After reading up on the Mercury and subsequently the Maestrale RS; neither fit my high instep. Too much pressure. Of the two, the RS fit the worst.
I'm also finding that I'd like to go longer/farther and cutting weight in my boots and gaining more range of motion is a very good thing.
On the Mercury (and the One), only two shops carry them in the region and neither felt confident in boot work necessary to get them to fit properly.

My feet:
skinny ankle
high and bony instep
wide forefoot and midfoot
high arch

My wants:
excellent ankle hold (a la my Langes)
proper range of motion
lighter weight
high volume in the arch/instep
wide toe box
stiff-ish flex; 110-120

The Mercury (and the One) and the Maestrale RS (and Mango) all seem to be out due to not enough instep height. The Scarpa Freedom is too much boot and really no different thant he Cochise. I don't have elf feet, so the TLT6 ain't gonna cut it. I red up on the Scott (Garmont) Cosmos and they might do the trick. But no local dealers, it seems. Fuck.

WWMD: find a proper shop with a knowledge AT boot fitter? What other boots should I try? Go all mad scientist on something and make it work? Say fuck it and post hole the skintrack and get my teeth kicked in? Buy the blue boots?

[swerve]

Do you have the micro adjust buckles on the cochise? I had to play with the adjustment on the second buckle from the toe to keep my heel from getting blisters but also not cut off circulation and crush my instep. Once I got it dialed in no more heel blisters and my foot feels fine on longer full day tours.
That doesn't really address wanting lighter or more ROM from the walk mode but you might be able to get your current boots working better.

edit - if you are looking for some Mobes I have some 28 shells that I will be putting up in gear swap this week. Just gotta get around to taking pictures.

[XavierD]

Atomic Waymaker 110 Tour in a size smaller than your Cochise,
You could try tossing your cochise in an oven for a bit than put them on, might get a bit of heel shrink. Or figure out what is rubbing your foot and grind that part out.

Fischer is reportedly going to make a vacuum dedicated AT boot next year.

[grskier]

Edit:
Sorry, missed it the first read... what is said ankle wrap? have you tried a few cm of foam just above the achilles?

[kc_7777]

Hi,

My short feet...like yours but without the skinny ankles:

Me:
normal, ankle...wrecked from soccer
high and hairy instep
wide forefoot and midfoot
high arch

Are you getting the blisters while touring, or while skiing?

Not sure if this will help. But I have the 2013 Tecnica Cochise Pro AT. Is it different than the original Cochise? Anyway, I bot a 24.5 shell (290mm) for a tight fit. I have the stock Palau liner.

Only modifications is I added Superfeet insoles and a Booster strap instead of the stock Tecnica shin strap.

Not sure if this would help skinny ankles but I did the "boil your Tecnica boot" method on blistergear.....my various boots have given me problems for years (Tecnica Phoenix HVL, Salomon SPK Pros, Salomon X3s, Salomons Ghosts, Scarpas).

After doing this, and 7 ski days, my 2013 Cochises feel like slippers now. I put foam on the bumps/spurs on my feet when I did the boil. Man are they comfy. I even drove in them from Glacier to Baker on Sat.

I may even add the stock Tecnica strap back on over top of the booster for more shin support....ie run the booster inside right on the linertongue , and the stock strap outside on the shell?

This probably does'nt help your problem....but it works:

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...odacious-boots

[onenerdykid]

Atomic Waymaker 110 Tour in a size smaller than your Cochise

The Waymaker Tour 110 is definitely built for wider, higher volume feet with a narrow heel still. Intuition liner, swappable norm grip pads, and 35° cuff ROM so it should be something to check out.

[mntlion]

technica magnum? (102mm with cochise upper)

technica agent BC was a HUGE volume boot.

[Meadow Skipper]

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/sca...r-men~p~6385r/

Try on, evaluate, keep or return. They have a boot board that can be ground for more instep room. Pretty light, fair ROM.

ASM1416S <- discount code for good deal.

[Bobcat Sig]

Switch to snowboarding, seriously. The boots are better and after touring and packing up lame ass poles, going downhill is way more freedom filled fun.

GTFO. Knuckle dragging so I can post-hole the skin track, slide all the snow off the hill and sit down in the wrong place? Fuck that noise.

Do you have the micro adjust buckles on the cochise? I had to play with the adjustment on the second buckle from the toe to keep my heel from getting blisters but also not cut off circulation and crush my instep. Once I got it dialed in no more heel blisters and my foot feels fine on longer full day tours.
That doesn't really address wanting lighter or more ROM from the walk mode but you might be able to get your current boots working better.

edit - if you are looking for some Mobes I have some 28 shells that I will be putting up in gear swap this week. Just gotta get around to taking pictures.

The trick with my instep is that is right under the third buckle. Anything but light tension crushes it. The fourth buckle with anything but light tension smashes my toe box. And given my flipper feet, I need the volume.

The Mobe has been recommended a few times. Yes, let's talk. I seem to be about a 28 in all the other AT boots I've tried.

Edit:
Sorry, missed it the first read... what is said ankle wrap? have you tried a few cm of foam just above the achilles?

The ankle wrap is one of those butterfly things stuck the back of my Intuition. It helps, but it doesn't hold the heel down while skinning. Works well enough skiing.

Hi,

My short feet...like yours but without the skinny ankles:

Me:
normal, ankle...wrecked from soccer
high and hairy instep
wide forefoot and midfoot
high arch

Are you getting the blisters while touring, or while skiing?

Not sure if this will help. But I have the 2013 Tecnica Cochise Pro AT. Is it different than the original Cochise? Anyway, I bot a 24.5 shell (290mm) for a tight fit. I have the stock Palau liner.

Only modifications is I added Superfeet insoles and a Booster strap instead of the stock Tecnica shin strap.

Not sure if this would help skinny ankles but I did the "boil your Tecnica boot" method on blistergear.....my various boots have given me problems for years (Tecnica Phoenix HVL, Salomon SPK Pros, Salomon X3s, Salomons Ghosts, Scarpas).

After doing this, and 7 ski days, my 2013 Cochises feel like slippers now. I put foam on the bumps/spurs on my feet when I did the boil. Man are they comfy. I even drove in them from Glacier to Baker on Sat.

I may even add the stock Tecnica strap back on over top of the booster for more shin support....ie run the booster inside right on the linertongue , and the stock strap outside on the shell?

This probably does'nt help your problem....but it works:

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...odacious-boots

Blisters while skinning. I"ve though about that AT Pro, but the narrow last is a recipe for disaster with my high volume feet. Couple that with their high volume ankle pocket and I don't think it will work. I can check it out again, but I retain the limited ROM from my current Cochise.

I'll check out the boiling method. Might be worth a shot to suck up the ankle volume.


In other news, has anyone had any success with a tongue liner with laces? I'm wondering if locking in my ankle to the liner and having the liner rub might be a better option ...

[whatsupdoc]

BD Quadrant has a high volume forefoot and a good amount of instep room. Might be worth trying especially with Intuition liners. It's been surpassed by some of the more modern boots like the Maestrale RS and Mercury, but it still tours and skis pretty well.

[XXX-er]

I. Mercury and subsequently the Maestrale RS; neither fit my high instep. Too much pressure. Of the two, the RS fit the worst.
I'm also finding that I'd like to go longer/farther and cutting weight in my boots and gaining more range of motion is a very good thing.
On the Mercury (and the One), only two shops carry them in the region and neither felt confident in boot work necessary to get them to fit properly.

My feet:
skinny ankle
high and bony instep
wide forefoot and midfoot
high arch

My wants:
excellent ankle hold (a la my Langes)
proper range of motion
lighter weight
high volume in the arch/instep
wide toe box
stiff-ish flex; 110-120

The Mercury (and the One) and the Maestrale RS (and Mango) all seem to be out due to not enough instep height.

I got the same kind of foot LOTS of people myself included found the mercury too tight on the instep

if you found the toe room is good and you already own a set of intuitions try the Mercury shells on with your old liner

[gregL]

Try on the La Sportiva Spectre, definitely higher in the instep than the Dynafit FreeTouring line with a great feature set, and fits my ~103mm wide foot well out of the box. Or maybe the Atomic Waymaker 110 Tour with a custom ankle wrap to fill up the cuff volume?

[Bobcat Sig]

I got the same kind of foot LOTS of people myself included found the mercury too tight on the instep

if you found the toe room is good and you already own a set of intuitions try the Mercury shells on with your old liner

Will do. Thanks for the tip.

Try on the La Sportiva Spectre, definitely higher in the instep than the Dynafit FreeTouring line with a great feature set, and fits my ~103mm wide foot well out of the box. Or maybe the Atomic Waymaker 110 Tour with a custom ankle wrap to fill up the cuff volume?

I'll also check out the Spectre. I need to see if a local shop carries it.

[shafty85]

I'm no boot fitter, but I have a similar foot to yours (though perhaps not as high of an arch) and the Mercury is doing awesome for me. Awesome heel hold. Similar to XXX-er's advice, the Dynafit liners were terrible for my arch, but with intuitions and some punching for width, I'm loving them. my $0.02

[Bobcat Sig]

I'm no boot fitter, but I have a similar foot to yours (though perhaps not as high of an arch) and the Mercury is doing awesome for me. Awesome heel hold. Similar to XXX-er's advice, the Dynafit liners were terrible for my arch, but with intuitions and some punching for width, I'm loving them. my $0.02

Nice. Thank you for the data point.

The issue I have found with the local dealers is that they weren't confident in punching the Mercury as those shops are more Alpine focused.

I'll keep digging.

[auvgeek]

I'm no boot fitter, but I have a similar foot to yours (though perhaps not as high of an arch) and the Mercury is doing awesome for me. Awesome heel hold. Similar to XXX-er's advice, the Dynafit liners were terrible for my arch, but with intuitions and some punching for width, I'm loving them. my $0.02

Same here. I just tried a sized-down (26) vulcan on with the Intuition HD Race from my alpine boots and they fit *great*. I had previously tried the size 27 with the stock liner, as well as the Pro Tour (from my Maestrale RS) and it was way too tight around my instep, even in the larger size. I think the sole height of the Pro Tour and the stock liner is simply too high. I tried on the size smaller thinking I'd have to do a massive punch in the instep height, but it seems like the thinner liner is the key. I don't have a particularly high arch, though.

[fatnslow]

Have you tried a true race liner in the Cochise ? I had a Salomon Falcon liner that held my skinny ankle down like a vice. You might just look around and see if you can try on some liners only and walk around and check ankle/heel retention. If it holds well you can always fill excess toe box vollume with padding to fill the space between the liner and shell since most race liners will be lasted for a 95'ish shell. I generally have to tweek my own boots since most fitters are not good or very expensive and require multiple visits. In my experience the old gen Salomon Falcon liner and Atomic CS series offered great heel retention and the Head's were super sloppy and required a shit load of padding. In terms of mid foot/instep hot stops you can always move your buckles. You can ge a rivet gun at Harbor Freight for about $10 and a drill is really all you need to experiment a bit. If you are looking to move away form your current boots what do you have to lose ?

[XXX-er]

Quote Originally Posted by skialpy View Post
Exactly, the seams land right on the top of the metatarsal head (i think thats what its called??) causing a lot of pain when the middle buckle is clamped down. I may try cutting up some elastic and stitching it in a different orientation to keep the tongue down . Currently having to push the tongue down each time I take the boot off.
Attachment 144928
OK since the stock liners are useless to me and just sitting on the shelf I thot WTF not try this mod SO I removed this^^ piece on one liner and left the other for comparison ^^ as per skialpy, AND so just standing around the mancave there is a very noticable difference in the amount of pressure on the 1st metatarsal as in I think I could actualy ski the liner with the piece removed

It was pretty easy to remove that piece without fucking anything up, just cut the stitches with a razor blade it takes 5 min, as skialpy mentioned the tongue doesn't stay down so well after removing the cover piece but there is a BIG difference

edit: I measured the thickness of that piece with calipers, its 2-3mm thick where they stack no wonder it hurts, if that piece was left out and 2 more sets of lace loops were sewn into the liner lower down to keep the tongue in place the liner would work WAY better


^^^

If you own mercuy's and have pressure on top of the foot on the 1st metatarsus it might be cuz all that shit palau sewed to the top of the stock liner is 3mm thick and is quite irritating IME, unpick the stitching and remove that black thing and you will have relief

[Bobcat Sig]

Same here. I just tried a sized-down (26) vulcan on with the Intuition HD Race from my alpine boots and they fit *great*. I had previously tried the size 27 with the stock liner, as well as the Pro Tour (from my Maestrale RS) and it was way too tight around my instep, even in the larger size. I think the sole height of the Pro Tour and the stock liner is simply too high. I tried on the size smaller thinking I'd have to do a massive punch in the instep height, but it seems like the thinner liner is the key. I don't have a particularly high arch, though.

I did find a shop in town with a full size run of the Mecury. I'll dabble with half sizes to see what I can get. I'm also taking my Intuition Power Wraps with me for giggles.

Have you tried a true race liner in the Cochise ? I had a Salomon Falcon liner that held my skinny ankle down like a vice. You might just look around and see if you can try on some liners only and walk around and check ankle/heel retention. If it holds well you can always fill excess toe box vollume with padding to fill the space between the liner and shell since most race liners will be lasted for a 95'ish shell. I generally have to tweek my own boots since most fitters are not good or very expensive and require multiple visits. In my experience the old gen Salomon Falcon liner and Atomic CS series offered great heel retention and the Head's were super sloppy and required a shit load of padding. In terms of mid foot/instep hot stops you can always move your buckles. You can ge a rivet gun at Harbor Freight for about $10 and a drill is really all you need to experiment a bit. If you are looking to move away form your current boots what do you have to lose ?

I thought about remolding the Cochise or a different liner, but I'd like to cut some weight and get some range of motion. I'll still probably keep the Cochise. I mean, one can never have too much in the boot quiver.

If you own mercuy's and have pressure on top of the foot on the 1st metatarsus it might be cuz all that shit palau sewed to the top of the stock liner is 3mm thick and is quite irritating IME, unpick the stitching and remove that black thing and you will have relief

I'll check that tonight, as well. That might be a big help. I also noticed that in the stock Mercury liner, there's a burly seam that runs right up the middle of the foot.


In other news, the local shop that carries the Spectre is now out and is probably unable to get any more. To compound that, they are carrying Scott this year, but have not seen the boots yet, nor do they know when they are to come in. Go figure...

[shafty85]

Same here. I just tried a sized-down (26) vulcan on with the Intuition HD Race from my alpine boots and they fit *great*. I had previously tried the size 27 with the stock liner, as well as the Pro Tour (from my Maestrale RS) and it was way too tight around my instep, even in the larger size. I think the sole height of the Pro Tour and the stock liner is simply too high. I tried on the size smaller thinking I'd have to do a massive punch in the instep height, but it seems like the thinner liner is the key. I don't have a particularly high arch, though.

My thoughts exactly. I'm using pro-tours and with my custom footbeds I have a little pressure on the instep, but without I have LOADS of instep room (though I still need a little more width). I'm going to swap the pro-tours out for my pro-tongues and see if the thinner footbed solves that issue (I suspect that it will).

I did find a shop in town with a full size run of the Mecury. I'll dabble with half sizes to see what I can get. I'm also taking my Intuition Power Wraps with me for giggles.

I don't think the half size will make much difference for you - it will be about liner and punching for width (if you have a wider foot).

Likely, no boot will fit you awesome out of the box - all of mine have taken work to get them fitting nicely.

[XXX-er]

I also noticed that in the stock Mercury liner, there's a burly seam that runs right up the middle of the foot...

I don't think that big seam would be a problem, once you take that piece off the front of the liner you would see that the burly seam is only out over the end of the liner at the toe box and doesnt extend up the front of the foot, in fact the tongue goes almost all the way to the toe joints and the whole area of the liner over the forefoot is open and anyway the seam is NOT obtrusive on the foot

don't they use the same shell for the whole and half size, in other words a 26 and a 26.5 would be the exact same shell with different liners?