Who is done with rocker and prefers Camber?

[Cyber Cop]

I want to see travis ride the hammock in deeper. Is that flick out yet? It seems like there are a lot of cool designs that could come out of the fat waist. I guess they have a stupid patent or something, but I'm surprised not a single other company has tried a similar design.

And patenting rocker profiles is fucking retarded. I'm boycotting neversummer and probably wouldn't buy cheap chineeese mervin shit anyway.

[DasBlunt]

Deeper is out. Travis only got a very few, maybe less than 3, shots, one on the hammock I believe.

Reverse Sidecut, which is the Banana Hammock's main design, along with Banana Rocker, is not patentable. And that shit would suck to ride on anything but the deep fresh.

[Cyber Cop]

I've got deep fresh. I like the idea, but I'm not paying stupid prices for an outsourced board.

How did travis only get three shots? Seems silly for all the hype. How is the film? Can you download it?

[tripice351]

I want to see travis ride the hammock in deeper. Is that flick out yet? It seems like there are a lot of cool designs that could come out of the fat waist. I guess they have a stupid patent or something, but I'm surprised not a single other company has tried a similar design.

And patenting rocker profiles is fucking retarded. I'm boycotting neversummer and probably wouldn't buy cheap chineeese mervin shit anyway.

Here's another reverse sidecut and reverse camber board:

edit; it was a custom. but TGR gold, I'm guessing you'll remember it?

[ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172742"]Igneous R/R/C snowboard picture time! - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

[Cyber Cop]

Here's another reverse sidecut and reverse camber board:

edit; it was a custom. but TGR gold, I'm guessing you'll remember it?

Igneous R/R/C snowboard picture time! - Teton Gravity Research Forums

sweet, no I did not see that. I need one bad. Ooooo I am in trouble now.

[spaztwelve]

Cliff notes: Rocker is for people who don't mind giving up control and stability at speed.

Eh...I suppose I'm a dinosaur. 36 and 23 years of riding. Skied before that and now ski again. I tried various rocker boards and they were completely lost on me. You sacrifice a lot of edge control for what? For more lift in deep snow? I never felt the need for more lift in snow (unless I was riding some cut down variation...low profile, or whatever they call it). I want high speed edge control on all conditions and I don't want my tail to easily wash out in deep snow.

Now I've come back to skiing (new/old challenge revisited) and I find the same thing with a caveat. The wider a ski gets, the less edge contact I want but I still want real edge contact, the kind that is only available on a cambered board/ski.

I think new fat skis with early rise tips and camber under foot will win the day, because, at the end of the day, they need to turn on variable conditions. This is the case, of course if you want a truly useful ski (Although you may want a 100% powder-only ski...but I still don't see the GLARING advantage of full rocker vs. early rise tip. Skiers learned something from snowboarders a long time ago...and now they have something else to learn.

What I'm referencing when I bring up the lessons of snowboarders is that boarders have known what works well in deep snow for a long time and have made variations over the years. Take the Avalanche Damien Dagger, for instance. This board came out in the late 80’s, featured a long early-rise nose and a shorter upturned tail. The sidecut was set back and the rider position was centered on the side cut.

Since then, nothing has really changed. I just picked up a Never Summer Summit 172 on here and I already know it’s going to be a great powder board. It has all the right design features and will work ok on groomers. Surprise, surprise, it has a longer early rise nose and the sidecut/camber is set back on the board but meant to be centered on the stance. I put it up to a Winter Stick Tom Burt pro model I have from 2001 or so and it’s for all intents and purposes the same shape. In the end, all of this translates to a board that floats in deeper snow but maintains REAL edge control and stability on variable (harder) conditions.

Funny thing is, any snowboard works pretty well in powder. New fat skis work way better in powder than their narrower brothers and sisters.

Side note: I still hit park hits and rails, so I’m more of a velociraptor than a tyrannosaurus rex.

[spaztwelve]

Oh and...

Skiers WAY overthink design because they have a complex. They've been marketed to for years by ski companies claiming new technologies (but there's been no real new and game-changing technology for 30 year).

And before you say "but, but, but...", deeper sidecut was not a new technology. Snowboarders just realized you could carve easier (natural turn on a snowboard) if you had a deeper sidecut. The only way you could have a deeper sidecut on skis was to make them wider.

Want them to float more? More surface area. Built the float into the tips (and tail for switch). Center on the cambered sidecut for honest to goodness edge control.

I really love this thread.

[doughboyshredder]

Agree on posts regarding high speed stability issues w/rockered boards. It's unfortunate(for us riders in minority) that Never Summer is putting all their eggs in this basket.

Anyone got a traditional cambered Premier 172 for sale?

I've got a cambered legacy. 2007 170(I think) only used 15 times or so. Will sell for 300.

Personally I have always thought that full, or underfoot rocker on snowboards is pointless in all but perfect untracked. Tip and tail rocker on the other hand is money.

[Shepherd Wong]

I've got a cambered legacy. 2007 170(I think) only used 15 times or so. Will sell for 300.

Personally I have always thought that full, or underfoot rocker on snowboards is pointless in all but perfect untracked. Tip and tail rocker on the other hand is money.

My experience with rocker in the middle (neversummer RC) is that the difference in powder is minimal, the biggest difference is in firm stuff, mostly off piste. I find it a change for the better here. It frees up the initiation part while still bites on edge the same.

[SWskier]

well said spaztwelve.

[XXX-er]

I think new fat skis with early rise tips and camber under foot will win the day, because, at the end of the day, they need to turn on variable conditions.

this works for me

I don't board and I havent tried full rocker but I DID try early rise on with camber underfoot on a non-pow demo day and they worked well enough on everything untracked/groomers/bumps that I bought some

[Vitamin I]

...I think most people widen their stance for stability. Not to get more camber effects, whatever you mean by that. I like to turn and I like pop...

Then you agreed with me. On skis, "more camber" means distributing more pressure to the extremities of the ski, which means "more fore/aft stability". Like you said, on snowboard, wider stance means more stability. That's what I meant when I originally said widen your stance to get "more camber" effects---more fore/aft stability. Skiers do not have that option with one foot per ski (but we DO have the unique option to separate our feet for side-to-side stability/recovery). So I guess you tried to disagree with me because maybe you just think "pop" when you hear "camber"...I don't know.

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[Vitamin I]

spaztwelve, it sounds like you know your favorite design, and maybe you prefer to stick with your favorite instead of mixing it up. Cool. But I like the variety of both, so for me it's not "either or".

...Want them to float more? More surface area. Built the float into the tips (and tail for switch). Center on the cambered sidecut for honest to goodness edge control.

I mostly agree. Those simple concepts make a great ski. I will always have a ski (or skis) like that in my quiver. The main reason to pursue other ski designs is just for variety, or a different balance of tradeoffs between powder/firm/all-around performance---to get new ski designs IN ADDITION for variety, not as an "absolutely better" substitute. A second reason to pursue new designs is to keep the niche off-piste ski market stimulated---so it can stay healthy enough to survive and serve us.

...Skiers WAY overthink design because they have a complex. They've been marketed to for years by ski companies claiming new technologies (but there's been no real new and game-changing technology for 30 year)...

In my case, my "complex" has nothing to do with being marketed to. I don't care about originality of technologies---I just want the market to deliver decent stuff to me, which is NOT a given. Read on.

...I think new fat skis with early rise tips and camber under foot will win the day...

I don't think that. In skiing, narrow groomer skis always win the day. Always have. Always will. Because we skiers all point our feet forward, with narrow width feet, whether beginner or expert. It took a lot of bitching by off-piste skiers over the years to get the market to provide decent off-piste ski designs. And now that it's decent, maybe there's a feeling that if off-piste skiers go silent, then the market will just evolve back towards 100% skinny groomer skis, where the money is. That might partially explain off-piste skiers' "complex", as you say.

...Funny thing is, any snowboard works pretty well in powder. New fat skis work way better in powder than their narrower brothers and sisters.

Exactly. Snowboarders have little to worry about---no matter how badly the market gets steered, even the shittiest beginner groomer snowboard is gonna be wide enough to accomodate your sideways foot, so your off-piste float is secure---no complex for you.

...Take the Avalanche Damien Dagger...late 80’s...nothing has really changed...

Exactly. History suggests you snowboarders have security. Off-piste skiers do NOT. My complex is that stagnation or complacence will return us to the "good ol' days", which were NOT very good for off-piste skiers.

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[legallyillegal]

I want to see travis ride the hammock in deeper. Is that flick out yet? It seems like there are a lot of cool designs that could come out of the fat waist. I guess they have a stupid patent or something, but I'm surprised not a single other company has tried a similar design.

And patenting rocker profiles is fucking retarded. I'm boycotting neversummer and probably wouldn't buy cheap chineeese mervin shit anyway.

reverse/reverse? come on this is tgr, theres tons of that shit around

snowboards? afaik other than customs like iggys, only libtech and twisted (kiteboards) do that

[spook]

just bought me a jones flagship. i'm so jacked i can't wait.

[doughboyshredder]

just bought me a jones flagship. i'm so jacked i can't wait.

Nice! Congrats!

Think you could take a side profile pic and post it up. All they have on the website is "special rocker", and I'd love to see how much tip and tail rocker it actually has.

[spook]

Nice! Congrats!

Think you could take a side profile pic and post it up. All they have on the website is "special rocker", and I'd love to see how much tip and tail rocker it actually has.

i will when i actually get it. they only had a 158 and i wanted the 162 and the 162 doesn't come in until later in the week. but i got it 15% off if i bought it this weekend, so i pulled the trigger.

[boltonoutlaw]

Just sold the first board with rocker that I've ever bought & ridden. Not my thing.

[spook]

the flagship design:

A hybrid rocker/camber flex pattern defined by more tip rocker then tail rocker and slight camber between the bindings. The rockered tip gives the nose added float and improves maneuverability while the camber underfoot gives you added edge hold and response. A slightly rockered tail maintains the power and stability of a traditional board but helps keep the tail catch-free initiating turns and landing switch.

http://www.jonessnowboards.com/boards/flagship/designs

[DasBlunt]

So, I am over rocker completely. I rode all last season on rockered boards and I can't believe the difference.

Day one was on the JOnes flagship....it was a pow day (2 feet), so it did not matter much. Board was super fast and stable.

today was day 2 and I rode my old 2009 Capita BSOD speed tribe camber board, spring conditions and they opened up some new areas with LOTS of hot pow.....so fun.

Camber rips in and out of turns BETTER on groomers, no brainer there.

in pow, slashes are just more fun and the board rises to the top BETTER. You have to pay attention to the nose a little more, but....fuck it, rocker is a fad, is slower, and works in hybrid OK.

[DasBlunt]

yes to camber.