50 years to the day

[ktoor]

A note on the indigenous decolonization argument. Documented genealogical, historical and archaeological evidence shows Jews are an ethnic group who come from Israel. If the argument Israel as a "a colonial state" justifies murder, that's something which ignores you can't colonize the land your ancestors are from.

The fact is we're all settlers of some sort so we need to make a distinction between settlements encroaching on modern agreed upon borders and 'settlers' as a broad category unto itself.

ive heard this many many times. almost verbatim weirdly enough...its propoganda. not going to argue with it here, you can take it up with the UN and HRW. other authors like finklestein and chomsky have taken up amore point-by-point counterargument that i wouldnt do justice to here.

for the comment above saying the settler-colonial aspect shouldnt be part of the discussion, i dont see why it shouldnt as it provides quite an important starting point for the discussion (written eloquently from a theoretical and practical perspective in wretched of the earth).

i dont expect to change anyones mind about the conflict here tbh but felt it important to respond so others dont feel alienated by having views that are unfortunately taboo in the western mainstream media.


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[MultiVerse]

It's a matter of historical record so I'm not sure where one draws the line between history and verbatim? And I'm not sure the colonization view is taboo anymore given it's become a core curriculum in Western universities for decades. It might be a third rail for western mainstream media but it's doctrinaire for a generation in the West.

[neckdeep]

My opinion is that this is a bad argument to make:

Attachment 472432
.

Let's go back and undo every border change since WW1 and then, reparations for everybody!

[J. Barron DeJong]

for the comment above saying the settler-colonial aspect shouldnt be part of the discussion, i dont see why it shouldnt as it provides quite an important starting point for the discussion (written eloquently from a theoretical and practical perspective in wretched of the earth).

My point is that both sides believe they have a historical right to that land, and there is no argument that will change their minds, no matter how eloquently made.

So it seems to me that if the goal is a negotiated peace, discussions about who has a historical right to that land is just going to be a barrier to that goal.

[dunfree]

Fuck Chomsky. That stupid piece of shit thought Cambodian genocide stories were propaganda, like so many other deluded pieces of 70s trash. Still smug and pretending he wasn’t an idiot like Malcolm Caldwell

[PNWbrit]

My opinion is that this is a bad argument to make:

Who gives a fuck what her opinion is. Googled: an "expert" on feminism in video games.

Why the fuck are you even reading her opinion? Let alone sharing it here.

JFC.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Who gives a fuck what her opinion is. Googled: an "expert" on feminism in video games.

Why the fuck are you even reading her opinion? Let alone sharing it here.

JFC.

It’s a meme that’s being shared, not just her. And I shared it here because the topic of settler colonialism came up.

[PNWbrit]

It’s a meme.

You're not helping yourself here.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Article on the current situation in Gaza:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023...black-box.html

Official reports relay the grim tally of the past few days. The Gaza Health Ministry said on Wednesday that more than 1,000 people have been killed, 260 of them children, with another 4,500 wounded. As Israel amasses forces on the border for a potential ground offensive, the bombing raids are not letting up with hundreds of air strikes every day. Entire neighborhoods, such as the Rimal district in Gaza City, have been obliterated. Some 180,000 people are holed up in United Nations schools and shelters, with the rest left unprotected. The trauma center at Gaza’s largest hospital, Dar Al-Shifa, is reportedly so overwhelmed that doctors have stopped treating bones crushed by debris and are focusing only on life-threatening injuries.

The hospital’s director, Dr. Muhammad al-Salmiya, said that the number of injured patients waiting for treatment is four times Dar Al-Shifa’s capacity. “You know, it is very difficult to run an electrical generator for 18 hours a day,” Salmiya told NPR. “And, of course, the generators we have do not support the amount of equipment we need to use.” The hospital has already limited its electricity usage to essential tasks, but the generators will soon go offline too: Gaza’s health minister said that the fuel needed to operate them will run out on Thursday. A spokesperson for the International Committee of the Red Cross warned that such a scenario “will turn hospitals into graveyards.”

The siege, and Israel’s refusal to allow for humanitarian corridors to supply relief, is making life virtually impossible for everyone in the territory. Former United Nations officials expect that food will run out within days. “We’ve got supplies for 12 days for food and water,” Jennifer Austin, deputy director of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees, told Al Jazeera. “Roads are blocked, we don’t have telephone lines, we have had networks hit by air strikes. It is really difficult for us to know what’s happening.” One of the U.N. shelters suffered a direct hit from an Israeli bomb on Sunday, and five more schools being used as shelters were damaged on Monday.

[J. Barron DeJong]

You're not helping yourself here.

Ok. How about, it’s a meme that outlines a point of view that a not insignificant number of people hold, which was related to a particular point of discussion that was brought up here.

If it makes you feel better, you can read the argument in long form rather than meme:

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinio...s-what-it-does

[Cono Este]

To any American questioning whose land that is, you could go to the library and spend the weekend in the Mideast section, or you could look at your own feet, and ask what tribe you took your from. Do you even know their names?

I had to look mine up, Osage. Haven’t seen one in 15 yrs.

Whose land is yours?

[JimmyCarter]

To any American questioning whose land that is, you could go to the library and spend the weekend in the Mideast section, or you could look at your own feet, and ask what tribe you took your from. Do you even know their names?

I had to look mine up, Osage.

Whose land is yours?

You assume it was Osage because they were the tribe the white people found there, but who did they take it from? It’s turtles all the way down!

[Cono Este]

You assume it was Osage because they were the tribe the white people found there, but who did they take it from? It’s turtles all the way down!

Id ask them, it it seems we either killed them all, or sent them packing. Didn’t even leave a casino behind.

[MontuckyFried]

Some of the scenes from the pro-Palestine rallies around the world have been disturbing. Pretty damn Hitler-ish how these pieces of shit are yelling "GAS THE JEWS! F- THE JEWS!"
https://twitter.com/AustralianJA/sta...01583295680694

NOT a good look if they want to gain anybody's sympathies. Seriously though. The authorities need to add these assholes to their terror watch lists as well.

[BmillsSkier]

You assume it was Osage because they were the tribe the white people found there, but who did they take it from? It’s turtles all the way down!

I've been known to give some back to the Seneca whenever I'm up their way.

[JimmyCarter]

I've been known to give some back to the Seneca whenever I'm up their way.

I split my donations between the Mohegan and Mashantucket Pequot Tribes, but it’s been a while since I’ve been charitable. I should look into that.

[J. Barron DeJong]

It’s not an argument only being made on the fringe:



https://x.com/joshtpm/status/1712203...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[boltonoutlaw]

...I had to look mine up, Osage. Haven’t seen one in 15 yrs.

Most were exterminated. There is a movie coming out in nine days that might interest you

[gravitylover]

I've been known to give some back to the Seneca whenever I'm up their way.

Yup, lotsa good weed stores there. There's also a casino and the biggest garbage dump in the state. The upwind areas are nice.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://x.com/samstein/status/171221...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[Evil E]

If anyone comes across any podcast or interviews worth listening to on this topic I’d be grateful if you shared them.


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[MontuckyFried]

For those foolish enough to believe if Israel only ceded land, THEN that would pacify the extremists once and for all, please look back in the history books. I have stacks of old Readers Digests going back to the 20s and it is absolutely surreal to read about an America wrestling with what to do about Germany, Japan, Communism, etc. leading up to WWII. Reading about Nazi tourists in America and their perspectives is absolutely wild. Anyway, here's a bit about whether or not to believe Adolf from 1938...





You could give them ALL the land of Israel, and that absolutely will not be enough due to the edicts of the most extreme form of their religion calling for the institution of a worldwide caliphate. They demand conversion by the sword. Many don't seem to believe this, BUT Israel in no small part symbolizes holding the line for the rest of the world. If Israel were to fall (as is the goal of Hamas), they'd go after the rest of the Western world next. Starting with Europe. Judging by the rallies around the world where those dickbags are waiving ISIS flags and chanting "gas the Jews," it looks like they're more than happy to kick that off as soon as they get the green light.

[Evil E]

It would have to be a remarkable podcast capable of telling contradictory truths simultaneously about a place too cramped to divide easily and too obsessed with historical and religious claims for judicious negotiation—claims that each side has at times recognized about the other.

I’m just trying to read and listen to as much as I can and was wondering if anyone had come across anything they thought was valuable to help them understand the situation. I hear your point, and that’s why I’m asking , most things I’m reading are strongly biased and lack objectivity.


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[ex-powderbroker]

my leftie friend recommended a “principled communist” look at the situation and i kind of want to drive to philly to ask her wtf happened to her brain.

so yeah, lots of propaganda. but, the daily was actually pretty strong today.

[mcski]

I’m just trying to read and listen to as much as I can and was wondering if anyone had come across anything they thought was valuable to help them understand the situation. I hear your point, and that’s why I’m asking , most things I’m reading are strongly biased and lack objectivity.


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Ian Bremmer posts regularly. I wouldn’t call him a podcast but he puts out very solid info on international affairs