Real Estate Crash thread

[fastfred]

I have a client who received two PPP loans and significant ERC funds every quarter it was available. They reported an operating loss in 2020, with PPP forgiveness and ERC money resulting in positive NI. What do they do? Distribute all of that money to the two owners. One bought another house in Arizona and the other was using the funds to pay off debt in personally held commercial real estate. As a creditor and taxpayer this shit pisses me off. The rich get richer..

duh?

are you talking about my business? I took a loss in 2020 also and I didn't write the tax code or the rules I just follow them to a T
not sure how you take a loss on seven figures income and a shit ton of free money but I'm good
hell I always get grilled when I have to review the tax forms every year all I think about is fucking sheep when the guy is talking and walking me through the ream of paper work
the irs has even audited me a twice and I do very well on that exam

like a said if the gov't is handing out money take it doesn't matter if its a subsidy a tax break welfare food stamps or just a plain hand out take it don't be shy

[Core Shot]

So you just decide your definition of "inflation" is the correct "Fact"?

The Federal reserve's basic defintion has fuck all to due with monetary supply: "Inflation is the increase in the prices of goods and services over time."

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/economy_14419.htm

Umm. Yeah. Let’s trust the federal reserve.
A non federal group of private bankers.
Who’s goal is to keep inflation at two percent.

Monetary inflation is well known.
Weimar Republic
Zimbabwe
Argentina.

But keep money printer brrrrrrrr

LMK how that works 7 trillion later.

Monetary inflation is not the same as consumer inflation.
But the former always always leads to the latter.
Wake the fuck up.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrr

[J. Barron DeJong]

Umm. Yeah. Let’s trust the federal reserve.
A non federal group of private bankers.
Who’s goal is to keep inflation at two percent.

Monetary inflation is well known.
Weimar Republic
Zimbabwe
Argentina.

But keep money printer brrrrrrrr

LMK how that works 7 trillion later.

Monetary inflation is not the same as consumer inflation.
But the former always always leads to the latter.
Wake the fuck up.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrr

Printing (but not literally ‘printing’ these days) -too much- money will lead to inflation, but there is in no way a direct correlation between the amount of money created and the price of goods and services, especially (but not exclusively) when Fed funds rate is at 0%.

[thedude2340]

I'd put my money on more total assholes as a percentage of population in Fort Collins.

I see a “Boulder v Larimer County % of Assholes Competition” thread in our future

[V.R.P]

duh?

are you talking about my business? I took a loss in 2020 also and I didn't write the tax code or the rules I just follow them to a T
not sure how you take a loss on seven figures income and a shit ton of free money but I'm good
hell I always get grilled when I have to review the tax forms every year all I think about is fucking sheep when the guy is talking and walking me through the ream of paper work
the irs has even audited me a twice and I do very well on that exam

like a said if the gov't is handing out money take it doesn't matter if its a subsidy a tax break welfare food stamps or just a plain hand out take it don't be shy

The rub is this is a federal contractor playing the set aside game, liquidating the corporate balance sheet for personal BS all while wanting more bond credit to pursue that work. It doesn’t work that way. I declined to support a $20MM bid for them earlier this year in which had they left that money in the company I would’ve given consideration. Oops.

[Danno]

I see a “Boulder v Larimer County % of Assholes Competition” thread in our future

we need to settle on the definition of asshole. If MAGA-hats qualify as assholes, Larimer may very well win. If we're just talking about entitled idiots with way too much money, driving Teslas and wearing patagonia evening wear, well, Boulder will win.

[RootSkier]

I have a client who received two PPP loans and significant ERC funds every quarter it was available. They reported an operating loss in 2020, with PPP forgiveness and ERC money resulting in positive NI. What do they do? Distribute all of that money to the two owners.

LOL show me a business that DIDN'T do this and I'll buy some swampland in Florida.

[4matic]

I see a “Boulder v Larimer County % of Assholes Competition” thread in our future

Rated on the Ogden scale?

[4matic]

If PPP money obtained legally was used to buy “toys” that was the intention. Stimulus. A yacht needs a lot of downstream support.

[The AD]

Here's the Wikipedia entry on allowable uses for the loaned PPP money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payche..._loan_proceeds

I don't see anything about yachts.

[4matic]

Here's the Wikipedia entry on allowable uses for the loaned PPP money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payche..._loan_proceeds

I don't see anything about yachts.

Crew are employees.

[Core Shot]

For businesses that did ok in Covid. Ppp was a gift.

I spent 80% of ppp to my employees paying them for 40 even though they only worked half weeks.
I was glad they showed up. Many of them could have made more money on Unenjoyment. $600 extra per week.

[The AD]

Crew are employees.

True. I don't think Foggy Goggles purchased a yacht, though.

I'll admit it rankles a bit to think that people may have been using these loans--and my tax dollars--for things that weren't actually paying employees or other business-related expenses.

[V.R.P]

Defending shysters to feel better about their own warped view of the world. All while bitching about inflation, labor, and supply issues. Fuck you, I got mine.

In these cases was the money technically used for “legitimate” purposes? Yes, but wow! What a coincidence. Big losses because of materials shortages, delays, and the resulting extended overhead with continued headwinds expected? Sounds like an opportune time to pull that same amount of money from retained earnings to me. I know of plenty of contractors that used that money for legitimate purposes and to continue to build their war chests to weather issues down the road. I personally can’t wait for a recession to weed out the pretenders.

[neufox47]

Umm. Yeah. Let’s trust the federal reserve.
A non federal group of private bankers.
Who’s goal is to keep inflation at two percent.

Monetary inflation is well known.
Weimar Republic
Zimbabwe
Argentina.

But keep money printer brrrrrrrr

LMK how that works 7 trillion later.

Monetary inflation is not the same as consumer inflation.
But the former always always leads to the latter.
Wake the fuck up.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrr

Jesus Christ are you obtuse. Show one credible source that agrees with your definition of inflation or Shut The Fuck Up and own your fail.

[Core Shot]

Jesus Christ are you obtuse. Show one credible source that agrees with your definition of inflation or Shut The Fuck Up and own your fail.

Were you always this stupid and unedumacated?

It only took me a second of googles.

Wtf.


=========

Monetary inflation is a sustained increase in the money supply of a country. Depending on many factors, especially public expectations, the fundamental state and development of the economy, and the transmission mechanism, it is likely to result in price inflation, which is usually just called "inflation", which is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services. There is general agreement among economists that there is a causal relationship between monetary inflation and price inflation. But there is neither a common view about the exact theoretical mechanisms and relationships, nor about how to accurately measure it. This relationship is also constantly changing, within a larger complex economic system.Wikipedia

[dunfree]

Defending shysters to feel better about their own warped view of the world. All while bitching about inflation, labor, and supply issues. Fuck you, I got mine.

In these cases was the money technically used for “legitimate” purposes? Yes, but wow! What a coincidence. Big losses because of materials shortages, delays, and the resulting extended overhead with continued headwinds expected? Sounds like an opportune time to pull that same amount of money from retained earnings to me. I know of plenty of contractors that used that money for legitimate purposes and to continue to build their war chests to weather issues down the road. I personally can’t wait for a recession to weed out the pretenders.

sure, pretenders got to kick the can. Some legitimate businesses didn’t get access to it and went under. But there seems to be a substantial forgetting of how bad, and how bad people thought it could get, in the early days. PPP prevented a lot of capacity destruction. The kind of capacity destruction that would have far longer lasting consequences

[4matic]

Simple Monetary theory has been largely dismissed.

[thedude2340]

we need to settle on the definition of asshole. If MAGA-hats qualify as assholes, Larimer may very well win. If we're just talking about entitled idiots with way too much money, driving Teslas and wearing patagonia evening wear, well, Boulder will win.

It’s delightfully nuanced. Throw in towns in county that might cancel each other out (Longmont v Loveland?) and you have a real worthwhile debate.

*worthwhile being relative of course

[Danno]

The very definition of inflation is an increase in monetary supply.

Fact.

Consumer inflation is more complicated. But usually arrives after monetary inflation.

So, by your own later post, you admit that "the very definition of inflation is an increase in monetary supply" is not correct, an increase in monetary supply is the very definition of "monetary inflation", a LDO statement and not at all the same as what people refer to as "inflation" or "price inflation" as your wiki calls it. Yet you're calling someone else stupid for calling you on your original statement.

And you act like it's an obvious given that increase in monetary supply will bring about rampant inflation, yet you post something way more nuanced (from wiki, no less):

There is general agreement among economists that there is a causal relationship between monetary inflation and price inflation. But there is neither a common view about the exact theoretical mechanisms and relationships, nor about how to accurately measure it. This relationship is also constantly changing, within a larger complex economic system.

Yet the people who call you on your incorrect statement are the uneducated ones. Yeah.

[Core Shot]

JFC.
You can nitpick on words. To me inflation is monetary. To you it’s consumer.

Potato potahto

Either way. Ask yourself. Why is shit going off the hook?
Putin Putin Putin?

Or maybe reckless money printing and spending?

Nah. It’s all putins fault.

[Brock Landers]

JFC.
You can nitpick on words. To me inflation is monetary. To you it’s consumer.

Potato potahto

Either way. Ask yourself. Why is shit going off the hook?
Putin Putin Putin?

Or maybe reckless money printing and spending?

Nah. It’s all putins fault.

Dood yer views on inflation are off. Take the L on this one.

If inflation was increase in money supply we’d have more than 1% inflation from 2010-2020.

Velocity of money is the term you’re looking for which gets you eventually to inflation. Maybe.

[Danno]

God you're a twat. Everyone in here, everyone in the fucking country, is talking about inflation as price inflation, FFS your own esteemed wiki link says "price inflation . . . is usually just called 'inflation'". Yet you barge in here, say the very definition of inflation is increase in monetary supply, defend it, call people stupid for disagreeing with you, and when finally and fully called on it, you say "JFC it's all semantics, and when *I* say 'inflation' I mean monetary inflation". And then finish it off with a big helping of confirmation bias, "I know increase in money supply leads to inflation, we increased the money supply over the last few years, and all of a sudden have a massive spike in inflation in the last few months, and it must be because of that increase in money supply that's been going on for years, and you guys are rubes for thinking it has anything to do with more recent global events."

It's absolutely dishonest to argue that way, and just proves that you're full of shit. But as I first noted, we shuld not expect anything different from a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. Ignore everyone else, hold on to the evidence I like and assume everything flows from that.

[Core Shot]

The US has been exporting its monetary inflation for many many decades.

Velocity is interesting.

M1. M2. M3. Wait whut? Why don’t we measure M3 anymore?

That died in 2006.

Even consumer inflation measure is fucked.

Substitution. Yeah. Fuck off. I want steak, not hamburger

[Core Shot]

Danno

Fair point. But it’s a thorn in my side.
Everyone thinks inflation is a mystical retail price increase.

Why.

Tell me. Please.


If you know what monetary inflation is Then you might understand price inflation.

But if you can explain this insanity of retail inflation I’m all ears.