Yo dude! Slow down!

[hortence]

yeah - it's not really a bright line rule. But the traditional "yield to uphill riders" rule also shouldn't be taken as gospel.

Can you explain why? I'm willing to think about it seriously as long as it's more than "because I like going fast downhill and stopping is a pain in the ass."

We have bright line rules precisely because there is always room for ambiguity.

And as noted above, the real answer is always more trails!

[hortence]

90% of the time I will yield if I see someone ripping down. I don't do it because it's a mt biking rule, I do it because it's the golden rule.

And you have a healthy sense of self-preservation as well. As a practical matter, this is how it usually ends up anyway. Hikers/bikers see you coming, they get off the trail. They're not doing it to be nice, they're doing because they are nervous and don't trust the rider.

[Danno]

And you have a healthy sense of self-preservation as well. As a practical matter, this is how it usually ends up anyway. Hikers/bikers see you coming, they get off the trail. They're not doing it to be nice, they're doing because they are nervous and don't trust the rider.

Sorry, I call bullshit on that. Uphill bikers who yield, at least every one I know, do so because of the golden rule, not self preservation. As for hikers, even those who aren't bikers so it isn't strictly golden rule, I imagine most yield for the same reason they yield everywhere else for bikers: because the formal rule is fine but doesn't reflect practical reality and expediency. It is simply easier and makes more sense for a hiker to step aside than it does for a biker to stop, lean off the trail to let the hiker by, then start again. Most people I encounter on the trails, whether I am biking or hiking, understand that common courtesy trumps bright line rules.

[TheMessenger]

Can you explain why? I'm willing to think about it seriously as long as it's more than "because I like going fast downhill and stopping is a pain in the ass."

We have bright line rules precisely because there is always room for ambiguity.

!

Who made up the "rule" anyway. It's seems rather arbitrary, and it would be more logical (and safe)would cause less conflict, and riding would be more fun, if everybody just got out of the way of those traveling downhill. It's what everybody does all the time anyway. Common sense.

[PowerWhore7]

As a hiker in CA I walk on a lot of multi-use trails, and honestly I wasn’t really aware of the golden rule but any time I see (or hear) a biker coming down hill I move aside for the following reasons...

A. It makes sense
2. I don’t like broken bones
X. Why fuck with someone’s stoke
C. Maybe, just maybe, you might see a crash

[Danno]

I like the cut of your jib.

And x is the golden rule.

[bendtheski]

IMO, the brightline rule exists because of gravity. Downhill yields because it's easier to re-start on the down than on the up. Plenty of self-righteous bikers, hikers and equestrians who will not yield, regardless of direction of travel, so there's that to throw into the mix too. Yeah, I hate to have my downhill flow interrupted, but it's not a race for fuck's sake, and ignoring accepted trail etiquette, and scaring people is a good way to get trails closed.

I guess I'm spoiled, because there are tons of choices for riding uncrowded trails right out my door, or a short drive away; the closest being the least crowded. Jeffco has done a lot of odd/even direction and usage regulation due to too many people using the same trails, and people basically being fuckwits regarding other trail users. Doesn't seem to be as much (or any) of an issue in Clear Creek. Here most of the hate is reserved for road riders.

"Yo dude! Slow down!"=teh ghey. Drop the bro-brah, and just say what you need to say; yield to uphill traffic.

[skinipenem]

I gotta admit that i feel bad when I scare the shit out of hikers although I stop well before I hit them, ten to fifteen feet before, then I superman off the bike and donkey punch then in the fart box.

[kidwoo]

Can you explain why? I'm willing to think about it seriously as long as it's more than "because I like going fast downhill and stopping is a pain in the ass."

We have bright line rules precisely because there is always room for ambiguity.

And as noted above, the real answer is always more trails!

When is your hearing working better, going 5mph uphill or going 15mph downhill? Which environment is changing more rapidly, that of a descender or that of a climber? And most importantly, which is easier for someone to do, stop going slowly uphill or stop suddenly with some momentum going downhill?

It's WAY easier and much more reliable for a climber to be aware of someone else than someone descending, coming around blind turns, trying to avoid obstacles, trying to maintain traction etc.....

I can hear someone coming downhill way before I can hear someone coming uphill while I'm descending. The idea that descenders must be aware of all climbers so that they can yield with no responsibility placed on the climber just doesn't make sense.

The yielding to uphill traffic thing comes from the idea that it's hard to get going again uphill. That's like rock crawler/jeep logic. Bikes are quite a bit different.

I'm not advocating people going downhill just need to expect everyone else to just get out of their way, that's retarded. There's certainly shared responsibility. But that's why sightlines are so important, because it's really all a descender has. There's too much else going on audibly. That's not some high minded opinion based on the fact that I like going downhill, it's just based on years and years worth of seeing what's more effective.

But problems arise when assholes in either direction believe they're in the right. I can hear someone descending towards me well before they're aware I'm even on the trail. But just sitting there continuing on with the full expectation that I will be yielded to is just an asshole move (and kind of dangerous, I don't trust anyone's skill whom I don't know). Expecting the world to accommodate you is where problems arise, descending OR climbing. I just move out of people's way when I hear or see them coming downhill because I have more time to do it. And let's be honest, there's a lot of people riding downhill on mountainbikes that are only aware of the space about 4 feet infront of their front wheel. That's not a lot of reaction space.

[toast2266]

Can you explain why? I'm willing to think about it seriously as long as it's more than "because I like going fast downhill and stopping is a pain in the ass."

We have bright line rules precisely because there is always room for ambiguity.

And as noted above, the real answer is always more trails!

Everything woo said.

And if I'm climbing and yield the right of way, it interrupts the enjoyment of my ride for ~5 seconds. If I yield while I'm descending, it's much more than that. I try to get out of the way of someone who's having a good time on the descent and I'd hope that fellow bikers would want to do the same for me. But then you get the dicks that absolutely refuse to scoot a little to the side of the trail because they're climbing and "the rules" say they have the right of way, even though all they'd need to do is scoot a little to the side - they wouldn't even need to stop pedaling. Fuck those guys.

[pfluffenmeister]

... I wore an onion on my belt ...

hahaha!!

and your avatar rocks.

[frorider]

I just yell 'Strava motherfuckers. Straaavvvvaaaa!' on the descent.

[kidwoo]

I just yell 'Strava motherfuckers. Straaavvvvaaaa!' on the descent.

I really have started doing this if I recognize the person climbing uphill.

I usually try to shoulder check them lightly too. It's way more fun for everyone, because I've eaten shit on a monumental scale doing this.

[BCMtnHound]

Dunno, maybe worked too many years dodging loaded logging trucks, but no matter the 2-way trail, always yield to traffic running favourable grade. It's just simple physics. But no matter who has the right of way I ALWAYS in a tight spot fight for the inside line (against the bank/cut slope). That and ride in control.

Only piss-off I have is when there are parallel trails for bikers and hikers, and walking downhill with the family on the hiker designate trail and douche comes ripping down on a pimped rig yelling get out of the way. If I didn't have the infant carrier on I'd of clotheslined the asshole.

[gravitylover]

^^ What woo said...

If I'm going up I'm much more likely to hear you coming down so I'm going to stop and wait for you to pass. If I happen to have been aware (lucky) enough to see you when I'm rollin' a downhill I'll slow down/move over/stop so you can continue climbing smoothly and not have to alter your line too much.

We have a couple of hiker grouches that hear you coming down and stand in the middle of the trail so you have to bail and then they yell at you for being the kind of person that shouldn't be allowed on the trail. A couple of weeks ago I had to carry my kids bike out of the woods because of one of these morons. My daughter was leading and this woman just kept walking towards her and they "met" on a steep section and the kid bailed off the trail rather than run into the old bag. While the kid was extricating herself form the situation the woman stood there screaming at the two of us that we should be banned from the park for life. Front wheel wrapped around the fork to the point where it took a hacksaw to cut it up to get it off the bike. The kid was fine but the woman was told to "watch her back" when she was in that park in the future.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

start fun police / You guys are wasting energy even thinking about this. No way a mutli-user trail would ever give the right of way to the dh rider (nor should they). That would effectively mean dh riders would have the right to just blow uphill riders/walkers up if they got in the way. /end fun police

[ridevt]

Another factor is how SILENT trail bikes are these days? Mine is just about silent and I live/ride on one of the most popular trail networks in Park City. Everyone seems to have their own ideas regarding trail etiquette but I just try and ride at times I know it won't be crowded. I hate the fucktards that act all annoyed as they stop their descent on Flying Dog on a Sunday afternoon.. I also rock a bear bell on my bike full time. It's annoying at 1st but people really appreciate it since you don't scare the shit out of them.

One other rant. Hikers and/or bikers w/ both ear pieces engaged. I feel no shame in skidding as long and fast as I can when approaching you on a trail. No sympathy. I'll ride with a single ear bud once in awhile but both? C'mon...

One thing that solves all of this= Riding at night.

[kidwoo]

start fun police / You guys are wasting energy even thinking about this. No way a mutli-user trail would ever give the right of way to the dh rider (nor should they). That would effectively mean dh riders would have the right to just blow uphill riders/walkers up if they got in the way. /end fun police

I completely agree. Having any rule one way or the other makes problems, from what you describe to the kind of people gravitylover ran into. I know exactly why I stop for descenders but I don't know what they or anyone else are thinking so it's not like I expect people to behave the same way I do.

Like everyone keeps saying, just don't be an ass and use your head. Unfortunately that's not enough for most people so some sort of rule has to exist. It just happens to be kind of a silly one that people take as gospel and get all self righteous about (which I guess would happen with whatever was implemented). People are way more into being right than being smart.

[joetron]

start fun police / You guys are wasting energy even thinking about this. No way a mutli-user trail would ever give the right of way to the dh rider (nor should they). That would effectively mean dh riders would have the right to just blow uphill riders/walkers up if they got in the way. /end fun police

This.

I think if you are descending a multiuse trail you should be in enough control to stop for anything in your line of sight at anytime. Rider, hiker, kid, dog, moose, cow, etc.

When I'm descending and I see a climber I just stop, put a foot down and wait for the other rider to come by. Then it takes the miracle of gravity and a pedal stroke to get back up to fun speed. No brake feathering, no trying figure out who is gonna do what while covering valuable trail at a crawl, definitely never assuming that I'm gonna get the green light, just following the fucking rule. If I get waved by, great, many thanks. If your DH flow is so important, go ride a resort or a directional trail and have at it.

When I'm climbing, I'm generally gonna hold my line. That shit is hard, I can't hear much over my breathing, getting started again on anything over 5% grade pretty much sucks.

[beaterdit]

I agree with this, and it's also how I conduct myself.

[bendtheski]

Yep.


23456

[kidwoo]

That shit is hard,

Totally.

You should get a dh bike one day. It's great fun.

[wannabe]

I think a new rule should be instituted, whoever is going down to a cold beer should have the right of way.

If you don't have cold beer sorry you wait.

[joetron]

I think a new rule should be instituted, whoever is going down to a cold beer should have the right of way.

If you don't have cold beer sorry you wait.

Generally, if I'm starting a ride after 12:00pm, there is a beer waiting in the car for me. So I'm good there, but I'll still stop for climbers.

[skinipenem]

The Gospel from IMBA the all knowing and final say on all things non-motorized that defecate in the woods:

YIELD APPROPRIATELY: Do your utmost to let your fellow trail users know you’re coming - a friendly greeting is a good method. Anticipate other trail users as you ride around corners. Bicyclists should yield to other non-motorized trail users, unless the trail is clearly signed for bike-only travel. Bicyclists traveling downhill should yield to ones headed uphill, unless the trail is clearly signed for one-way or downhill-only traffic. In general, strive to make each pass a safe and courteous one.

AVOID SPREADING SEEDS: Help keep weeds out of our forests. Noxious weeds threaten our healthy ecosystems and livelihoods. Stay on trail, drive on designated roads, use weed seed free hay, check your socks, bikes and horse tails for hitchhikers when you get back to the trailhead. Let’s keep our forests strong and clean. So don't eat seeds before you go riding in the woods.

The definition of yield from Merriam-Webster the all knowing and final say on all things that necessitate defining:
to give way to or become succeeded by someone or something else.

frankly, I'm with woo. I generally stop/slow and let the descending rider pass; otherwise, they have to wait longer for me to climb up and pass them than I would wait if they just continued downhill. Watching people wait for me is a drag and getting started climbing up anything, but super steep stuff just ain't that difficult. Climbing in general is hard and should be held in great disdain just like skiing in Salomon Quests, killing kittens, and not drinking beer.