Intuition Liner Help

[Darkside]

So I was convinced that I had a killer setup, new (to me) boot shells, custom cork Superfeet, and Intuition liners. Turns out, the only thing I've really gotten are some sore feet.
Does anyone have firsthand experience with Intuition liners? I wear a 27.5 shell, got some Nordica Wave 9.1's, they're a bit tight on me width-wise, but not too bad. I got a set of size 9 Intuition liners, heated them for 15mins. in a Scarpa heater (same as 32/Intuition as far as I know), smacked my footbed in there w/toecaps on, and damn, I needed to kill a whole bowl to stand them being on my feet for 10mins. The liner seems so thick, it makes the boots way too tight, even though I have 2 fingers of room when a shell fit is done. We heated them another 15mins to see if they'd pack out more, and no dice, plus they're so narrow that they started warping the heel of my footbed. Any help? Please?

[Big E]

I'm hardly an expert, but I've had my Intuition liners for 3 seasons now and love 'em. Super warm, sometimes too warm.

After you heated them and stuck your foot in 'em, did you just stand there, or did you flex forward a lot? It's been a while since I had mine fit, but I definitely spent a good 5-10 minutes just rocking forward in the boots after the liners came out of the oven. Thought there was actually 2 parts to it - one was rocking forward, can't remember the other.

[Darkside]

Well, I stood on an inclined board to push my heel back and was wearing the toecaps in the meantime, so I think this should have given me ample room.

[Will]

I've cooked Scarpas, but not Intuitions. Will be doing a pair of Intuitions later this week and can report back then.

But for the time being.... What sort of sock did you wear? If the boots are somply too tight on yer feet (and you're sure that they won't feel better once they're broken in), and you cooked them with a really thin sock on, you could try re-cooking with a thicker sock. That'll give you a bit more volume.

[mntlion]

step 1, get boots the right size (done)

step 2, get shell to fit foot (not done, you need more width)

step 3, cook liners (done, but you might want to keep all the buckles on WAY to tight. no really one notch tighter then that. upper ones hold the foot back all the way, lower ones compress the liner more and make more room later Also 2* tow caps and thicker socks when cookig and thin socks to ski them

[Darkside]

step 1, get boots the right size (done)

step 2, get shell to fit foot (not done, you need more width)

step 3, cook liners (done, but you might want to keep all the buckles on WAY to tight. no really one notch tighter then that. upper ones hold the foot back all the way, lower ones compress the liner more and make more room later Also 2* tow caps and thicker socks when cookig and thin socks to ski them

Well, the boots definetly fit me in the width just fine, they're just a bit tighter than the played out XWave 8's I'm used too, I mean I can wear the boot with the stock liner just fine. I cranked the snot out of the boots when I put the hot liner in, to the point that my feet were turning colors when I took them out. I guess I'll have to try two toecaps and thicker socks...

[peterslovo]

I've got intuition power wraps (their 'high performance' alpine liner) in my scarpa denalis. Intuition recommends wearing the thinnest socks you can - not thick as the liner will be too roomy (they are hot and your feet will be warm - i wear very thin socks). I actually just cut out a thicker hiking sock (at the toes) and put it on underneath my liner socks to create toe space. Worked great.

[dude_le_skibum]

this is just a possibility, boofitting over the internet is something i hate to do.
there's a possility that the intuition linner because of its round shape at the bottom is tweaking the superfeet and making it narrower making it squeeze your foot. possibility here i might be talking through my ass...this is internet bootfitting... you should

a)go back to the person that sold you the set-up and inquire more.
b) freestyle.


if you chose b) you need to know that i am not responsible for shit and you shouldn't take tips from an internet forum..

so by freestyling i mean do your own bootfitting, using a sander and the abilities you have aquired watching biker build-off, you can sand the sides of the the footbed so that it fits in the concavity of the round linner. the trick is really to round them up so they dont crush your foot sideways.

you shouldn't listen to me i could be a bum writting stoopidities from the back of a truck....

[peterslovo]

darkside -

i forgot to mention in my last post, intuition recommends NOT putting your footbeds inside the liner - in fact, they don't recommend using them at all with their liners. however, if you are so inclined, they recommend molding the liner with the footbed recut and fit to the inside of the shell of the boot itself, not inside the liner. So you'd have the footbed inside the shell of the boot.

FYI, I always used a footbed inside my liners (and loved them), but since I put the intuition liners in, have not used them and have had no problems.

[ScottG]

darkside -

i forgot to mention in my last post, intuition recommends NOT putting your footbeds inside the liner - in fact, they don't recommend using them at all with their liners. however, if you are so inclined, they recommend molding the liner with the footbed recut and fit to the inside of the shell of the boot itself, not inside the liner. So you'd have the footbed inside the shell of the boot.

FYI, I always used a footbed inside my liners (and loved them), but since I put the intuition liners in, have not used them and have had no problems.

Whaaa?
The liner is so moldable (and so firm after molding) that it becomes its own footbed??

Wow. I would think pressure underfoot would pack-out and flatten the liner.

[peterslovo]

Whaaa?
The liner is so moldable (and so firm after molding) that it becomes its own footbed??

Wow. I would think pressure underfoot would pack-out and flatten the liner.

Yeah, hard to believe. Here's the word-for-word instructions that Intuiton sent me with my alpine power-wrap liners.

Intuition Custom Moulding Instructions

1. Un-moulded liners:

a) You will need a convection oven, some form of toe caps, a few trouser stockings, and a helping hand. If there are no shops in your area to help you, telemarktips.com is a good source of consumer generated information for home fittings. We do not recommend it, but it is possible.
b) To prepare your feet you will start with a regular sock. Place a toe cap over your toes. This will allow room for your toes after the moulding process. Place a nylon or stocking over the toecap and sock to keep them in place.
c) We do not recommend using foot beds or orthotics, unless you have a major problem. The liner itself provides sufficient support. If you are planning to use a foot bed or orthotic, place it into the shell, using double sided tape to hold it in place during the fitting.
d) Pre-heat the oven to 250 degrees F.
e) Put the liners in one at a time as it will take a few minutes to get each one on the foot and into the boot.
f) Heat the liner for about 12 minutes. It should be warm, soft, and a bit jelly like.
g) The person being fit should sitting down with the shell and another stocking ready to go.
h) The “fitter” with come with the warm liner, place it onto the persons foot, making sure that the heel and toe are lined up properly. Then he will wrap the inside flap to outside and the outside flap to the inside. Try to make them even. The person being fit can hold the wrap while the fitter pulls a stocking over the entire liner. This helps to hold it in place while entering the shell.
i) The person being fit should then stand up, (using the fitter for balance) point there toes and slip into the shell. Make sure the liner is not caught up on anything, and that the heel is wrinkle free. You can lift the heel slightly while in the shell to pull up the back of the liner. This will assure there are no wrinkles in the heel, as well as making sure the liner is high enough.
j) Check that the wrap is even in the front and proceed to do the boot up as usual. As the liner cools, you should be able to do the boot up another notch or two.
k) In about 10 minutes you can take everything off and place the moulded liner into the shell. Hopefully you will have a wrinkle free heel, sufficient toe space, and all around support.
l) If you have any further questions about fitting, do not hesitate to call Crystal or Rob at 604-879-9231.

Hope this helps!

[Darkside]

I think I've figured out the problem. The oven I cooked the liners in probably wasn't hot enough...They never really got jelly-like.

Dude-le, I work at a shop, so I know my way around a belt sander for the footbed grinding, but it was just too narrow in the heel, and I took off as much material as I could without destroying the integrity of the footbed.

I'm going to give it a try again in a hotter oven with someone who knows a little more about what they're doing.

[Atrain505]

I've got powerwrap intuition liners as well. Had them done in their factory. To reiterate they recommend not using a footbed.
Next I was not happy with them as well the first few days, foot cramping. Then my foot seemed to adjust or the liners adjusted just enough, now they are my new best friend. If their are pressure points they recommended taking off small slivers of the outside of the liner with an exacto knife. Key word being extremely small and thin. No matter how thin the liner gets it will not effect heat loss.

[dude_le_skibum]

hey, you never know who you are dealing with over the internet. i am happy that you are in the brotherhood of the beltsander...anyhow..

have you ridden the boot before putting the linner.if so please check how the flex is affected from the linner change. i have noticed a slight difference comming from a g-fit to a regular linner.. ...

[warthog]

I'm sure you thought of this, but...

Remember that your foot is under extreme heat. They expand like a mofo in the hot boot. Once it is formed, put them outside for a while, then try them. Also,rock front to back for a while, then side to side.

Recently had custom footbeds made in Jackson, and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Darkside]

hey, you never know who you are dealing with over the internet. i am happy that you are in the brotherhood of the beltsander...anyhow..

have you ridden the boot before putting the linner.if so please check how the flex is affected from the linner change. i have noticed a slight difference comming from a g-fit to a regular linner.. ...

I did ride the boots with the stock liner, I'll give a perfomance review once I get the Intutions sorted out.

Beltsanders for life.

[Jim S]

BUMP

Yesterday I got Intuition liners with my old custom footbeds put in my 04/05 Nordica Beast boots which had 90 days on the original liners. I had the liners with toe caps and thin ski socks during fitting. Got 'em at Snowind Sports w/ Bud in Reno. I chose these over Zipfit...I'm too tired to recall why.
Today I skied Squaw.

INITIAL COMMENTS:

1. I noticed my skis responded much quicker and precisely with these liners.
(I was skiing my Legend Pros.)

2. Liners are hard; I feel like I'm skiing in a cast. They are not soft and sweet. I would not say they are very comfortable. Not painful but just not friendly to feel. I am told they break in just a little bit. This may be the trade off for the performance benefit in 1 above.

3. I have a bit of room in front of my shin and have to crank the top buckle but I have not added the external front shims from the old Nordica liner. I will try that next.

[Sphinx]

Bump for an ancient thread.

Where do people get the Powerwrap liners (straight from Intuition?), and how much did you pay? Does anybody know the thickness of the foam, or can you compare the thickness to say Garmont or Scarpa liners?

Also, are they more durable than other thermo liners? I put holes in the fabric of Garmont thermos in 20 ski days or less; and the liners don't last more than a season or so, which is bullshit. If the Powerwraps don't last longer I'll go for other, on-sale liners.

Thanks all.

Edit: why the fuck am I thinking about skiing? I live in SoCal. It's summer. Somebody slap me.

[kidwoo]

Bump for an ancient thread.

Where do people get the Powerwrap liners (straight from Intuition?), and how much did you pay? Does anybody know the thickness of the foam, or can you compare the thickness to say Garmont or Scarpa liners?

Also, are they more durable than other thermo liners? I put holes in the fabric of Garmont thermos in 20 ski days or less; and the liners don't last more than a season or so, which is bullshit. If the Powerwraps don't last longer I'll go for other, on-sale liners.

Thanks all.

I'm not sure the thickness of an intuition is all that relevant since it expands and then gets compressed so much. But they're very different from the garmont ones. Much stiffer once cooled.

I paid $180 for mine and stuck them in both some lowas and then some adrenalines. The bootfitter I got them from (Cosmo in tahoe city) sold them to me and cooked them for the lowas. They sucked worse than the stock liner. These are BC boots so I imagine my foot expands a little more than what you'd see in an alpine boot at a ski area but I had to recook them and I bought some adrenalines while I was at it. I cooked those liners but they sucked so I won't go into detail.

I cooked intuitions again in a dessicant oven I have at work, cut up some THICK socks, made a double toe cap and taped a bunch of pieces to the outside of my feet and covered it all with a complete sock. Pressed them in with a foot bed and cranked the living shit out of my boots.

They fit a bizillion times better than what cosmo did. I have really wide feet which should be an incompatibility with garmonts but they work great. So they're obviously compressible.

My only complaint with them is that they're a little too hot (ie sweaty feet) for hiking but the difference in performance over the garmont liner is huge.

Hope that helps.

[ccwaskier]

How long have you had them? I found my feet hurt the first few times I skied in them, but now they are very comfortable.

Also, if sounds like you did the fitting yourself, not to say you can't do it yourself, but I have found a good boot fitter to be well worth the money.

[Sphinx]

How long have you had them? I found my feet hurt the first few times I skied in them, but now they are very comfortable.

Also, if sounds like you did the fitting yourself, not to say you can't do it yourself, but I have found a good boot fitter to be well worth the money.

I disagree; IMHO one can do everything a boot fitter can, short of massive shell modification and custom footbed fabrication. Fitting/baking/shimming liners I can do myself.

Anybody else have power wrap feedback?

[kidwoo]

I disagree; IMHO one can do everything a boot fitter can, short of massive shell modification and custom footbed fabrication. Fitting/baking/shimming liners I can do myself.

Anybody else have power wrap feedback?

I should have said.....

Mine are the power wrap ones. They're the only ones I've used so I have no comparison.

[Shin-to-Win]

I heart my intuitions. Martin at Sturtevants worked on my stock Head boots for a year and half without success. After six or seven sessions of tweaking, I still had major pain every run. The last straw was being in massive pain while helping my kids mess around on the magic carpet while the boots were completely unbuckled. Finally bit the bullet and got the intuitions, ehile retaining the footbeds. Problem solved.

On a side note, I have also learned that foot pain dissipates rapidly right after a safety meeting in the trees. YMMV.

[upallnight]

I disagree; IMHO one can do everything a boot fitter can, short of massive shell modification and custom footbed fabrication. Fitting/baking/shimming liners I can do myself.

Anybody else have power wrap feedback?

intuition power wraps are the best thermo liners out there.

my experience shows that they last:
* 120 days from the first cooking;
* 100 days on the second bake;
* 80 days on the 3rd bake...and then they're done.

that's quite a bit longer than any other thermo liner. it's not unusual for me to have them last into a 3rd season.

i think the MSRP/non-hookup-price is $189 or $209 or something like that.

i hear what you're saying about theoretically being able to do everything a bootfitter can at home, but in my experience it just doesn't work out that way. the best shops i've been to actually have two people assist with the thermo fitting. there's a bunch of prep work to getting set up for it and keeping your boot open so that (a) the heated liner can slip in easily and (b) your foot can get in there immediately without creating any creases.

Little details, liketaping spacers to key areas of your feet and slipping a stocking on over your footbed + foot + spacers are easy to forget at home and sometimes not that easy to do if you're flying solo.

a good shop will probably rebake your liners for the life of the liner, too.

garmont liners are not constructed nearly as well, by comparison. so far, leelau is the only one i've heard whose liners are lasting, but i think he mentioned he has less than 50 days on 'em so far.

if i had to, i'd pay retail for intuition power wraps. i think they're worth it.

good luck in your decision.

[Sphinx]

300 days on the same liners? Insane.

Upallnight: What boots do you use the Powerwraps in? Can you compare the powerwrapped performance to the stock liner performance? And lastly, would you say that the powerwraps generally take up more volume than stock AT thermo liners?

I'm thinking about how to beef up some Lasers that should be arriving soon (thanks Plinko!). Tongue swap, possibly cuff swap from my Denali XT, booster straps, and I need new liners. I know that the Denali/Matrix/Laser series has a lot of volume in the forefoot for me, so I want to take up that space. In my Denalis, I actually did some massive shimming on the forebody of my garmont liners; I'm hoping to avoid that with beefier liners. Hence all my questions.

Gracias!