Fluoro vs Non Fluoro Wax

[PhishingME]

Anyone notice a difference? I typically ran hydro, but those seem to be banned too. I did pick up some non fluoro F4 which is marketed as a fast mid range temp universal, and works well but not durable. My local shop said the race kids grabbed all the old wax, but if anyone is holding blue or purple we can make a deal.

[Cocximus]

Maybe trump can sign an executice order to end this bullshit ban. He brought real straws back. Make wax great again.

[gregL]

Not selling, but fluoro is definitely faster, especially on high-water content snow.

[AlpiNord]

And 30% and higher humidity.

[gregL]

<p>
Welcome to skiing in the Pacific Northwest.</p>

[schindlerpiste]

<p>

Anyone notice a difference? I typically ran hydro, but those seem to be banned too. I did pick up some non fluoro F4 which is marketed as a fast mid range temp universal, and works well but not durable. My local shop said the race kids grabbed all the old wax, but if anyone is holding blue or purple we can make a deal.

</p>
<p>
LF is fast, but it is no longer allowed at many places. I recently purchased Holmonkol FF21 wax, which is just as fast, but it costs ~$75 for 150g</p>

[ZomblibulaX]

A lot of the new formulations are running damn near as fast as the old fluoro stuff, but it&#39;s tougher to nail it and you need good prep like Terry said. Toko&#39;s jet liquid is pretty easy to use and I would say is right up there with the old jet stream stuff. I&#39;ve found that swix&#39;s topcoats don&#39;t play as well with others as the old cera f, you kind of have to use their base products to get the best performance out of it. But all my testing is limited to SW CO, and it&#39;s pretty damn easy to make a ski fast down here.

I&#39;ve always told race parents wondering what wax to buy that 2-3 hrs practicing starts will make their kid faster than fluoro, and it lasts longer than half a run.

[dcpnz]

Wax companies are saying their new non fluoro’s are just as fast and they are definitely good but I’m skeptical that they’re as good as HF especially in warm or high moisture content conditions.
If you can get some by all means use it on your free skis with a clear conscience but if any racer kids are using it now they are absolutely cheating …

[ZomblibulaX]

I wouldn&#39;t say they&#39;re cheating until they&#39;re getting tested. NorAms has one test unit now, they&#39;re close to $30k. It takes about 30 seconds to get a reading at each of three points on the base of the ski, so it&#39;s still very expensive and fairly time-consuming to test for fluoro. So it&#39;s not likely to trickle down to junior or masters racing any time soon. Though I guess doping is still doping whether you&#39;re getting tested or not.

[AlpiNord]

Correct base structure goes a long way in reducing the suction in wet snows. Then there is durability in abrasive snows. If you head out in the AM with yellow expecting it to last until the snow softens, it won&#39;t. Erring toward colder and more durable wax will last longer and the LF will still help. With a thirty degree temperature swing each day, and varying sun intensities depending on aspect here in SW CO can get interesting at times. I usually wax for the coldest temp the night before and let it ride. It&#39;s about the likely snow temperature, not air temperature. Different aspects and elevations can have different snow, too. FWIW, it was seventy five percentage humidity this am and now at fifty percent. As ZomblibulaX says about parents and young racers, one or two skidded turns versus good carving negates the benefit of higher end waxes....especially for lightweight kids. When my lightweight son was in middle school, for a school project, he was the test pilot down a slope with multiple runs and different temp waxes, there was no real discernible average time difference from blue thru yellow for a 100 yard slope.

[ZomblibulaX]

Terry sez: When my lightweight son was in middle school, for a school project, he was the test pilot down a slope with multiple runs and different temp waxes, there was no real discernible average time difference from blue thru yellow for a 100 yard slope.


Totally. Kids hardly weigh enough to change the snow as they travel over it, they&#39;re usually dealing with far less moisture under the ski compared to an adult. You can make a ski damn fast with conventional waxes and spend your energy on getting little buddy to the first gate faster.

[dcpnz]

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I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree
If something is banned by FIS and USSA ( and every other national federation) at all levels and people are using it in competition then IMO they’re cheating, irrespective of if there’s testing and/or if they’re caught.

Back to topic at hand - get some, put it on your pow skis and have a great time.

[XXX-er]

I got some high fluro for a citizen DH race Toko yellow tri-bloc zero to -6 snow temp recommended by another racer the skis were womens GS FIS atomic double deck in perfect condition, wearing a skin suit to tuck a beginner run its been the same speed race for over 30 yrs so somewhat of an accurate test compro





I went 1 km faster than the year before I hitting 90 to win the old fucker class so it was worth the 70 $ for minor bragging rights but almost impossible to feel without a speedgun borrowed form the po-lice whereas I can really feel the dif between a ski that has not been waxed or prepped and a ski I did wax n prep with a normal wax




I think the correct wax on a properly prepared ski is good enough for the ever day

[Westcoaster]

https://www.slc.gov/parks/pfas-ski-wax/

Lame

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

"New" F4 Universal is just as fast as the old fluoro in my opinion. That said we are skiing on very low water content and very low ambient humidity most of the season. When it's -20 or late April slush it doesn't really matter all wax sucks then.

[Name Redacted]

If you have kids and card about the human race, then pick one an be a dick about it. Otherwise, the red one is faster.

[sean@alphalavin.com]

If you have kids and card about the human race, then pick one an be a dick about it. Otherwise, the red one is faster.

They Are not nearly as good in warm wet weather/snow. You will know when they are - FIS will stop testing. Duh

[arild]

Holy crap. Got some toko and swix powder from my local dealer. Goddamn, that stuff is fast. Have used some LF in the past, this is on another level.

Sent fra min Pixel 8 Pro via Tapatalk

[bodywhomper]

Not a racer. subjectively, I get a lot more differing results messing and refreshing my base structure with the tools that terry sells than with different wax type, except when it’s very warm “snow.” I’m not sure I’ve ever skied where the snow temp is minus twenty. I’ve skied with the windchill was that cold or colder….


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[XXX-er]

A number of years ago I hung out as the topside go-for at the Canadian ski-X champs with the wax guy so they had prepped the ski night before but etween races they were crayoning a little piece of flouro/ corking / roto brush heavily

[singlesline]

I'm just not looking to go faster. For the kind of casual off piste skiing most of us here probably do, what's the benefit of going incrementally faster due to wax? You get down to the lift line 5 seconds faster?

Flouro can work magic when it is fresh, and even saving a single second on a race course is huge...but saving even 5-10 seconds off a random 1000' off piste run is meaningless. Hell, I'd almost rather have slower skis so I can enjoy it longer and not have to scrub as much speed (as long as they still feel smooth, not sticky).

I mostly wax for the cat track/traverse back. Save some poling/skating. That's where it matters to me, and for the most part that only matters in very cold or very warm conditions. So my wax quiver is small. Universal wax most of the time. Warm wax for spring conditions. Some black graphite to mix in for very cold snow or for really dirty old spring slush (like Mt Hood in the summer). Prefer a decent amount of texture/structure in the base because that helps avoid sticking in warm/wet/old snow...which is where it matters most to me. Typical midwinter snow does fine with universal wax and whatever kind of structure you have.

Pair of skate skis though? If it weren't for the environmental aspect (and time/effort) gimme that temp-specific flouro! Even for casual non-race use, that shit's magic.

[gregL]

<p>
Wonder what the quantity of PFAS contaminants from putting out one airport fire might be (AFFF still is widely used) vs what a pair of skis leaves on the snow . . .</p>

[Marshal Olson]

Big fan of the RaceService1 (svst house brand) CR waxes ... 1 for when its warm and 2 for when its cold (for utah at least). Really impressed with the Wend stuff too.

IMO, good wax in sticky/wet snow or cold grabby snow is absolutely worth an extra couple of bucks in wax a few times per ski per year. The ski rides like normal and makes what other skiers might struggle with, just a good old fashion ski day...

Especially when the rain line is near the parking lot, the snow isnt refreezing over night, or getting an extra lap in on a powder day b/c you arent poling over flats.