reverse sidecut, normal camber...

**addict** · 08-15-2007, 10:29 PM

What skis are out there that have the spatula/arg/praxxis/etc. etc. type sidecut, but have either normal or flat camber. This is a ski I'd LOVE to try. I think of myself as a bit of a Seth Morrison when it comes to cliffs (ie. I land in the backseat once in a while

) and have no need for reverse camber, is there anything out there? Anyone interested in similar?

**skea 457** · 08-16-2007, 01:31 AM

That is just retarded.

**addict** · 08-16-2007, 02:28 AM

Thanks for your well thought out insights genius. Why would that be retarded? Why does reverse sidecut have to be in conjunction with reverse camber?

The idea of most float being in the centre of the ski shouldn't have to work hand in hand with a negative camber, if the reverse sidecut has merit as a design then it should have merit both in conjunction with reverse camber and by itself.

**splat** · 08-16-2007, 02:36 AM

you might pm gordy about this.
i heard he skied some dp protos like that a few years ago.
coulda been a rumor...

**mntlion** · 08-16-2007, 09:01 AM

salomon rocker is normal sidecut, and the tip rocker, tail normal camber (think a "S" in the camber.

I have not skied them, or seen them, or anything.

**cpj.slc** · 08-16-2007, 09:29 AM

I saw a photo of some Rossi protos that were like what you described. I think they were made for Hugo, in any case they supposedly weren't all that great. This is just my $.02 on why that could be. If you have the most buoyancy (for a lack of a better word) at the middle of the ski, and have camber in the ski, then the middle of the ski will ride higher than the tip, thus tip dive and you going over the tips. To get the most out of a reverse sidecut ski you want the waist to float, but you want the tip to float even more, i.e. rocker in the tip. Whoever suggested looking at the Solomon Rocker had the right idea, this sounds like the ski you need to not wheelie out of cliffs. Also, you may get better response if you don't compare your skiing to Seth Morrison's. That's like saying "I play basketball a lot like Michael Jordan."

**Dromond** · 08-16-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by skea 457

That is just retarded.

I'm going to go with this guy. My guess is that the camber would get the tip to hook up and reverse carve your ass into the ground instantly.

**pechelman** · 08-16-2007, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dromond

I'm going to go with this guy. My guess is that the camber would get the tip to hook up and reverse carve your ass into the ground instantly.

exactly. well put.
and yea, its retarded

furthermore
the WHOLE reason being reverse sidecut is to keep the tips\tails from hooking. adding the rocker also helps keeps the ends from extending or rebounding below things like breakable crust. Im fairly certain a flat or normal cambered reverse sidecut ski would be NIGHTMARE to ski in breakable crust. ugh. I dont even want to think about it.

I am however a bit curious as to adding rocker accross the base in certain areas of the ski, ie purposely convex in areas, but that might make it a bit too unstable on hardpack and a potential impossibility to tune properly. among other things.

**marshalolson** · 08-16-2007, 09:55 AM

everybody needs reverse camber.

**Bandit Man** · 08-16-2007, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by addict

What skis are out there that have the spatula/arg/praxxis/etc. etc. type sidecut, but have either normal or flat camber. This is a ski I'd LOVE to try. I think of myself as a bit of a Seth Morrison when it comes to cliffs (ie. I land in the backseat once in a while

) and have no need for reverse camber, is there anything out there? Anyone interested in similar?

Not trying to be a punk, but have you skied any reverse sidecut skis? If so, you'd really understand why reverse camber and reverse sidecut make a magical marriage in pow-pow.

Like Mntlion mentioned, the Sallie Rocker still has rocker in the tip, but normal sidecut, so it turns, but keeps the tips up.

I still don't get what reverse sidecut with normal camber would get you though. I sounds like a nightmare to ski for me too. Then again, if McConkey starts skiing a pair, I'll jump on that bandwagon for sure!!

**FREESKIER_FIVE-0** · 08-16-2007, 10:16 AM

These really cool tele dudes build a lot of skis so you can look through their gallery here.

Im not sure if they have exactly what your looking for but they have alot of different and unique ideas and designs.

**Bandit Man** · 08-16-2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by FREESKIER_FIVE-0

These really cool tele dudes build a lot of skis so you can look through their gallery here.

Im not sure if they have exactly what your looking for but they have alot of different and unique ideas and designs.

Looks like someone else is thinking in this dimension, so maybe you aren't crazy...

**cpj.slc** · 08-16-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bandit Man

Looks like someone else is thinking in this dimension, so maybe you aren't crazy...

The image says -5mm if camber, so there is a small amount of reverse camber.

**summit** · 08-16-2007, 10:38 AM

reverse sidecude... normal camber... on a spat/praxis... it's like taking a Spatula or a Praxis and making it suck even harder on hardpack than it already does while degrading its powder performance at the same time! BRILLIANT!

Originally Posted by Bandit Man

Not trying to be a punk, but have you skied any reverse sidecut skis? If so, you'd really understand why reverse camber and reverse sidecut make a magical marriage in pow-pow.

and why you can only have reverse sidecut if you have reverese camber... otherwise you'll forever be doing the spatula splits on anything resembling packed snow

**FREESKIER_FIVE-0** · 08-16-2007, 10:38 AM

^^^^Those Upper Krust's look sooo hawt. (Just speeking on appearence.)

**FREESKIER_FIVE-0** · 08-16-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by cpj.slc

The image says -5mm if camber, so there is a small amount of reverse camber.

Well yeah, but if you look at the other reverse camber skis it actually shows the reverse camber. If there using SnoCAD, than it would show up as they typed it in. I think its a dash symbol.

**spindrift** · 08-16-2007, 10:41 AM

Hmmmm - true reverse sidecut with normal camber. The perfect combination. Can't carve and can't pivot!

An interesting and related patent application for your reading pleasure... http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...key+AND+camber

**cpj.slc** · 08-16-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by FREESKIER_FIVE-0

Well yeah, but if you look at the other reverse camber skis it actually shows the reverse camber. If there using SnoCAD, than it would show up as they typed it in. I think its a dash symbol.

Yeah, I don't know anything about snowcad or autocad, so I will defer to you on if that is a dash or not, I was just looking at the tip and tail 50mm dimensions and thought the dash must be a negative sign.

**skea 457** · 08-16-2007, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dromond

I'm going to go with this guy. My guess is that the camber would get the tip to hook up and reverse carve your ass into the ground instantly.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

**Jer** · 08-16-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by addict

What skis are out there that have the spatula/arg/praxxis/etc. etc. type sidecut, but have either normal or flat camber. This is a ski I'd LOVE to try.

Hate to pile on, but given my ultra limited background in ski design engineering, I'd have to say that kind of ski would really suck. That'd be like a reverse camber SL racing ski.

**addict** · 08-16-2007, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by cpj.slc

Also, you may get better response if you don't compare your skiing to Seth Morrison's. That's like saying "I play basketball a lot like Michael Jordan."

A little while ago they invented this thing called sarcasm. I used the winky to make it ultra obvious but it seems to have slipped by you there. Like I said, it's just an idea, I'm sure a lot of people thought the whole reverse sidecut/camber thing was crazy to begin with.

And I'm nto talking a whole dickload of camber, just 1mm to neutral. As for hardpack performance, I don't really ski hardpack, and obviously it'd be a quiverski.

Mntlion, yeah the rocker is an interesting idea, unfortunately I'm allergic to Salomon

**summit** · 08-17-2007, 12:05 AM

Since you are slow on the uptake... let me make it clear:

Camber is not a positive thing for powder

Camber is not a positive thing for reverse sidecut

Camber is only a positive for skiing packed snow traditional sidecut or none at all

**addict** · 08-17-2007, 01:50 AM

Gee thanks Summit, but I think it was cleared up 12 posts previous. All I was doing was musing and seeing if such a thing was out there, sometimes it's fun to experiment with different shapes. And it looks like there are some out there, that's all I wanted to know.

**MnO** · 08-17-2007, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by addict

Mntlion, yeah the rocker is an interesting idea, unfortunately I'm allergic to Salomon

Birdos (www.birdos.com) makes skis with the same type of camber as the Salomon Rocker. Normal camber plus tip rocker. They also have skis with full negative camber, but the tip rocker idea makes it possible to put some of the positive properties of a negative cambered skis into 100-110mm everyday skis.