Running, Anyone...?

[Coño Frío]

Try out a pair of Hoka One One's. They changed my life. I ran the Big Cottonwood Canyon 26.2 last September in a pair of the Bondi's and they absolutely slayed. The rockered (it's not just for pow) sole and maximalist cushion allows you to attack the downhill.

[hutash]

Yeah, Hoka's are great for old knees, young ones too, no doubt. I have an outlet near by, so picked up several pair for $24.95

[klar]

What do you hardcore running people think about running on the balls of your feet, rather than the whole foot?

I have been told I should do this to not upset my knees but it feels stupid and unnatural except when going up steep-ish hills where I do it anyway. It also doesn't really feel like it's less straining for the knees, not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

My running loops are almost always straight up hill and then back down on some other trail. Due to back and knee issues I currently walk down or do a dumb kind of half running shuffle, would love to figure out a way to run anything that is not uphill in a non-jarring manner. (I probably just should not run at the moment but that isn't working out too well)

[neufox47]

What do you hardcore running people think about running on the balls of your feet, rather than the whole foot?

I have been told I should do this to not upset my knees but it feels stupid and unnatural except when going up steep-ish hills where I do it anyway. It also doesn't really feel like it's less straining for the knees, not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

My running loops are almost always straight up hill and then back down on some other trail. Due to back and knee issues I currently walk down or do a dumb kind of half running shuffle, would love to figure out a way to run anything that is not uphill in a non-jarring manner. (I probably just should not run at the moment but that isn't working out too well)

Most running coaches encourage a mid foot strike, not heel to toe but not only the ball of the foot. This allows your calf to absorb some of the shock. It was described to me as touching with the ball of the foot first but allowing the heel to come down almost immediately after. I find that I run much quieter with this technique without the super sore calves of a ball of foot strike.

[GeezerSteve]

+1 to midfoot in concept, although it's often not actually a midfoot strike. For some the impact will start forward of midfoot, for some behind midfoot. If you are a heel slapper you need to rotate your COG forward and think of running as a controlled fall. Check out POSE Running and Chi Running.

[Sirshredalot]

+1 to midfoot in concept, although it's often not actually a midfoot strike. For some the impact will start forward of midfoot, for some behind midfoot. If you are a heel slapper you need to rotate your COG forward and think of running as a controlled fall. Check out POSE Running and Chi Running.

Yes. There was a lot of hype around using a forefoot strike among the barefoot running set a few years ago. Many casual or new runners (or people who hadn't grown up with coaching) bought in because it corrects a tendency they had to heel strike.

If you're a heavy heel striker, you probably just need to bring your hips forward a little bit and you're golden. If you're not a heavy heel striker, you can probably safely tune out the ball of foot strike advocates.

[GeezerSteve]

If you're a heavy heel striker, you probably just need to bring your hips forward a little bit and you're golden. If you're not a heavy heel striker, you can probably safely tune out the ball of foot strike advocates.

Good advice.

[Dantheman]

That sums it up beautifully. I like the arm emphasis too, most people don't even consider their arms and hands. My high school track coach used to say "Don't crush grapes, don't kill the bird." By which she meant that 1) your elbows should be at 90*, where you could hold a grape in the crook of your arm without squashing it, and 2) your hands should be relaxed enough that you could hold a baby bird.

klar - The only time you should be fully on the balls of your feet is an all-out sprint. A few hundred meters max. In a proper forefoot strike the ball of your foot does strike first, but then your heel comes down and briefly "kisses" the ground before pushing off into the next step. This will be difficult if you have shoes with a thick heel since they limit your ankle ROM too much. Also, this is really only applicable to flat-ish terrain.

[::: :::]

my limited understanding is it's a spectrum based on speed
walking is most upright with the heel strike
jogging gets you more towards the middle
sprinting puts you on the balls of your feet

to adjust my heel strike, someone told me to think about leaning forward and imagining falling forward or running downhill (on a flat surface) but compensating with increased cadence or turnover of your steps to keep from truly falling forward.

[bagtagley]

My high school track coach used to say "Don't crush grapes, don't kill the bird."

Mine used to run alongside the track during races screaming "STRIDE, BAGS! FUCKING STRIDE, GODDAMMIT!!". My hip extension and knee flexion still sucks, though. I've always run with loose hands, though. My left just kind flops and looks a little limp wristed. I'm not the prettiest runner.

Not a lot of running this year. I started out training for a 50K, but stopped when the same old aches and pains returned. Been spending this year working on strength and being healthy. 3-4 miles 3-4 times a week, really slow. It's made me like running again.

[Dantheman]

I've always run with loose hands, though. My left just kind flops and looks a little limp wristed. I'm not the prettiest runner.

Nothing wrong with looking a bit thilly

Not a lot of running this year.

Same here. Every time I think about it I end up walking by my bike and get lured away by thoughts of speed and airtime.

[Sirshredalot]

Mine used to run alongside the track during races screaming "STRIDE, BAGS! FUCKING STRIDE, GODDAMMIT!!". My hip extension and knee flexion still sucks, though. I've always run with loose hands, though. My left just kind flops and looks a little limp wristed. I'm not the prettiest runner.

Not a lot of running this year. I started out training for a 50K, but stopped when the same old aches and pains returned. Been spending this year working on strength and being healthy. 3-4 miles 3-4 times a week, really slow. It's made me like running again.

My coach used to yell at me, in a thick brogue, "Holy flipping Jesus, you're waddling like my grandma. Get up there on McCarthy! He's put 30 seconds on you! That's it! You're off the varsity!" XC season was a little silly for me. I think coach only tolerated me on the team because it beat me into shape for the 400 by winter.

[sfotex]

I think the heel strike got the bad rap because it can be a sign that your over striding, especially on downhills. If your cadence is up there and things are working out let your body do what it wants to do.

[GeezerSteve]

The heel strike got a bad rap because it's unnatural and largely the product of "corrective" shoes.

[Dantheman]

I got a check in the mail today for $10.11 from the FiveFingers class action suit. Hellooo beer money!

[sfotex]

The heel strike got a bad rap because it's unnatural and largely the product of "corrective" shoes.

'unnatural'? I see people doing it all the time, some are even *gasp* elite runners.

[Viva]

Oh, and did anyone else nerd out on WS last night? I followed it online and then was able to help out at the Foresthill aid station. Slept at the finish line.

Sup' Foo? You gonna be back next week?

[GeezerSteve]

'unnatural'? I see people doing it all the time, some are even *gasp* elite runners.

I too see many heel slapper runners and every one of them is wearing motion control shoes.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Hated running before I cured the heel slap. Shin splints galore. I basically followed the above advice and now I love it. 3 miles used to be pure suffering. Now it's a warmup.

[bodywhomper]

^^same. Wish I could carve out more time in life these days beyond a warm up....

[bean]

I think I've got a case of running knee that didn't show up until a couple weeks after my marathon. Grindy/crunchy noise when squatting down, and now just a hint of pain.

Any protips for dealing with this before I'm seriously sidelined? I'm not particularly interested in heavy motion control shoes or similar BS.

[bagtagley]

Maybe PFS? You foam rolling? Be worth seeing a PT.

[mtngirl79]

I was having massive issues with my feet/legs and went to a physical therapist and with just a shoe change and a couple weeks of exercises and stretches its at least 50% better.

[Cruiser]

I think I've got a case of running knee that didn't show up until a couple weeks after my marathon. Grindy/crunchy noise when squatting down, and now just a hint of pain.

Last time I got a grindy/crunchy noise when I was squatting down it was the result of some gas station Mexican food. But it passed pretty quickly as I recall.

[klar]

Thanks for the advice everyone, helpful. I've been running a fair amount for ever but never competed/trained with a purpose/had to think about it.

If you're a heavy heel striker, you probably just need to bring your hips forward a little bit and you're golden. If you're not a heavy heel striker, you can probably safely tune out the ball of foot strike advocates.

I don't think I'm doing something hugely wrong with my heels in normal jogging mode. Might be slamming my heels going fast downhill on anything that is not an uneven trail but that happens very rarely.

Also, this is really only applicable to flat-ish terrain.

mhm. I saw the previous discussion about how to run downhill and it seems like different things work for different people? In the video someone posted the guy says the stride should be longer on the down, shorter on the up. I think I mostly do it the other way round but guessing that has something to do with running on bumpy hiking trails rather than pavement.

The heel strike got a bad rap because it's unnatural and largely the product of "corrective" shoes.

So is a "normal" running shoe already too corrective? I have some kind of asics standard whatever model. Tried something super light without any padding before and it didn't really seem to make much difference other than the shoes falling apart much quicker.