Running, Anyone...?

[Dantheman]

Looks great!

Sunday evening was pretty excellent.

[Buke]

So, when's the next one?

Maybe October

[sb]

Three days to fkna cowbell.

[phatty]

It's been a weird summer so far with family and work keeping me off the trails more than I want. Was able to spend a long day in the Tatra Mountains in Poland after a work trip. With the crowds and difficult terrain, it was difficult to pick up the speed, but it was a great day out with some of the most spectacular views I've seen.

16.5mi, 6800 vertical

[sb]

Spectacular!

[Dantheman]

I guess I need to go to Poland.

[phatty]

I guess I need to go to Poland.

It had never been on my list and I was blown away. These mountains are about 90 minutes south of Krakow, which is definitely worth visiting.

Now I'm in your backyard in the Wasatch. I'm in Deer Valley staying at my brother's place and working for the week. I'm using Guardsman to access BCC trails. Did a traverse of half the ridge above Brighton on Monday evening and a quick sunset run up Guardsman Peak for sunset last night. The weather has been perfect with the thundershowers cooling things off. Unfortunately work has kept me to later evening runs, but the sunsets have been 🤌 Hoping to get a few bigger objectives at the end of the week.

[Dantheman]

Nice. Let me know if you'd like to meet up.

[stapes]

While I don't think she has much structure to her training, I do think she incorporated strength/stretching/core, etc. I'm mostly flabbergasted that she doesn't have structure in her training.

I think I'm just a few years behind you, Stapes and I've been able to avoid injury by 1) running easy 80% of the time and 2) being deliberate about 10-15mins of post run core/strength after *every* run. Most of my stuff comes from Jay Johnson. Here's one video that covers a bunch of good exercises, though I recommend elastic bands for increased resistance. Check out his youtube for more details.



The science behind static stretching is 50/50, so that actually was not a part of my training. I do recommend checking in with a PT and/or acupuncturist (though I know the science of acupuncture is also 50/50). If you're in the Front Range, PM me for an acupuncturist rec - she's amazing. Getting old is fun isn't it?

Thanks fool. I may reach out about the acupuncturist at some point. I just got a recommendation for a body work/massage dude in town today. Was talking with an acquaintance and runner who said he’s amazing.

I definitely run ‘easy’ / an unscientific zone 2 most of the time. Been getting back to running 3-4x/week. Mixing in gravel rides. Itching to get back on trails.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I'm also working my way back from an unhealthy year with too many with injuries and not enough running. Just starting to feel sort of ok. Weight is coming off (too slowly) and fitness is no longer terrible.

One challenge I need to adapt to is that early this year I went back to working regular hours after 7 years of having a flexible schedule. I used to have an office (and a place to shower) close to great trails and could mostly pop out to run when I wanted. Now I work 8-4 with a long commute. I also have 3 and 8 year olds. It's easy to run in a beautiful places when the weather is good. It takes a lot more motivation to run in the dark or on a treadmill. With summer winding down that will be my reality soon. Also, during those years of flexible schedule I did enough backcountry skiing that my fitness was solid even if I didn't run a lot of miles in the winter and early spring. That is also no longer possible.

But the motivation has come back. I want to keep it that way. I'm not ready to be a fat old fuck just yet. I'm going to sign up for some races to keep myself focused. I'm doing a trail half in 6 weeks. The fear of embarrassing myself is helping. I'm going to sign up for a couple 50K's next summer and a 50 miler fall 2024. I'll add some shorter races throughout the fall-winter-spring. I don't think I've ever run more than two races in a year but I need to try something new.

Anyone else have success with this approach? How do you poor 9-5 schlubs with kids (like me) keep it together?

One of the 50K's will probably be this one, which I had to bail on a couple years back because of an injury.

For the 50 mile race (I've never run over 50K before) I may fly somewhere. Any recommendations for great races? I don't like long flat races. I get bored and going up and down steep hills is all I'm (vaguely) good at.

[Dantheman]

If you like going up and down steep hills and want something easily accessed from a good airport, check out the Wasatch Speedgoat. It's 50k and not 50 miles, but fear not, with 11,500 ft of climbing at elevations of 8k to 11k it will feel like 50 miles

[stapes]

ISBD - which trail half are you doing? I did Black Squirrel last year. I've got a credit for a Gnar Runners event (from Quad Rock this spring) and was considering signing up last minute. That or save it for something bigger next year.

I have an 8 and 4 yo, and my wife and I work full-time. I have a somewhat flexible schedule, I can usually get out for runs during the day, but it is hard to get trail miles in during the work week (have to drive 15-20min to closest THs), so those miles are usually flatter from the house, on the bike path, crusher fine trails, etc. Occasionally I can sneak in a trail run early or later in the day. Every so often I can pull one off during the workday.

Last year when I was running a bunch and training, I just made myself get up super early and run before the family was even awake most days. Those were always just from the house. I'd like to get back to that. My day always seems to go better when I get that run in first thing. The weekends were for bigger trail runs.

In winter time I usually try to run around lunch when it has warmed up a bit. This depends on work obligations.

I haven't used a treadmill in probably 10 years.

There is something to be said for having something to train for, but it was nice not having that pressure this year, especially once the injuries popped up. Life is busy with the family and lots of other interests taking up time. I wanted to focus on skiing with my kid in winter/spring and not worrying about having to get in a certain number of miles and having training runs on weekends get in the way of getting him up to the mountain. Then in summer I want to fish all the time, etc.

Everything ebbs and flows and I can see wanting to really ramp things up again maybe next year or the following. As the kids get older it should hopefully get easier to make time for it as well. Not sure about that though...My goal right now is to focus on cross-training (biking/hiking) and trying to be disciplined about keeping up my PT exercises, maybe throw in some yoga, while slowly ramping up running mileage.

I too am not ready to be a fat old fuck. Let's run sometime!

[I've seen black diamonds!]

If you like going up and down steep hills and want something easily accessed from a good airport, check out the Wasatch Speedgoat. It's 50k and not 50 miles, but fear not, with 11,500 ft of climbing at elevations of 8k to 11k it will feel like 50 miles

That is my jam. It's on the list and might just work with my schedule. Do you know if it fills up quickly?

ISBD - which trail half are you doing?

Ned-ned because... it's easy to get to.

Let's run sometime!

Sounds goods. Maybe we can combine with some fishing?

[Dantheman]

That is my jam. It's on the list and might just work with my schedule. Do you know if it fills up quickly?

I think so.

On time-crunched training:

-I bike commute to work so that's about 5 hrs per week of "free" training.
-I'm lucky and have an incredible amount of trails within a 10-20 minute drive.
-Sometimes I use the dog as an excuse to get out.
-Two hard interval sessions per week can go a long, long ways.

[frosted flakes]

For the 50 mile race (I've never run over 50K before) I may fly somewhere. Any recommendations for great races? I don't like long flat races. I get bored and going up and down steep hills is all I'm (vaguely) good at.

I’m aiming to do one of the distances at Tushars Mountain Runs in southern Utah next year. Not exactly a 50m, but they have full/70k/100k. Supposed to be a great race with lots of climbing and I’ve never been to the Tushars, so that’s a bonus.

Last year I ran the Bogus 50/50 outside Boise as my first 50 miler. It’s not really a big destination race, but I liked the course a lot (mostly running in some cool foothills), it was pretty low-key, and it either doesn’t sell out or doesn’t sell out until late, so you could commit relatively last minute.

[sb]

[donutlynx]

I’m aiming to do one of the distances at Tushars Mountain Runs in southern Utah next year. Not exactly a 50m, but they have full/70k/100k. Supposed to be a great race with lots of climbing and I’ve never been to the Tushars, so that’s a bonus.

You won't regret it. Someday I want to do the 70 or 100. I've done the bike race in the Tushars a handful of times and that place is amazing.

[climberevan]

I just did my first decent run in like 3 years. It was super nice to get out there again, and my bad knee isn't even complaining!

12mi, 2500', O& B on the TRT to a great view.

[fool]

Thanks fool. I may reach out about the acupuncturist at some point. I just got a recommendation for a body work/massage dude in town today. Was talking with an acquaintance and runner who said he’s amazing.

I definitely run ‘easy’ / an unscientific zone 2 most of the time. Been getting back to running 3-4x/week. Mixing in gravel rides. Itching to get back on trails.

Seems like you're nailing it then, Stapes. Lmk how/if I can help in the future.

On time-crunched training:

-I bike commute to work so that's about 5 hrs per week of "free" training.
-I'm lucky and have an incredible amount of trails within a 10-20 minute drive.
-Sometimes I use the dog as an excuse to get out.
-Two hard interval sessions per week can go a long, long ways.

I would caution against two hard interval (running) sessions per week without a solid Z1/Z2 base (which I think you have DTM; most beginners don't). Assuming the goal is multiple-hour runs in the mountains, I would recommend min 5+ hrs week of z1/z2 for months before building to one interval and then maybe two hard interval sessions a week. (If they are bike intervals, they are more tolerated because of the lack of impact).

While I don't have kids, I think the general principle applies: getting up before everyone else is up (family, work colleagues, etc.) usually allows the training to proceed unimpeded most of the time (the afternoons/evenings have more opportunities for conflicts).

My thoughts on time-crunched training (5-8 hrs per week) for trail running long distances:
-80ish% z1/z2 (usually ~3days/week) - totally fine if has to be flat based on convenience (though not as fun)
-once base is established (few months), incorporate strides (4x 20, 6x 30, etc.)
-once strides are smooth, work in one interval workout a week (2x 3mins on, 90 secs on; 4x 2mins, etc.)
-one long run/week in the mountains with elevation similar to race profile / or what’s fun; aim to consume 2-300 cals/hr
-min one day off week (especially for the 30/40+ year old crowd)
-10min core/PT after every run
-5min dynamic warmup before every run
-have a why for all of it

[oldnew_guy]

Does anyone wear or have an advice on an ankle brace that works for running?

I sprained/strained/overflexed my ankle playing soccer on a foot-ball-foot tackle where my ankle strength lost out maybe 2-3 months ago. (Other person was striking the ball on goal, I put my foot in the line of fire and paid the price.) I wore a Wraptor ankle brace for a few weeks, but otherwise I'm fine for day to day. I get some post run soreness and I'm wondering if wearing a minimal brace would help.

[Dantheman]

I would caution against two hard interval (running) sessions per week without a solid Z1/Z2 base (which I think you have DTM; most beginners don't). Assuming the goal is multiple-hour runs in the mountains, I would recommend min 5+ hrs week of z1/z2 for months before building to one interval and then maybe two hard interval sessions a week. (If they are bike intervals, they are more tolerated because of the lack of impact).

That advice was specifically for ISBD who has a solid foundation.

[stapes]

Sounds goods. Maybe we can combine with some fishing?

There's some high alpine lakes that would be ideal for this. Been meaning to put together a small fishing kit for this purpose. I'll shoot you a PM.

Seems like you're nailing it then, Stapes. Lmk how/if I can help in the future.

yea I don't know about 'nailing it', but I'm trying!! Really just trying to not do too much too soon and cause some injuries again. Mix things up. But I am missing long trail runs right about now. I'll get back to it. Nothing on the calendar so no huge rush other than my own desire.

[Dantheman]

Been on a scrambling kick lately.

[benk]

+1 for nose breathing. I hyperventilated 10hrs into my first 100k after thinking I needed to breath deep at altitude. It happened one time before on a 50miler that caused a DNF.

This time I finished out the remaining 6.5hrs nose breathing with no issues. Probably will go get checked out to make sure it’s not something else but I never knew nose breathing made such a difference for me.

[Buke]

+1 for nose breathing. I hyperventilated 10hrs into my first 100k after thinking I needed to breath deep at altitude. It happened one time before on a 50miler that caused a DNF.

This time I finished out the remaining 6.5hrs nose breathing with no issues. Probably will go get checked out to make sure it’s not something else but I never knew nose breathing made such a difference for me.

Does anyone else deal with a nose that starts running like a faucet the second that they start exercising? I try to nose breath and it lasts like 5 seconds before I can't stand sucking in and blowing out snot on every breath. I feel like I lose more fluid out my nose than I do from sweating.