Running, Anyone...?

[BeanDip4All]

all you need now is someone to give you a high five!

[road trip]

all you need now is someone to give you a high five!

No worries! There was a Brazilian Coockaracha (spelling, obviously) band with scantily clad dancing women at the turn off of 42nd St. They all got the road trip high-five.

(as well as a band on 7th Ave)

(as well as two other groups of spectators on 7th Ave)

(oh, and the peeps that were at the turn out of Central Park got the Stephen Colbert "wooooooooooooooooooo!!!" with hands pumping them up into a frenzy!)

yes, I'm a dork

[steve]

hey roadtrip, congrats dude. that's an awesome half-performance for a half-event.

(:

bd4a gave me a piece of advice a couple of weeks ago, which i have taken to heart: run for 21 consecutive days. establish a habit, or some shit. i said, "ok."

as of this morning, i am up to 10 consecutive days. I wasn't feeling good yesterday, swollen gland or something. but I didn't want to kill the streak, so I got dressed up after I got home from work (it was 9pm), with a flashlight, reflective vest, and a garmin. I didn't bother with the HRM, i felt so crummy i figger'd i'd only run a mile or so..

but it's funny, and this happened on sunday, too: no matter how crummy feel before and during the first few minutes of a run, i always feel good by mile 1. I ended up running just under 3 miles on both yesterday and sunday, even though both runs were planned to be just a mile.

running every day, just to keep a streak alive, has had an amazing result - besides the theoretical beginning of a habit. i've noticed an amazing endurance and (dare i say it?) speed gain in just 10 days of running consecutive. With a couple of exceptions, I've planned to keep the workouts easy to promote recovery from consecutive hammerin', but most of the easy workouts have turned out harder than planned because i'd decide to go an extra mile, or i'd see a hill and say "fuck it, i'm going for it." the hard workouts have been amazing, too - I felt so good after the trail-run up bear mountain that I did a 3½ mile easy jog afterwards. I felt so good after 9 miles of a 12-mile long run that I did the last 3 90 seconds/mile faster than the first 9, and finished strong. I keep exceeding my own expectations.. and my confidence is building as a result.

My plans for the fall are exciting.. what started out as a time goal for a marathon have turned into an endurance goal for multiple marathons and a 50k! i'm really eager to get that 50k done so i can call myself an "ultrarunner," because it's such a far cry from my super-fat days.

"I used to be fat. I still am, but I used to be, too."

anyway..

yeah.

-steve

[steve]

PS I have a new "steve is smoking crack" dream goal, the hardrock 100..

check out these photos:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Hardrock...n/Hardrock2007

amazing.

-steve

[Tuckerman]

Did really well at my sprint tri this weekend- 5th in my age group!

Wow great job!

[road trip]

bd4a gave me a piece of advice a couple of weeks ago, which i have taken to heart: run for 21 consecutive days. establish a habit, or some shit. i said, "ok."

Hmmm... interesting concept that I just may have to try to incorporate into my training. As much as I say I can't get out of bed in the AM to run before work, maybe I'll give it a shot again; but instead of doing the 7 mile run, only do the 5 mile loop...

I'll be in Vegas next Sunday-Wednesday. I'll probably be the only person on the treadmills!!

[montanaskier]

Mrs Montanaskier is running an event again this weekend. The Georgetown to Idaho Springs half marathon. It is downhill 1k so she should do pretty well. Wish her luck, she is a maniac!

[road trip]

I remember her Boston triumph... report back on Monday. I'll put her in the 1:30 to 1:35 range!

[topwater]

my running tr....
did the mt werner challenge last weekend. it was a 12 mile run that goes from the base of steamboat to the top of the storm peak express (9.6 miles up) and then 2.4 miles down to the top of the gondola.

decided to do this the day before. i had a pretty light week due to work and trying to sleep, so i figured it would make a nice rest taper for the run. i was nervous as hell about the uphill, since the weekend before i blew up on my long run (would have been 16-18 miles, new route) and quit at 12 miles after a rough time on a long, steep uphill trail.

looked at the map and course descriptions and decided to start really slow and try not to blow up on the uphill (or at least too early). the race started and i was literally one of the last 2-3 people running up the dirt road from the gondola base towards the bottom of thunderhead. felt like i wasn't working hard at all either with the heartrate or the breathing. as we approached thunderhead i realized that my plan seemed to be working. i started passing other runners and then we got on a beatuiful shaded singletrack through some aspens on the way towards rendezvous saddle. some slight downhill and flat sections allowed some rest and the ability to pick up speed. a slight downhill towards the base of the sundown express, and then the first uphill i walked. on the next uphill and short downhill before the final uphill push on pete's wicked trail i passed the last two runners i would end up passing. the last uphill was mostly running with short walking breaks until the course moved to a service road heading towards the top of storm peak. tried to push hard once i saw the top (probably my pushing hard looked like a slo-mo version of running fast) but then it was 2.4 miles of steep downhill to the gondola. tried to keep the feet moving fast and tried not to break too much on the downhill.

finished about 23 minutes behind the winner, but had a fun time... especially loved running on the edge of some of the service roads looking down through the woods imagining it with about 20-30 inches of new snow and the tree skiing that awaits this winter. i loved on the uphill that every once in awhile i would look down towards the valley and think " damn we've climbed a lot already.", and then you'd look up and realize you had a long way to go (or i'd look at the garmin watch and see how much further it was). first longer trail race since restarting running back in january and was pleased at how my training is coming, even with the occasional feel like shit runs.

i've been following this thread since the beginning and just want to give it up to those such as steve who are losing a lot of weight and getting their shit together health wise. it's a bitch... starting is the hardest part (i used to weigh 310) and it's great to hear.

next race, continental divide trail race (16 miles) and then some more training to see if i can go sub 1:40 at the moab half in october.

[mrryde]

PS I have a new "steve is smoking crack" dream goal, the hardrock 100..

check out these photos:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Hardrock...n/Hardrock2007

amazing.

-steve

Steve,

Get out of the heat, its making you loopy...

Ive heard that Massanutten Trail 100 is pretty crazy too.

[road trip]

my running tr....

...but then it was 2.4 miles of steep downhill to the gondola. tried to keep the feet moving fast and tried not to break too much on the downhill.

Good stuff, TW.

2.4 miles of steep downhill sounds pretty wicked. Particularly on the end; "please feet, please land on terra firma when I expect you to!"

[steve]

Steve,

Get out of the heat, its making you loopy...

Ive heard that Massanutten Trail 100 is pretty crazy too.

smoking crack will do that to you..
I just fell in love with the pictures of that course. amazing.

regarding difficulty among these things someone posted this on the ultra listserv, i'm not sure how much credit we should give it, but it was interesting.

******************************************

Ever wondering about the relative difficulty among the 100 mile races?
Between an Ironman and 100 mile ultra? half Ironman vs. 50 milers?
Here is an analysis I have done using the data collected
in the RealEndurance.Com database.
The percentage is benchmarked against Western State 100.

This may be a useful tool for those have a particular time
goal in the 100 mile race, and want to use other event to gauage
their training progress.

A general trend can be observed below:

From 50 km to 100 mile, factor is 4 to 6.
From 50 mile to 100 mile, factor is 2.5 to 3.5

-------------------

Relative Event Finish Time to Western States 100 Mile .

Sample Criteria:
Same person completed both the event in the list and WS100 in the same year.
The relative percentage is averaged over the samples.

Dist Samples Event

100m 18 161.3% Hard Rock 100 Mile
135m 44 158.7% BadWater Ultra Marathon
100m 19 131.6% HURT Trail 100 Mile
100m 355 119.0% Wasatch Front 100 Mile
100m 12 112.4% Bear 100 Mile
100m 30 111.1% Massanutten Mountain Trails 100 Mile
100m 240 108.7% Angeles Crest 100 Mile
100m 4 107.5% Superior Sawtooth 100 Mile
100m 24 106.4% Cascade Crest 100 Mile
100m 365 104.2% Leadville Trail 100 Miles
100m 11 101.0% San Diego 100 Mile
100m 6189 100.0% Western States 100 Miles
100m 44 92.6% Rio Del Lago 100 Mile
100m 5 90.1% SULPHUR SPRINGS 100 Mile
100m 10 87.0% Mohican Trail 100 Mile
100m 55 87.0% Arkansas Traveller 100 Mile
100m 69 87.0% Old Dominion 100 Mile One Day
100m 11 86.2% Javelina Jundred 100 Mile
100m 233 84.7% Vermont Trail 100 Miles
100m 7 84.0% Heartland 100 Mile
100m 5 82.6% Kettle Moraine 100 mile
100k 13 82.6% HURT Trail 100k option
100m 4 80.0% Old Dominion 100 mile Memorial Day
100m 31 80.0% Umstead 100 Mile
100m 82 79.4% Rocky Raccoon 100mi
140m 4 71.9% IronMan CoeurdAlene
140m 3 71.4% IronMan Canada
100k 19 60.2% Where's Waldo 100K
200m 4 59.2% Mt Tam Double Century 200m
140m 9 57.5% IronMan Wisconsin
100k 10 51.5% Bandera 100km
140m 10 50.3% IronMan USA Lake Placid
50m 95 47.8% Zane Grey 50 Miles
100k 626 47.2% Miwok 100K
100k 11 46.1% Kettle Moraine 100 km
140m 3 44.6% IronMan Hawaii World Championship
140m 9 44.6% IronMan Florida
52m 192 39.7% Sierra Nevada
100k 95 39.5% Ruth Anderson 100k
50m 46 38.5% Crown King Scramble
50m 91 38.3% White River 50 Miles
50m 20 36.9% Tahoe Rim Trail 50m
50m 48 36.9% Run on the Sly 50m
50m 283 36.8% FireTrail 50 Miles
50m 212 36.5% Nugget 50 Miles
50m 299 36.5% Quicksilver 50 Mile
50m 12 36.1% McNaughton Park Trail Runs
50m 194 35.1% Silver State 50m
50m 324 34.6% California 50 Miles
50m 4 34.0% Mt Hood PCT 50m
50m 28 33.4% McKenzie River 50k
50m 1658 33.4% American River 50 Miles
50m 106 33.3% Cow Mountain 50 Miles
50m 23 32.7% Umstead 50 Miles
50m 150 32.7% Avalon 50 Miles
50k 199 32.4% Silver State 50k
50k 41 31.8% Baldy Peak 50k
50m 12 31.5% Rocky Raccon 50 Miles
35m 24 31.2% Santa Barbara 9 Trails 35 Mile
50m 290 30.5% Jed Smith 50m
50m 102 30.2% Helen Klein 50m
50m 15 29.0% Ruth Anderson 50m
36m 3 28.2% Haleakala Run to the Sun
50k 31 28.2% Tahoe Rim Trail 50k
38m 13 27.4% Haleakala Run to the Sun
50k 254 23.8% Ohlone Wilderness 50K Trail Run
71m 13 23.4% WildFlower Long Course Triathlon
71m 9 23.1% California Half Ironman
34m 20 22.6% Peterson Ridge Rumble 60k
50k 6 22.5% Bandera 50km
50k 57 22.3% Run on the Sly 50 Km
50k 152 22.1% Golden Gate Headlands 50k
28m 406 22.1% Quad Dipsea
50k 88 21.9% McDonald Forest 50K
50k 80 21.6% Crown King Scramble
50k 16 21.0% Bulldog 50K Ultra Run
50k 35 20.9% Chuckanut 50k
50k 12 20.7% Siskiyou Out Back 50K
50k 340 20.6% Skyline 50k
50k 197 20.2% Quicksilver 50K
50k 870 20.0% Way Too Cool 50k
50k 39 19.8% Hagg Lake Trail Runs
50k 21 19.4% McKenzie River 50k
50k 10 18.6% Ruth Anderson 50k
50k 88 17.7% OTHTC High Desert Ultra 50k
50k 8 17.2% Salem Lakeshore Frosty Fifty Km
50k 268 17.0% Jed Smith 50K
50k 23 16.9% Helen Klein 50k
45m 9 13.8% Santa Barbara Long Course Triathlon

[BeanDip4All]

100m 18 161.3% Hard Rock 100 Mile
135m 44 158.7% BadWater Ultra Marathon
100m 19 131.6% HURT Trail 100 Mile
100m 355 119.0% Wasatch Front 100 Mile
100m 12 112.4% Bear 100 Mile
100m 30 111.1% Massanutten Mountain Trails 100 Mile
100m 240 108.7% Angeles Crest 100 Mile
100m 4 107.5% Superior Sawtooth 100 Mile
100m 24 106.4% Cascade Crest 100 Mile
100m 365 104.2% Leadville Trail 100 Miles
100m 11 101.0% San Diego 100 Mile
100m 6189 100.0% Western States 100 Miles
100m 44 92.6% Rio Del Lago 100 Mile
100m 5 90.1% SULPHUR SPRINGS 100 Mile
100m 10 87.0% Mohican Trail 100 Mile
100m 55 87.0% Arkansas Traveller 100 Mile
100m 69 87.0% Old Dominion 100 Mile One Day
100m 11 86.2% Javelina Jundred 100 Mile
100m 233 84.7% Vermont Trail 100 Miles
100m 7 84.0% Heartland 100 Mile
100m 5 82.6% Kettle Moraine 100 mile
100k 13 82.6% HURT Trail 100k option
100m 4 80.0% Old Dominion 100 mile Memorial Day
100m 31 80.0% Umstead 100 Mile
100m 82 79.4% Rocky Raccoon 100mi
140m 4 71.9% IronMan CoeurdAlene
140m 3 71.4% IronMan Canada
100k 19 60.2% Where's Waldo 100K
200m 4 59.2% Mt Tam Double Century 200m
140m 9 57.5% IronMan Wisconsin
100k 10 51.5% Bandera 100km
140m 10 50.3% IronMan USA Lake Placid
50m 95 47.8% Zane Grey 50 Miles
100k 626 47.2% Miwok 100K
100k 11 46.1% Kettle Moraine 100 km
140m 3 44.6% IronMan Hawaii World Championship
140m 9 44.6% IronMan Florida
52m 192 39.7% Sierra Nevada
100k 95 39.5% Ruth Anderson 100k
50m 46 38.5% Crown King Scramble
50m 91 38.3% White River 50 Miles
50m 20 36.9% Tahoe Rim Trail 50m
50m 48 36.9% Run on the Sly 50m
50m 283 36.8% FireTrail 50 Miles
50m 212 36.5% Nugget 50 Miles
50m 299 36.5% Quicksilver 50 Mile
50m 12 36.1% McNaughton Park Trail Runs
50m 194 35.1% Silver State 50m
50m 324 34.6% California 50 Miles
50m 4 34.0% Mt Hood PCT 50m
50m 28 33.4% McKenzie River 50k
50m 1658 33.4% American River 50 Miles
50m 106 33.3% Cow Mountain 50 Miles
50m 23 32.7% Umstead 50 Miles
50m 150 32.7% Avalon 50 Miles
50k 199 32.4% Silver State 50k
50k 41 31.8% Baldy Peak 50k
50m 12 31.5% Rocky Raccon 50 Miles
35m 24 31.2% Santa Barbara 9 Trails 35 Mile
50m 290 30.5% Jed Smith 50m
50m 102 30.2% Helen Klein 50m
50m 15 29.0% Ruth Anderson 50m
36m 3 28.2% Haleakala Run to the Sun
50k 31 28.2% Tahoe Rim Trail 50k
38m 13 27.4% Haleakala Run to the Sun
50k 254 23.8% Ohlone Wilderness 50K Trail Run
71m 13 23.4% WildFlower Long Course Triathlon
71m 9 23.1% California Half Ironman
34m 20 22.6% Peterson Ridge Rumble 60k
50k 6 22.5% Bandera 50km
50k 57 22.3% Run on the Sly 50 Km
50k 152 22.1% Golden Gate Headlands 50k
28m 406 22.1% Quad Dipsea
50k 88 21.9% McDonald Forest 50K
50k 80 21.6% Crown King Scramble
50k 16 21.0% Bulldog 50K Ultra Run
50k 35 20.9% Chuckanut 50k
50k 12 20.7% Siskiyou Out Back 50K
50k 340 20.6% Skyline 50k
50k 197 20.2% Quicksilver 50K
50k 870 20.0% Way Too Cool 50k
50k 39 19.8% Hagg Lake Trail Runs
50k 21 19.4% McKenzie River 50k
50k 10 18.6% Ruth Anderson 50k
50k 88 17.7% OTHTC High Desert Ultra 50k
50k 8 17.2% Salem Lakeshore Frosty Fifty Km
50k 268 17.0% Jed Smith 50K
50k 23 16.9% Helen Klein 50k
45m 9 13.8% Santa Barbara Long Course Triathlon

Knowing that IMLP has more elevation loss than IMCdA, IMCanada, and IMWI combined, I fail to see the veracity of this list. Also, where is Ironman Lousiville?!??!

[steve]

Knowing that IMLP has more elevation loss than IMCdA, IMCanada, and IMWI combined, I fail to see the veracity of this list. Also, where is Ironman Lousiville?!??!

since it is based on a survey of people who've actually completed the races, and who've also done western states in the same year, and on their opinions on relative difficulty, I would give it a little more credit.

The reason IMKY is omitted is nobody's done it yet. wee..

[Viva]

Knowing that IMLP has more elevation loss than IMCdA, IMCanada, and IMWI combined, I fail to see the veracity of this list. Also, where is Ironman Lousiville?!??!

It also doesn't take into account the weather or other conditions at a given race in a particular year. Western States in 95 was way ("way" as in way the fuck) tougher than it was in 91 or 97.

Think of all the human variables at play. Someone coming back from injury, having a bad day at one race, but killing it in another. There are people who compete in numerous events and may do better earlier in the year than later.

That list may be somewhat accurate, but it's pretty impossible to glean anything useful from it.

That guy really abused the way-back machine to get some of his data. A few of those ultras are no longer held. Cow Mtn, for instance, disapeared back in the 80s.


EDIT- No, Steve. No opinions, just finishing times. I bet a people's opinions survey would look differenter

[steve]

It also doesn't take into account the weather or other conditions at a given race in a particular year. Western States in 95 was way ("way" as in way the fuck) tougher than it was in 91 or 97.

Think of all the human variables at play. Someone coming back from injury, having a bad day at one race, but killing it in another. There are people who compete in numerous events and may do better earlier in the year than later.

That list may be somewhat accurate, but it's pretty impossible to glean anything useful from it.

That guy really abused the way-back machine to get some of his data. A few of those ultras are no longer held. Cow Mtn, for instance, disapeared back in the 80s.


EDIT- No, Steve. No opinions, just finishing times. I bet a people's opinions survey would look differenter

makes sense. looks like he tried to get the largest sample of data possible, to include as many years as possible.. I suspect that the more data he gets, the more anomalies like bad weather in a given year will be ironed out.

at any rate, i think it is interesting, not only as an attempt to compare race difficulty, but also as an exercise in data mining.

and as inaccurate as it may be, it's probably the best thing we've got..

[wandering, not lost]

I'll be in Vegas next Sunday-Wednesday. I'll probably be the only person on the treadmills!!

Perhaps the only one on the treadmills, but if you're looking to get outside, morning runs in red rock are quite nice. There are a lot of fairly flat trails and it's cooler at higher elevations.

I'm getting anxious for it to cool off here so that I can run outside after work. I really can't make myself get up at 5.

[road trip]

So, once again, I lost count of the number of 800s that I did at the track. Anybody recommend a watch that has a very simple face, specifically showing overall time, number of laps, AND current lap time?

I have a Reebok heart rate monitor that doesn't quite show all I need at the same time; I prefer to see my current lap time in big numbers and the overall time in smaller numbers.


PS - thanks, WnL, I'll see how easy it is to escape the strip for Red Rocks Canyon! Hopefully, I'll be able to get running some time sans treadmill.

[mrryde]

So, once again, I lost count of the number of 800s that I did at the track. Anybody recommend a watch that has a very simple face, specifically showing overall time, number of laps, AND current lap time?

I have a Reebok heart rate monitor that doesn't quite show all I need at the same time; I prefer to see my current lap time in big numbers and the overall time in smaller numbers.


PS - thanks, WnL, I'll see how easy it is to escape the strip for Red Rocks Canyon! Hopefully, I'll be able to get running some time sans treadmill.

Timex Ironman?

Also running in 90 degree heat sucks monkey balls.

[wandering, not lost]

Also running in 90 degree heat sucks monkey balls.

Running in 110 degree heat, 20% humidity sucks even more. It's impossible to carry enough water.

[mrryde]

Running in 110 degree heat, 20% humidity sucks even more. It's impossible to carry enough water.

yeah the heat index was about 106 here...uggg

[baxter]

Mrs Montanaskier is running an event again this weekend. The Georgetown to Idaho Springs half marathon. It is downhill 1k so she should do pretty well. Wish her luck, she is a maniac!

Congrats to her, i was actually at the second water station today helping out. And for future refrence my drive way is perfect parking for this event so if anyone ever wants to shoot me a pm and you can park there.

[Dantheman]

Just got back from the Jupiter Peak Steeplechase (base of Park City to Jupiter Peak and down, 16 miles, ~4k total vert), great run!

Finished in 2:29.24, quite a bit faster than I was expecting. 27/150ish overall, 9th in the 20-29 group. Real confidence booster, I am really liking my chances of breaking four hours in the Mid Mountain Marathon in four weeks.

Great course (except for the loose, super steep and shitty scramble the last few hundred vert to the peak), felt great the whole time. Resisted the urge to go out too fast during the mass clusterfuck start and ended up picking people off the whole way, never got passed. Now enjoying a beer and in dire need of a shower

[montanaskier]

Mrs. Montanaskier was 37th overall and 11th in her division. Posted a 1:37 a PR for a half!!!! Next up is the Snowmass to Aspen half in September.

[road trip]

Finished in 2:29.24, quite a bit faster than I was expecting. 27/150ish overall, 9th in the 20-29 group.

Resisted the urge to go out too fast during the mass clusterfuck start and ended up picking people off the whole way, never got passed.

Great job! Sounds like a pretty wicked run. Holding back at the beginning is hard to do, yet so worthwhile. And like you said, getting off slow and picking off people at the end is waaaay better than starting fast and getting passed (regardless if you finish in the exact same time!).

Mrs. Montanaskier was 37th overall and 11th in her division. Posted a 1:37 a PR for a half!!!! Next up is the Snowmass to Aspen half in September.

Very impressive run! Drop her yet another congratulations from the collective! Any more marathons upcoming? You guys coming out to Boston again?