AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

**jumpturn** · 01-24-2013, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

I use my Lange RS 130's as a measuring stick - they've been around for a long time and have remained largely unchanged (unlike the RX and LX, which I don't consider 130 boots), plus it's readily available in a reasonable width to try on (not always true of 140-150 flex plug boots). If you think that's a valid starting point, I think you should add at least 10 to those numbers, maybe 20 to the TLT5P. The production Vulcan (reportedly a little stiffer than the one you tried) is stiffer than the RS 130 out of the box.

You're saying that the dynafit vulcan chimes in at an alpine flex rating of 130 and is comparable to the lange RS 130 in stiffness?

Wow! Sounds like a big step up from the mercury, which apparently collapses at the end of its forward flex.

Is the vulcan then not a break through in AT boot stiffness and ability to drive big fat skis with authority?

Are these claims with the stock liners or with intuitions?

Are there some details on lateral and longitudinal stiffness?

I'm skeptical but prepared to pick up a pair if this is so.

Edit: leelau has the titans at 100 and the vulcan at 110. This makes more sense to me. I have been skiing titans for two years and i find them too soft for my purposes and with a foward flex that blocks. So, the question is 110 or 130 for the vulcans. Skiing them on some stiff 190cm skis with 115 underfoot will surely make clear there true stiffness. (Skiing on some 172cm x 80mm noodles probably makes anything seem stiff!)

Edit2: wild snow says the vulcans are game changers but not 130 flex.
http://www.wildsnow.com/8407/vulcan-...south-america/

**gregL** · 01-24-2013, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by jumpturn

You're saying that the dynafit vulcan chimes in at an alpine flex rating of 130 and is comparable to the lange RS 130 in stiffness? Wow! Sounds like a big step up from the mercury, which apparently collapses at the end of its forward flex.

I'd say the Vulcan (tongue in) is stiffer initially than my RS130's, but doesn't have the same sort of progression in the flex. I wouldn't expect it to due to the construction. IMO the difference in flex between the Vulcan and Mercury is not that great, maybe 5% - at my size (5'8" 165 lbs.) I can't get either boot to collapse over the instep, maybe bigger people experience this. I'm still using the stock liners.

Is the Vulcan a breakthrough boot in terms of forward stiffness for the weight? Probably.

Lee is still thinking about revising his numbers, if I recall - I would be inclined to try the boot, flex it while in a binding and decide for yourself if you're thinking about buying it.

**gregL** · 01-24-2013, 08:37 PM

PS What Louie says about the Vulcans is "The Vulcans deliver stiffness in a way that’s beyond most AT boots, but they’re still not up to the level of an alpine race plug boot" - he doesn't directly compare them to an RS130, which is a de-tuned version of Lange's WC plug models and not as stiff as a ZB or ZC shell (just as the RX130 is not as stiff as an RS130). At any rate, I wouldn't get too caught up in the numbers, just try them on.

**jumpturn** · 01-25-2013, 09:44 AM

Ok, thanks.

I'm just looking to drive some 187 bros with little more authority than the titans provide.

**Tony** · 04-10-2013, 12:04 PM

Tony is back!

After a 4-year hiatus I believe is time to update our beloved Boot Flex list. What do you say?

Already included several Dynafit and Scarpa models of the last 3 years. Any feedback from BD non-Factor rando (light) boot users will be appreciated.

What it's really amazing to me about technology is that the stiffest boot you could get just 8 years ago, the Scarpa Denali XT (a 4-buckle boot), is comparable today to the Dynafit TLT 5 Performance (a 2-buckle boot)!

At a price, though. But thank God for carbon fiber...

**GeezerSteve** · 04-10-2013, 01:12 PM

Tony sighting. Holy shit.

**LeeLau** · 04-10-2013, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Tony

Tony is back!

After a 4-year hiatus I believe is time to update our beloved Boot Flex list. What do you say?

Already included several Dynafit and Scarpa models of the last 3 years. Any feedback from BD non-Factor rando (light) boot users will be appreciated.

What it's really amazing to me about technology is that the stiffest boot you could get just 8 years ago, the Scarpa Denali XT (a 4-buckle boot), is comparable today to the Dynafit TLT 5 Performance (a 2-buckle boot)!

At a price, though. But thank God for carbon fiber...

Hi Tony - sorry I didn't want to steal your idea but had no idea how to contact you other than thru PMs which I did try. Your list was awesome and a great idea and thank you very much for starting it. I hope that the community feedback concept you started can continue on --- it's quite a look back at history when seeing your original list

Edit - here's the updated list I tried to start. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ot+comparative. I wrote an article for the TGR front page about your original post and my attempted updates and asked the webguy to sticky both threads but I don't know wtf they've been doing as nothing's been done.

**grinch** · 04-10-2013, 03:12 PM

yup, sticky would be nice. great resource. props to Tony and Lee for getting this going again and all the other contributors. lots of new boots coming down the pipe. should get interesting

**bean** · 04-11-2013, 08:51 AM

I feel like the PDG (and by association the Evo) rating is too low. Don't know where it should be but down with a floppy old F1 seems wrong.

**Tony** · 04-11-2013, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by LeeLau

Hi Tony - sorry I didn't want to steal your idea but had no idea how to contact you other than thru PMs which I did try. Your list was awesome and a great idea and thank you very much for starting it. I hope that the community feedback concept you started can continue on --- it's quite a look back at history when seeing your original list

Edit - here's the updated list I tried to start. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ot+comparative. I wrote an article for the TGR front page about your original post and my attempted updates and asked the webguy to sticky both threads but I don't know wtf they've been doing as nothing's been done.

Sorry about the break. Nice job on the updated list. Thanks for keeping it up.

HOWEVER, my alpine boot is a Lange RC World Cup 120 and after trying the Vulcan this winter I can tell you with certainty that there is no way a Dynafit Vulcan is close to a 130 stiffness. Vulcan is at 110, at the most.

**gregL** · 04-11-2013, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Tony

HOWEVER, my alpine boot is a Lange RC World Cup 120 and after trying the Vulcan this winter I can tell you with certainty that there is no way a Dynafit Vulcan is close to a 130 stiffness.

There is a way. Flex index only refers to how much force it takes to flex the boot in the forward direction, it doesn't reflect on how solid the boot feels on your foot (fit plays a part in this) or how stable it is when skiing. A 1590 gram boot is going to be at a disadvantage for downhill stability vs. a 2200 gram boot. My alpine boot is a Lange RS130 and I feel the Vulcan flex is stiffer initially but doesn't finish as strong. The flex pattern is different, but on average they are very similar.

**grinch** · 04-28-2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Smiley

I have some time on the Cochise´s touring and inbounds and would say they run a bit soft. 110 is my call. For comparison I ski an Atomic RT CS130 plugboot for most days inbounds, but looking to throw some Intuitions in the Cochise and just run one boot. Hopefully Intuitions will help stiffen them up a bit, maybe a booster strap for ripping around inbounds? I will update after getting new liners. To reiterate whats already been stated many times...the stock Cochise liner is absolute shit.

Off topic: If I get an Intuition liner could I swap between the Cochise and the plugboot? What I mean by this is it bad to do this?

bump. any update on this ? was that cochise 130? any chance technica's can be added on to OP's list?

**LeeLau** · 04-28-2013, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by grinch

bump. any update on this ? was that cochise 130? any chance technica's can be added on to OP's list?

Technicas are on the updated list I started

**grinch** · 04-28-2013, 11:01 PM

k thought that was funny they weren't included. tried the search in this thread. thanks

**shafty85** · 05-01-2013, 05:49 PM

How is this not stickied?

**grinch** · 05-01-2013, 06:10 PM

^^ya actually the other updated thread would be best. I've looked a few times now

**LeeLau** · 05-01-2013, 06:58 PM

I asked a few times. Webguy hasn't bothered.

**LeeLau** · 11-14-2013, 12:59 PM

This thread AT Boot Comparative Flex by model *updated* seems to have an error - everyone else get that?

Cached - http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&hl=en&ct=clnk

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...odel-*updated* - was the original

**Lindahl** · 11-14-2013, 01:49 PM

Yeah, I see the same problem.

**JayPowHound** · 11-14-2013, 03:44 PM

Huh.. works fine on app.

**LeeLau** · 11-14-2013, 03:51 PM

Whew - it got fixed. Thanks to TGR webguy

**coldfeet** · 11-18-2013, 11:14 AM

That's still broken for me (due to the asterisks in title?) but this link may work: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...odel-(updated)

**YoEddy** · 11-18-2013, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by gregL

.... Flex index only refers to how much force it takes to flex the boot in the forward direction, it doesn't reflect on how solid the boot feels on your foot (fit plays a part in this) or how stable it is when skiing. A 1590 gram boot is going to be at a disadvantage for downhill stability vs. a 2200 gram boot. My alpine boot is a Lange RS130 and I feel the Vulcan flex is stiffer initially but doesn't finish as strong. The flex pattern is different, but on average they are very similar.

Have to agree with this, and I have the same boots (well, alpine boot is a WC 140, but effectively the same). The Vulcan is the stiffest AT boot I have ever had or tried on. It's got the funky flex pattern, or lack thereof, that makes it difficult to compare, but it's a powerful boot when mated to a like style lightweight BC ski. That said, I don't think it's realistic to expect race boot power regardless of the flex.

**Mantana1** · 11-18-2013, 10:22 PM

Any chance the two lists (tony + lee) could be combined to avoid having to flip back and forth between them and to clear up differences in flex rating of certain boots between one list and the other?

(I realize these are subjective and relative ratings but its an awesome resource nonetheless)
((also a big thanks to tony + lee for compiling these lists))

**LeeLau** · 11-18-2013, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mantana1

Any chance the two lists (tony + lee) could be combined to avoid having to flip back and forth between them and to clear up differences in flex rating of certain boots between one list and the other?

(I realize these are subjective and relative ratings but its an awesome resource nonetheless)
((also a big thanks to tony + lee for compiling these lists))

The "updated" thread is Tony's list + my list + the most current updates. Unfortunately the discussion flips back and forth between the two threads which is confusing. I've asked for the thread started to myself to be stickied since I can't modify or update Tony's list. Not trying to supplant Tony but its just my impression that he's not paying much attention to this thread or list; which is totally his prerogative