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Thread: AT Boot Flex Comparative List by model

  1. #226
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    Oh ya- and... any chance of a sticky for this thread?

  2. #227
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    yeah!
    STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #228
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    Question Radium

    It seems Garmont Radium is missing from the list. This is the info I have received from Garmont:
    Mega-Ride 110AT
    Radium 120AT
    Adrenalin 120AT
    Axon 130AT
    Endorphin 130AT

    Thus, Radium is supposedly about the same as Adrenalin. Does this match real world experience?

  4. #229
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    I had a radium on one foot and an endorphin on the other and they were damn close. The endorphin was actually a little softer until it hit the stop on the tongue, then way stiffer, but overall (average?) similiar. Neither was 120 or 130 on the 'index' (presuming a lange, for instance, might actually be 120.) If the gun is 95 (as salomon says and the index at the top of this list says) then I would say the radium and endorphin are around 100, maybe even 105.

    I was really surprised at how stiff the radium is. You'd have to find a reason not to choose it. Like not fitting.
    Last edited by srsosbso; 10-21-2008 at 09:00 AM.

  5. #230
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    only thing holding me backon the radium's right now is no feedback on lateral stiffness. My g-rides with stiff tongues have a stiff forward flex but are still noodles laterally. Unfortunately you can't get a feel for lateral stiffness in the shop.

  6. #231
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    I see that Scarpa's webpage is currently listing their flex ratings. Typhoon, Tornado, Skookum, and Spirit 4 ALL have flexes of 90 or 110, depending on the tongue I presume.

  7. #232
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    Waiting for Bernardo to chime in about the Skookum ...


    And I 5th the sticky idea.

  8. #233
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    Sticky This!

    I am shopping for a stiff AT boot and for the eternal stiff race boot guy this thread is AT Boot 101 and then sum

  9. #234
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    posted here for information

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernardo View Post

    Anybody know if the Skookums can be resoled? Can ANY dynafit compatible boots be resoled?
    Here's the answer right from Scarpa

    Yep, Skookum can be resoled, as can anything in the SCARPA ski lineup. Though part of that is, of course, finding a good resoler with the proper hardware/machinery to do the job (not a lot out there), and, beyond that, someone who can get hold of an original spec sole to replace it with. For what it’s worth, SCARPA keeps a list of people who they authorize to do work on their boots, if anyone ever needs it.

    Scarpa will get me that list and I'll post it up


    EDIT: Here is the list of recommended people who can resole AT boots.

    Gold Star Shoe Rebuilders Ltd
    www.goldstarshoerebuilders.com

    3308 Dunbar Street
    Vancouver, BC V6S 2C1
    (604) 734-7477



    Dave Page Cobblers in Seattle, 800.252.1229.



    Rocky Mountain Resole in Salida, CO. 719.539.1455.

  10. #235
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    Picking up the Skookum next week with new custom foot beds!

    I'm definetly excited for a stiff AT Boot. (coming from G-rides)

    It's going to make backcountry skiing SOOOO much better!

  11. #236
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    Hi,

    The list doesn't include the Dynafit Zzero U model, which is the translucent red boot. It's made out of polyurethane(gets stiffer in the cold) and comes with either a TF liner(Thermo Fit) or an MF liner(Multi Form). There don't seem to be any reviews of that boot anywhere. The only thing I was able to find was a comment that they were "stiff as all get out":

    http://www.wildsnow.com/582/report-f...fit-boot-line/

    and dynafit's marketing:
    The ZZero 4U is the polyurethane version of our 4-buckle range. With its transparent red color, this is the most striking and most downhill-oriented boot in the collection thanks to the PU reactivity (the fact that they become stiffer when cold).
    More downhill oriented than the Zzero Carbon? Anyone know anything more about that boot?

    My in shop experience:

    I tried on a pair of size 30's in the Zzero U-TF model and they seemed to fit really well. They felt a little softer than Factor's(size 29.5) and Skookums(size 29.5) that I also tried on. However, as I understand it, the Zzero U's are made of PU, so they should feel stiffer while skiing. I couldn't tell much difference between the stiffness of the Factors and the Skookums. I felt some pain on either side of my forefoot while wearing the Factors, i.e. they felt narrow, so I think the Factors fit narrower than the Zzeros and the Skookums. I was told that the Factor liner is thinner(?) and therefore thermo fitting might not be able to alleviate the pain I was feeling.

    The Factor's walk mode is much different than the other two boots: there was zero resistance in walk mode when I bent my ankle. With the other two boots, I still had to use some effort to flex the shell.

    Weights(size 27):

    Black Diamond Factor: 4130g (9.1 lbs)
    Scarpa Skookum: 3752g (8.3 lbs)
    Dynafit Zzero U-TF: 3420g (7.5 lbs)
    Last edited by happyriding; 11-11-2008 at 02:02 AM.

  12. #237
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    /\ there is a thread somewhere else mentioning that the PU is not stiffer than the carbon, apparently the confusion was caused by a poor language translation.

  13. #238
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    the PU is stiffer than the carbon at low temperatures, otherwise is more or less the same, but the weight is higher

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by verbier61 View Post
    the PU is stiffer than the carbon at low temperatures, otherwise is more or less the same, but the weight is higher
    I just bought a pair of the Zzero 4 PUs and tried them on for the first time yesterday. The boot pretty soft at home at room temperatures and I had my concerns about it ( first AT boots ever, skied Nordica Beasts so far). Once we got out in the mountain these boots became solid as rocks, T was -10 /-15 C , the plastic gets really hard at these temperatures, actually the boots felt stiffer than my Nordicas! I would rate them somewhere around 90-100 on my subjective flex scale..

  15. #240
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    bump for a sticky?
    For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was

  16. #241
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    Indeed. Sticky. Silly to have to search for this (repeatedly)

  17. #242
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    LIST UPDATED:

    - Garmont Radium included with slghtly softer flex to Endorphin and Axon (these two upgraded to new 95 flex category).
    - BD Method downgraded to 85 flex as it's softer than both Zzeus and Radium.
    - General consesus seems to be that BD Factor is the stiffest AT boot out there.
    - Long-time industry leader Scarpa seems to be lagging this year in terms of innovation (no 2009 overlap boot)

    AND YES, STICKY WOULD ALSO MAKE MY UPDATING JOB EASIER. THANKS.
    Last edited by Tony; 12-31-2008 at 09:27 AM.

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    - BD Method downgraded to 85 flex as it's softer than Zzeus.

    .......so is the factor. I had the same intuitions in each and the zeus was stiffer in forward flex. I guess I could believe the factor might be laterally stiffer but I haven't skied in it yet. Zeus is damn good in that department too though.

    I still think the BD boots have a better quality of flex though. Smoove and progressive.


    Funny how much better the options are even since you made this list the first time around. It's finally happening
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  19. #244
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    what's really amazing is to think back about 5 years when it was basically the Denali or nothing if you wanted a boot that was reasonable for the downhill. now the choice is almost bewildering for a simple fella like me
    fur bearing, drunk, prancing eurosnob

  20. #245
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    08' Zzero carbons(green)

    Quote Originally Posted by wilcox510 View Post
    ....Anyone here actually seen/flexed/fondled the Zzeros? KR on couloirmag.com is giving them very good reviews.
    Last season did the online buy/return -thing with the Zzero...their smallest shell was their #25...so I already had a hunch it was gonna be too big..especially in cuff/ankle..it was, but the cuff on the carbons really felt solid laterally..but then again..the cuff was a little big for me.....fwiw.
    $.01

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    .......so is the factor. I had the same intuitions in each and the zeus was stiffer in forward flex.
    Unfortunately, we have to go with general consensus here and it seems that off-the-shelf Factor is slightly stiffer than off-the-shelf Zzeus.

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Unfortunately, we have to go with general consensus here and it seems that off-the-shelf Factor is slightly stiffer than off-the-shelf Zzeus.
    Not when it's cold


    It's nuts now much those zeus boots stiffen up in cold weather. It's actually making me think that warm spring touring days are going to make my boots into slippers.


    That boa liner does seem like it does a really good job of taking up liner squish.....better than the zeus liner for sure.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  23. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Unfortunately, we have to go with general consensus here and it seems that off-the-shelf Factor is slightly stiffer than off-the-shelf Zzeus.
    off the shelf and in the store no fuckin' way
    zzeus felt much more solid to me
    i also believe that UAN will agree with this


    and to add a little axon review and input
    and as usual, my flex rating is about 10-15 points lower than what you have posted. (ie its safe to say we agree as we are differing by a consistent amount)



    ---------------------


    bump because i sent my Zzero4's in for the toe crack warranty and have been using the axons since then (before xmas)
    (stole this from an email i sent to a friend and edited it, so if it reads weird you know why)

    so now i have a good ~10 days or so on the axons (50/50 resort/bc)
    i really didnt count, but it gives you an idea of how much time i have in them
    50/50 days in naxos/dynafits

    those axons are OK boots, imho
    i dont like them for touring as the cuff comes too high imo
    makes my right hip flexor hurt (i think my right leg is the longer of the two) - (never have had hip flexor pain in my zzeros)
    walk mode is OK with a bit of rear compliance and good amount of forward. not as good as the zzeros but better than something like the zzues (in my store testing) or my old freeride aeros.
    ski mode is a little stiff in some nastier snows but is fine for straight pow and great for hardpack resort conditions
    the more upright of the two ski modes i think might be too upright or the boot just to stiff for my tastes as i constantly was fighting to get out of the backseat on skis i know very well and never had any trouble with in my freeride aeros or zzeros....perhaps its just the big jump in stiffness making the momentary balance changes more pronounced? i dont know, ymmv.

    theyre heavy which is bad for obvious reasons and good for bashing through stuff.
    really, this is the boot for people who want vibram and walk mode on their lange 120s\xwave 80+s\etc
    ie not me
    having skied in xwave8s a ton (flex of 90 according to solly), I would rate the axons around a 75-80 with excellent lateral stiffness. I no longer ski in my xwaves unless i break out the race sticks for one of those days.

    also, the tounge has that cambered shape where its radius of curvature was smaller than that of the boot so you had to crank the buckles one more notch than would have been necessary had they matched. the boot plastic seemed thick\heavy enough though so that you didnt create two\one hotspots where the buckles were
    i might have actually liked how the tounge applied a downward pressure due to this difference in shape
    I mention this because ive heard mention about other garmont boots having this same feature and then causing hot spots on some of the lighter boots, especially when using mod'ed tounges or something

    really really really want my zzeros back

  24. #249
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    ka bump

    sticky this already bitches
    For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    off the shelf and in the store no fuckin' way
    zzeus felt much more solid to me
    i also believe that UAN will agree with this.
    Hmm.
    Talked with couple of friends about that today,other said that they felt about the same and the other tought factor had been stiffer when he tried but didnt fit her foot.
    You mean solid in a construction wise way,more solid feeling liner (factors liner is kind mushy) or just plain ol´stiffer laterally and normally?

    Just out of curiosity.

    The floggings will continue until morale improves.

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