Apache Recon Binding Problems

[powdersoldier]

Earlier this season, I picked up a pair of 2007 Apache Recons with the integrated Marker Binding. I've probably got about 12-15 days on the ski.

This past weekend, I noticed that both toepieces on the binding can wiggle from side to side. This is very noticeable when the boot is not in the binding, but does not move quite as much when the boot is in the binding, but still moves enough that I have noticed it while skiing.

I took the skis back to the shop where I bought them, and they informed me that because of the integrated binding, it is supposed to do that (apparantly it's because the binding is mounted on a rail rather than the actual ski). They took the skis into the shop and tested the release on the binding, and told me they were safe and I shouldn 't be concerned about it yet, but should ski them for the rest of the season and then bring them back again at the end of the season to have them tested again. However, I can feel the binding shift slightly while skiing. I can't see why a binding that moves underfoot would be considered "normal" - if I move my boot, I want to turn, not shift the binding from side to side on the ski. I just can't see how this "feature" is safe to ski on.

Has anyone else noticed this, or heard of this happening, and if so, will K2 warranty the skis?

Note - I've searched the forum on this topic, but wasn't able to find anything. If the topic has already been discussed, can someone provide the link to the thread where it was discussed?

Thanks!

[MadMatt]

That's why I just ordered my Outlaws 'flat'.

[powdersoldier]

Yeah, in retrospect I should have gotten "flat" Recons instead of the integrated binding package.

I might try to warranty them and see if they will replace them with a "flat" pair of Recons and a comparable binding (I hope...).

[powdersoldier]

Also, I didn't mention this in my first post, but the toepieces did NOT shift from side to side when I first bought the skis, so it has gotten progressively worse over time.

[Duffman]

Slightly different binding rail system, but I have the volkl AC4 also with a stupid integrated binding system. My toepiece has quite a bit of play in it when the boot is out, but it does snap into place with the boot in. Apparently I was told this is normal and has to do with the floating binding on the rail and how it attatches to the piston. But some people with similar binding systems don't have this play, so take that FWIW. I haven't noticed this to be a problem with mine, and it doesn't seem to have much to do with my problem with the binders, namely the trademark low elasticity marker pre-release, which unfortunately is still alive and well.

[powdersoldier]

Thanks Duffman.

I haven't noticed the trademark Marker pre-release in my bindings (yet - knock on wood).

I talked to a few more shops, and all have said that there is a lot of movement in the Marker integrated bindings when they test the release. I've also contacted K2 to get their input. However, I have heard that on certain earlier productions of the Recon, the toepiece does move more than expected, I'm just not sure what they consider to be "more than expected".

I guess I am just concerned that it will continue to get progressively worse over time.

I'll take another look at it tonight - maybe it isn't moving as much as I think and I am imagining feeling it when I ski (although I did feel the ski acting strange BEFORE I noticed the binding problem). According to the shop, it is supposed to lock in place when the boot is in place, but I'm not sure that it is completely stable.

[stuckathuntermtn]

it was also brought to my attention that they move. and the system moves a lot. that's pretty shitty.

[powdersoldier]

K2's website says:

"The new K2/Marker M1 Ski-Binding System for 2006/07 sets the standard for performance and integrated industrial design. Central to the new design are the M1 titanium hubs that are imbedded into the core of the ski under foot and enveloped in light weight composite. This allows for a more balanced and centered fixture point. Fewer moving parts generates more power to the edge, quicker and more efficiently than conventional systems. Additionally, the design of the M1 toe and heel spacers are 30% wider than other rail systems thus extending binding contact points closer to the edge of the ski. This design increases leverage and power transfer. A fixed heel and floating toe drives power down and forward while still allowing the ski to flex freely, in a more consistent round arc thus maximizing the skis performance. A simple two step process is all it takes to slide and fix the drill-less M1 system on the ski quickly and effortlessly. State-of-the-art engineering and a sleek integrated design makes the K2 M1 a lighter, more powerful high performance system. Featured exclusively on the Apache & T:Nine Series."

"Fewer moving parts generates more power to the edge, quicker and more efficiently than conventional systems" - Seems like more moving parts to me - I've never had a conventional binding that moves like this. I don't see how a moving binding can generate more power to the edge quicker than a non-moving binding.

"This design increases leverage and power transfer." - Right. Seems like it DECREASES power transfer and leverage if the binding pivots from side to side.

"more powerful high performance system" - Doesn't seem so in my case.

The integrated binding system seems to be a step backward from conventional bindings, in my opinion. I love the skis, but the bindings leave much to be desired. K2 bills these as a "High Performance All-Mountain: Redefining the Freeride category, the Apache Series has been designed for aggressive, all-mountain use..." Overall, I'm terribly disappointed in the quality of the integrated binding.

[carlh]

they all do that, i work at a shop and asked the marker rep and he said the large tolerances were to allow the system to slide. sorry but thats life, dont buy markers next time, the brakes also dont function properly as the spring isnt stiff enough to pick up the ski.

[japollner]

Yea, Every single pair I have mounted has tons of play...they suck.

[Conundrum]

After reading TGR for the last couple years I'm starting to see a Marker theme here. Not judgin', just sayin'.

[powdersoldier]

Thanks everyone for the input! A little disappointing to learn after buying the skis that there is so much play in the binding system, but nonetheless I appreciate the comments.