Burliest AT setup

[kidwoo]

I skied my fritschis for 3 seasons stock before putting a 1/4" lifter under the heels. Made an immediate, huge difference. I have really inflexible ankles, so I just can't get my weight forward enough to initiate turns without some ramp. Believe me I've tried.

You went higher with a pair of fritschis? Could you finally see over your tips?

You still got that setup? I'm curious.

[skinnyskier]

i can say for sure that i can move prolly 20% faster on AT gear and *reasonable* skis. for sure.

for what alot of people do here, my setup would make me want to gouge my eyes out.

Our British guide in Switzerland thought R:EXs were way too much for an April ski mountaineering trip and couldn't conceive of going any bigger. "Horses for courses, mate."

[upallnight]

After five seasons in the BC, I have almost never seen anyone moving fast on a big setup. I know maggots will swear up and down that they can skin fast (say over 2000'/h) or very fast (say, 3000'/h) on 20+ pounds of gear and that's great. You guys are in rare company out there. What I see are guys on guide-width, R-EX width, and Havoc-width skis hauling ass up and down. Its not rare in a popular spot to pass guys on big gear on the way in and then lap them once or twice. If you're fit enough to move that fast on big gear, more power to you.

fully agreed. 2-3,000' an hour on >105mm waist skins with heavier at bindings or alpine bindings + trekkers + alpine boots would be extraordinarily rare and unsustainable for long distances.

but what i end up skiing in colorado is either
1. skinning up a drainage, get onto a ridge line and ascend/traverse for a while, till you drop.
2. switchbacking some trees for a 1000 feet.

and that's exactly where the choice of gear comes in. hiking with big skis on one's back is also feasible...if there's a nice bootpack and it's only a couple thousand vert.

it's more informative when people disclose what they ski/skin when stating why they choose the gear they do, instead of some (other) folks' blanket opinions about what's right or wrong.

If I'm in a hurry to get up the hill, I'll ride the chairlift......

and you'll get whatever snow has been skier-packed, cut by patrol, bombed, or fresh since the time lifts closed the night before.

it's not necessarily about being in a hurry, but there sure are times where an extra lap is nice, or being able to sneak out and make one lap during a busy day (when you otherwise would not have been fast enough)...or simply to have more energy on the downhill to work the skis, rather than rely on stiff boots or bigger gear.

[flip]

What I see are guys on guide-width, R-EX width, and Havoc-width skis hauling ass up and down.

I'm a whole lot faster on dynafits and sugardaddies than I was on fritschis and r:exs (obviously most of that is the dynafits). if there were a lot of lakes to cross, I might appreciate the glide on the skinnier skis, but more often than not it's a steep climb and the added width and skin surface is a bonus.

[wilcox510]

Our British guide in Switzerland thought R:EXs were way too much for an April ski mountaineering trip and couldn't conceive of going any bigger. "Horses for courses, mate."

I used to think this way, and even bought a pair of Shuksans for spring skiing to complement my Havocs. Then I skied similar conditions in both and liked the Havocs better, even on frozen corn. I no longer have the Havocs, and once they arrive, 179 Bros will be my do everything AT ski. I am still a bit concerned about using this wide of a ski for spring touring, but after hearing from Trackhead and others who have used them for this type of skiing, I think they will work fine. If corn is really in primo shape, something kinda skinny is great, but when you get the funky peudo corn, thats when the fat skis shine.

[kidwoo]

it's more informative when people disclose what they ski/skin when stating why they choose the gear they do, instead of some (other) folks' blanket opinions about what's right or wrong.
.

And I thought I was doing so well by not making comments about hiking up stowe.

[soul_skier]

why skin up stowe when someone, me, sets a perfect bootpack to the very top............just because he left his skins back in burlington......

[Rednas]

3,000 feet per hour? Please tell me how this is accomplished.

[skinnyskier]

I used to think this way, and even bought a pair of Shuksans for spring skiing to complement my Havocs. Then I skied similar conditions in both and liked the Havocs better, even on frozen corn. I no longer have the Havocs, and once they arrive, 179 Bros will be my do everything AT ski. I am still a bit concerned about using this wide of a ski for spring touring, but after hearing from Trackhead and others who have used them for this type of skiing, I think they will work fine. If corn is really in primo shape, something kinda skinny is great, but when you get the funky peudo corn, thats when the fat skis shine.

Yeah, and bottomless mush on the lower 1000' of a 6000' peak to valley descent would be way better on wider skis.

I've toured on Gotamas and currently Mantras which work just fine. I just haven't tried to keep up with the fast guys.

[Sphinx]

3,000 feet per hour? Please tell me how this is accomplished.

You just skin really fast. Plenty doable.

R:EX is my quiver of one. Works pretty well, but they are heavy.

[skinnyskier]

3,000 feet per hour? Please tell me how this is accomplished.

3000'/h is actually cruising speed for a fast racer type. The Ski Mountaineering World Championship has an uphill 1000 vertical meter sprint which was won in 25 minutes last year. It finished at 10,000' elevation.

[flip]

You went higher with a pair of fritschis? Could you finally see over your tips?

You still got that setup? I'm curious.

Nope, I sold it, but every tour we did before I got the dynafits was on that setup. Once you're up that high, another 1/4" in the back doesn't make a difference (except for skyrocketing me to a solid 5'5").

[leroy jenkins]

If you go back and read my comment it was about doing FULL DAY TOURS with trekkers. Also last I checked Dynafits were not made of plastic, but maybe you know something I don't. I'll refer to all the TR's by guys like Trackhead and Powstash about ripping day after day and being confident in Dynafits.

Feel free to come up to WB and join in on a tour to some gnar terrain with trekkers and you might not think too highly of them.

Yea, well I don't read shit, I just make blanket statements on topics which I am completly ignorant about.


I know trekkers are a pain in the ass, and not as good at skinning as a real AT setup. I know, following people with at setups, if you have trekkers, there will eventually come that point when the skintrack they set is just a tiny bit too steep, but it might as well be vertical, cus theres no way you're following it.

I also know that I have seen plenty of broken AT bindings, all brands, not always by heavy people.

I don't know why, but I never really get core shots. I've gotten like two in my life. Somehow, though, I seem to break a decent amount of bindings. I don't think that makes me hardcore, like as cool as highway star or something (I can only hope), but I just know that if I tried to ski an AT setup everyday in bounds, like I have seen others do, it would last about a month.

I also think there is no fucking point to having trekkers and alpine bindings if you're just mostly looking to tour/get some excersize, or something like that.

So, they each serve thier purpose, and each suck in thier own way. One thing you gotta love about trekkers though, is that all it takes to make any existing pair of skis your touring setup, is a pair of skins.

You guys get defensive

EDIT: If I was going to get some at bindings, it'd be dynafits for shizzle

[pde20]

oh, and choke slam & I have been talking about making super trekkers...

metal heel throw, and sawing the bottom of an old boot off for the DIN part. way tighter and way less slop. we'll see how it comes together... anyone have any 314-317 boots that are freebies?

I might have what you need, and whould be willing to part with them if you need things to guinea pig on. Salomon Course Axe boots in a 28 (not sure boot sole length on that...too lazy to dig them out of the garage death bin right now) They are well worn and the toe is ground down quite a bit from walking, but for this purpose i don't think a clean square DIN compliant toe is really that key. Let me know if interested...cause I'm interested in your idea of an improved upon ghetto rigged trekker.

[marshalolson]

I might have what you need, and whould be willing to part with them if you need things to guinea pig on. Salomon Course Axe boots in a 28 (not sure boot sole length on that...too lazy to dig them out of the garage death bin right now) They are well worn and the toe is ground down quite a bit from walking, but for this purpose i don't think a clean square DIN compliant toe is really that key. Let me know if interested...cause I'm interested in your idea of an improved upon ghetto rigged trekker.

thanks for the offer man. i am a 27. i think the 28 is 324

thanks though

[Particle]

Wow I forgot about this thread. Glad to see it's got a life of its own well beyond the original query. So now just to bring it back to the important bit: me! j/k

Just a bit of clarification on my original intent: This 'project' idea of mine was more to have a 'quiver' AT setup for things like going to the top of Superior and laying down a big line. Or seagull chute. Or Wolverine. Basically one-hitters where you skin up for a couple hours and nuke the hell out of whatever project you're after. Not anything that requires multiple laps, a climb out, etc. That would suck on a burly setup.

That said, I'm amazed by how many people rock the super heavy touring setups - hey, more power to you. While my AT setup isn't the lightest, it allows me to do what I want to do and is quite versatile. Just ask Powstash, I can rip just fine on that setup. It's just that next level...the level of aggressive skiing on the lines of a freeskiing comp that I'm talking about where it fails me. Honestly I think LB has it right - if I were any good at telemarketing, a pair of T-Races and Linkens would do the trick. But I'm not. I tour in tele gear occasionally but it kinda scares me b/c if shit hit the fan I would not be as able to get out of danger as easily as if I were on my AT rig.

so....how big of a guy are you?

to me, it sounds like you have AT boots that don't fit -- that problem would be mitigated with properly fitting boots.

I'm 5'10, 160lbs. There are no properly fitting AT boots for me. I've tried them all, and every last one is way too wide.

the forward-mount situation...well, that really has nothing to do with your AT setup.

True, and I'm getting it remounted further back ASAP.

kidwoo said it above -- your body can adapt to the ramp angle (you actually mean "delta") or lack of it quite easily, but the problem is likely that you switch setups frequently and, thus, it becomes more noticeable. this is also true for the boots.

it IS entirely possibly to rip "big mountain" lines on AT gear. the ONLY thing you might not be able to do is huck huge to firmer landings. (this assumes you're not over 200# or so, which may not be a safe assumption.)

dynafits are definitely a solid interface between boot & ski, but find fritschis workable in all situations. the toughest condition for them is fat skis (>100mm waist) + firm/icy terrain...even then, it's the skier, not the ski.

Again, I can ski hard on my existing Fritschis and AT boots. Softer boots are not an issue for me since I actually like my alpine boots pretty soft (loved the Flexon flex and my Sally's are 95 flex).

it's taken me time to get confident in the gear i use (basically all AT gear, all the time), and i know it very, very well. thus, i can go out and charge with it. maybe you just need more time on it to adapt a bit and develop that full confidence? maybe even do the mounts yourself (if you don't do so already) to learn what the AT mount issues are and how 'safe' it is.

I hate my Freerides on hardpack and resort. HATE. I can't really explain how little I like them on anything other than nice backcountry soft snow. They straight up blow IMO. But maybe the Pluses with the toe shim out will be marginally better. I'd be curious to try Dynafits but I just can't invest in an entirely new setup this year. So that's just not an option for me. It's not a matter of confidence or ability, trust me.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. Sounds like the distilled answer to 'burliest AT setup?' is:
-Dynafits on a burly 100-ish waisted ski.
(I'm not counting trekkers in this decision since I said so in post #1)

[dookeyXXX]

I think what Kidwoo said way back in the early stages of the post rings most true (but I'm also keeping in mind that it's really a "to each his/her own" quandry).

My buddy from Sun Valley only rides a Fritsche/Havok/Garmont set-up. We did Brighton, Alta, and Solitude last season together and he ripped me every time (I was on an alpine set-up of Mantras and Hot Rods and (choke, gasp, yeah, I know) Markers). He swears by the AT set-up, even for lift accessed charging. For comparison sake, he's a charger, I'm more conservative on the slopes, but will try anything within reason.

The tie-in to Kidwoo's post is that my buddy has never ridden Alpine gear, so he doesn't have a comparison. He also doesn't switch from AT to Alpine, so there's none of that feeling that one set-up is better. In fact, if anything, he's been bugging me to ditch my Alpine set-ups and re-mount all my skis with AT bindings and get AT boots, since he loves the lightness and nimble feeling of the set-up and gets tired of waiting for me to huff and puff up the hikes with my heavy-ass Mantra/Markers and downhill boots.

[fluffballs]

I'm a touring jong, and all my experience has been on spats with trekkers. I'm happy to say that will no longer be the case, I'm hoping 188 stiff BROs with nx21's and falcon boots will be more pleasant.

[dookeyXXX]

I'm a TJ, as well. Will be interested to hear about your Bro set-up.

Incindently, I have been steered toward the 179 soft as an AT ski...

[Particle]

I respect kidwoo's expertise on a bike. Not so sure about on skis though...

Seriously. 'Yes' you can ski an AT setup all the time, and you can think it's the tits. But simply by ignoring the fact that there are better tools for the job (resort skiing) doesn't mean that tool doesn't exist. Can I ski pow on a 210cm Rossi 7XK from circa 1992? Yes. Would I want to, knowing there are things like 189 Squads at my fingertips? Hell No. You can tell me that AT setups are fine and great and dandy for resort skiing or charging hard all you want; I've been a skier for 27 years and I've skied AT gear for the past 6 of those, and the plain fact is that AT gear simply does not ski as well as alpine gear. It. just. doesn't.

I have also skied with lots of 'good' skiers who swear by AT gear at the resort. To a one, they cannot hang.

/getting off my soapbox now.

In other news, I've been thinking about a Sanouk/Freeride Plus setup as a big mountain backcountry setup...I know MT ran the Sanouk/Linken setup last year to great success.

[lemon boy]

I've been thinking about a Sanouk/Linken setup as a big mountain backcountry setup...I know MT ran the Sanouk/Linken setup last year to great success.

Quit pussy footing around and man up. Otherwise, as stated TLT toe on your squads, d-fit toes in your flexons. I bet Andy can make you a quick disconnect mount so that the thing is a little bit more flush to the ski.

[Particle]

Quit pussy footing around and man up. Otherwise, as stated TLT toe on your squads, d-fit toes in your flexons. I bet Andy can make you a quick disconnect mount so that the thing is a little bit more flush to the ski.

But that means I'd have to get new tele boots /whine...

Come out to UT and show me what the hell you're talking about with the tlt and dynafit toes? What's the heel piece again? I'm cornfused. Can you just drill holes in your boots for the Dynafit pins?

[mc_roon]

In other news, I've been thinking about a Sanouk/Freeride Plus setup as a big mountain backcountry setup...I know MT ran the Sanouk/Linken setup last year to great success.

ive got Sanouks with nx21s sitting in my garage in PC right now...it blows that i am in california the day that the snow starts to fall. I am going to be mainly skiing at the Canyons(i know, i know) which means lots of lift accessed bc. Cant wait to get out on them. If your ever in the area or im up there your welcome to try them out.

[marshalolson]

FWIW iskibc hearts his sanouk/freerides too.

[soul_skier]

I respect kidwoo's expertise on a bike. Not so sure about on skis though...

Seriously. 'Yes' you can ski an AT setup all the time, and you can think it's the tits. But simply by ignoring the fact that there are better tools for the job (resort skiing) doesn't mean that tool doesn't exist. Can I ski pow on a 210cm Rossi 7XK from circa 1992? Yes. Would I want to, knowing there are things like 189 Squads at my fingertips? Hell No. You can tell me that AT setups are fine and great and dandy for resort skiing or charging hard all you want; I've been a skier for 27 years and I've skied AT gear for the past 6 of those, and the plain fact is that AT gear simply does not ski as well as alpine gear. It. just. doesn't.

I have also skied with lots of 'good' skiers who swear by AT gear at the resort. To a one, they cannot hang.

/getting off my soapbox now.

In other news, I've been thinking about a Sanouk/Freeride Plus setup as a big mountain backcountry setup...I know MT ran the Sanouk/Linken setup last year to great success.

I must say I agree partly with this. I agree on the different setups for different days. I have a few big, heavy, metal bindings, stiff boot setups for inbounds, some light as shit setups for OB, and some stuff in between for sidecountry.

I'll give you that AT gear doesn't ski as well as alpine gear inbounds, but I won't let you have the people on AT gear can't keep up with people on alpine gear at the resort. sounds to me like your "good" skiers aren't that good, but without other knowledge I can't make that blanket assumption. Really, i'm of the belief that on AT gear, you can't go straitline through hardcore crud, you can't huck anything bigger than 40', but unless the conditions are boilerplate ice and death cookies, and you're skiing conditions like the ones described above the entire day, you can keep up with alpine skiers. I'm not saying that a person with scarpa F1s, trab freerandos and tlt speeds is going to keep up with you, but I'm saying a person on nx21s, adreanlines/endorhins and a ski like legend pros will be able to.

as for the sanouk/freeride, my twin, mc_roon just mounted nx21s on sanouks, he won't get them out till the next big dump after dec 8th, but PM him after that to enquire..

oh, my personal setups,
193 db surreals w/ tlts (ultralight)
188 soft bros w/ nx21s (normal touring/sidecountry)
190 w105s w/ 920s+ trekkers (sidecountry)
186 Spatulas w/ mojo 15s and trekkers (short distance sidecountry)
185 pocket rocket w/ nx01s (early/late season touring, rock skis)

I'm a firm believer in my own ideals, no one setup is great for everything but every day has it's ideal setup, so diversify your shit before it's too late.