RECCO Reflectors Buy?

**TyWebb** · 10-10-2006, 02:00 PM

The Sessions Jacket I picked up off ball SAC recently got me thinking about the RECCO system that is included with the coat. For those who don't know what RECCO is:

(from the RECCO website http://www.recco.com/)
RECCO® is an avalanche rescue system utilized by more than 500 rescue organizations worldwide to assist in the efficient location of burials. RECCO technology enables rapid directional pinpointing of a victim’s precise location using harmonic radar. The two-part system consists of a RECCO® detector used by organized rescue groups, and RECCO® reflectors that are integrated into apparel, helmets, protection gear or boots. The reflector is permanently affixed, requires no training for use and needs no batteries to function.

Although similar in search procedure to transceivers, the RECCO system is not intended for self-rescue nor is it an alternative to transceiver use in the backcountry. Complementary in function, the system is an additional tool that does not interfere with other rescue methods such as avalanche dogs, transceiver searches or probe lines. The RECCO system facilitates a faster organized search for rescuers and provides skiers and snowboarders with one more chance to be found in time.

This topic has also been hashed out in a couple of good threads here. There is also some good technical information from Mags who have actually used the system:

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ighlight=RECCO
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ighlight=recco

Here is what I have found to be True with this System:

-The RECCO System is NOT a replacement for a transceivers, but it IS a quality passive option
-It IS a good option for inbounds and resort skiing
-Because of the body's density and the unpredictability of your body position in a slide, it is a good idea to wear 2 reflectors. Front and Back, Helmet and Boot etc..to be sure that at least one of them is not trapped beneath your body
-More than 350 resorts currently support the system. Here is the North American LIST
-The company is a quality operation that is quickly gaining acceptance at additional resorts and is making inroads with more and more gear companies.

Based on all that, I contacted their support department and asked about the possibility of a bulk purchase of reflectors. My inital thought was that they would make a great Christmas gift. A unique and thoughtful gift to all my friends and family that ski in anything with even a remote slide posssibility, and at resorts that currently support it.

A woman named Christina got back to me and let me know that reflectors can be purchased at http://www.mgear.com/ foor $25. She didn't answer my question about a bulk buy. So I have 2 questions:

1. Does anybody have a better lead on these reflectors at a better price?
2. Would anybody be interested in purchasing some of these if I can get get a better price on a bulk buy discount?

If you would be interested, post here how many "pairs" you would be interested in buying. I'll leave this thread up for a while and then use the posted numbers to give Christina an estimate on how many we would potentially buy.

**Boomer28** · 10-10-2006, 02:40 PM

First off, I'm glad you made sure to point out that they are NOT a substitute for Beacons.

As for the true usefulness of RECCO? I'm severly skeptical. Some close friends of mine that work at some of the resorts that have RECCO are less than pleased at what the "technology" represents.

RECCO has been sold to many as a safety marketing tool to the masses who will read that their resort uses it and thus feel safer. Truth is that if there is a slide at any resort the odds that patrol will be nearby with the search gear within the ever important first 15 minutes is a tough call. Additionally the "technology" is basically akin to a radar reflector and is far less precise than a true beacon handled by a trained user.

I'm not aware of anyone being saved by RECCO but I could see it's use as a corpse finder (in all seriousness). Shit like this just scares me as John Q Gaper buys his fancy new TNF/ArcTeryx jacket or smacks some on his gear and thinks he is now in a better position to handle the backcountry withouth any acutaly avalanche awareness or beacon training.

**~mikey b** · 10-10-2006, 02:48 PM

Wasatch Touring in SLC used to sell RECCO chips a couple of years ago. I didn't see them on the website, but you might call them.

801-359-9361

**cj001f** · 10-10-2006, 02:50 PM

mountaingear http://www.mgear.com sells chips.

No it's not a beacon, it's not as good as a beacon, blah, blah, but it is cheap redundancy.

**jSki** · 10-10-2006, 03:00 PM

I thought they only sold reflectors to manufacturers now to embed in boots and clothing. Problem was that people were putting them on their skis and not on their person.

I was talking about backcountry skiing with my old neighbor and mentioned beacons. He said he had a beacon in his coat (Recco) and thought this was a real beacon. The clothing manufacturers need to do a better job explaining the difference.

**Mr.Scruff** · 10-10-2006, 03:16 PM

I wrote a nice letter to Snow+Cock over here in the UK as they were advertising a £670 jacket as having a "RECCO transceiver" when it was simply one of the reflectors.

**TyWebb** · 10-10-2006, 03:17 PM

I agree with everything said so far....there is always going to be John Q. Gaper that thinks this is a beacon. He will also be expecting an Avi dog with a barrel of booze around its neck to appear immediately after a slide.

It is clear that this is NOT a beacon replacement, but is cheap; and is better than nothing for resort skiing. My thoughts were that we all have inbounds skiing friends and family that could potentially benefit from from wearing a pair. The fact that I'm talking about personally giving these to individuals I know should provide me the opportunity to explain to said Gaper that these are nothing more than a redundacy item and that they do not make skiing any more safe; in any location.

**~mikey b** · 10-10-2006, 03:30 PM

$25 at mgear. I think they were about 1/3 that at WT, but that was 2 years ago. Cheap redundancy is a good way to look at it.

Ran into a woman boarding solo in the Eaglecrest slackcountry last season on a touchy day, right after I'd just kicked off a pretty sizable slab on a short test slope. She wasn't worried though, she had her RECCO transciever. She was shocked to learn that the closest RECCO reciever was in Girdwood 600 miles away.

**Cruiser** · 10-10-2006, 04:57 PM

I have been thinking about picking one up as a retrofit item for a while now. It just seems like a cheap way to extend your protection. I don't wear my beacon in-bounds, and really who does? But if something stupid were to happen to me while skiing alone at a resort it would be nice to have something else for them to use to try to locate me.

That being said $25 bucks a pop for what amounts to a $.50 microchip seems like a total rip to me, particularly when you consider that the effectiveness of the device is still highly questionable. To answer the original question: Yes, I'd be down for a group buy but they would have to cost a helluva lot less than $25.

**iceman** · 10-10-2006, 05:03 PM

I would (i.e. will) buy some more, even at $25 a pop, but a group buy would be sweet. I understand all the issues and think that having them is better than not having them overall as long as you're not depending on them.

**skinnyskier** · 10-10-2006, 05:12 PM

It just seems like a cheap way to extend your protection. I don't wear my beacon in-bounds, and really who does? But if something stupid were to happen to me while skiing alone at a resort it would be nice to have something else for them to use to try to locate me.

Yup- it's not too hard to imagine someone setting off a slide during a big dump at Whistler.

I put a pair on each set of boots. And I got a set of Tornados this year, so I'm in for another set of Reccos.

And, yeah I believe in beacon search, companion rescue, safe travel in the BC, staying out of avalanches in the first place, etc.

**PacRimRider1** · 10-10-2006, 05:39 PM

I just got back from St. Vincent Depaul where I purchased a XXXL fartbag. Looking at it on the way home, a noticed two Recco reflectors on the sleeves. The thing has to be at least 10 years old. How long has this grand corpse recovery device been around?

**hutash** · 10-10-2006, 06:10 PM

I use them on my alpine boots, why not, it will at least save time on body recovery, and may help on an inbounds slide. For BC use they are strictly for body recovery. Someone needs to change the marketing, some of the above senerios are scarry.

**TyWebb** · 10-10-2006, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by PacRimRider1

I just got back from St. Vincent Depaul where I purchased a XXXL fartbag. Looking at it on the way home, a noticed two Recco reflectors on the sleeves. The thing has to be at least 10 years old. How long has this grand corpse recovery device been around?

On thier website it sounds like they started to make it into the relative mainstream in the early 1990's. I hadn't ever heard of them until a couple years ago.

**skiitsbetter** · 10-10-2006, 08:30 PM

They come in Protec helmets and Atomic boots as well. The Recco site is very explanatory, as well as the magazines that do reviews on product equipped with this feature, but for most of the manufacturers, they market it is a "pocket transciever", a magical safety device, and I am under the impression that it gives John Q Gaper a false sense of security. The real truth is that you still cannot search with it, and on anything other than a Recco reciever, it doesnt even register.

The only thing I can see the Recco used for is just inbounds skiing (though Parks Canada is now Recco equipped), there are some chutes and inbounds runs that do have the potential to slide, and people do ski those kinds of runs without gear. It does seem like the perfect thing to use for lets say skiing the South Chutes at SSV, or as a supplement to your beacon for D-Dive. The problem is that anyone who knows anything about RECCO, or is interested in the product probably already owns a beacon of some sort, and the stuff it comes on is already expensive enough to be exclusively for the hardcores...or the Gapers? The manufacturers definately need to do a better job of telling their customers that a Recco reflector is not a functioning beacon, and it should not replace one.

So I just have one question...Now that there are 300 some odd resorts/parks equipped with Recco in North America, how does that system work for people not equipped with the reflector?

**iceman** · 10-10-2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by PacRimRider1

I just got back from St. Vincent Depaul where I purchased a XXXL fartbag. Looking at it on the way home, a noticed two Recco reflectors on the sleeves. The thing has to be at least 10 years old. How long has this grand corpse recovery device been around?

Geez, what a fucking dick. And post 666 as well. Imagine that.

**BushwackerinPA** · 10-10-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by skiitsbetter

They come in Protec helmets and Atomic boots as well. The Recco site is very explanatory, as well as the magazines that do reviews on product equipped with this feature, but for most of the manufacturers, they market it is a "pocket transciever", a magical safety device, and I am under the impression that it gives John Q Gaper a false sense of security. The real truth is that you still cannot search with it, and on anything other than a Recco reciever, it doesnt even register.

The only thing I can see the Recco used for is just inbounds skiing (though Parks Canada is now Recco equipped), there are some chutes and inbounds runs that do have the potential to slide, and people do ski those kinds of runs without gear. It does seem like the perfect thing to use for lets say skiing the South Chutes at SSV, or as a supplement to your beacon for D-Dive. The problem is that anyone who knows anything about RECCO, or is interested in the product probably already owns a beacon of some sort, and the stuff it comes on is already expensive enough to be exclusively for the hardcores...or the Gapers? The manufacturers definately need to do a better job of telling their customers that a Recco reflector is not a functioning beacon, and it should not replace one.

So I just have one question...Now that there are 300 some odd resorts/parks equipped with Recco in North America, how does that system work for people not equipped with the reflector?

I have head that a cell phone can be picked up by the RECCO detector just like the reflectors. So thats how it works.

**Plakespear** · 10-10-2006, 08:50 PM

From what I have herd, some European rescue agencies have had some success with Recco. From what I remember they can recieve signals from a heli, so when they arrive on the scene they already have a good general location before they begin a beacon search. But I could be wrong. I'm a complete BC JONG, but anything that can help locate a slide victim faster is a good thing IMO.

Here's how I could see Recco helping to save a life:

1. Slide occurs. Victim Buried.
2. Partners call/radio rescue service.
3. Rescue service flies to slide site, while parteners begin beacon search.
4. Rescue service gets a general location using Recco reciever.
5. Using this general location, beacon search and probing locate exact location of victim.
6. Dig em out and give appropriate medical care.

**cj001f** · 10-10-2006, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA

I have head that a cell phone can be picked up by the RECCO detector just like the reflectors. So thats how it works.

Recco 'Reflector' is a tuned Diode. Almost all electronics now incorporate diodes - they'll just have shorter ranges.

**Sinecure** · 10-10-2006, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by PacRimRider1

The thing has to be at least 10 years old. How long has this grand corpse recovery device been around?

I remember getting RECCO stickers from some Swedish guide chicks back in 1986-7 or 87-8. So roughly 20 years. I had them on my ski boots for years.

I agree they are basically corpse finders. If it leads to increased Avy danger awareness, great. If it leads to a false sense of safety for gapers headed OB - well that's sad and Darwinian at the same time. If they started seeding the locater units to various places around the resort and at the OB access points - well that might be a true safety move if they were easy to use. Kind of like those defibralaters(sp?) they're putting everywhere now.

**iceman** · 10-10-2006, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Entropy

but I do think it gives ppl a false sense of security. I remember explaining to a client in Germany that it was not a beacon and that it would not help him "avoid" avalanches!

Same stupid-ass shit some fucking moron feels compelled to type every time this topic comes up.

Thanks for your input, though.

Moron.

**LightRanger** · 10-10-2006, 09:23 PM

Yeah, they've had them in Yurp for years. And apparently they work (link to article from this year):

http://www.avalanche-center.org/News...many-recco.php

Colin

**cj001f** · 10-10-2006, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Entropy

WTF is that about? Just sharing a my past experinces and you jump on me? fuck off.

I'll keep my opinion to myself from now on, guess this board is for 5,000+ posters only. So sorry to insult you.

Dude, you need this.

**iceman** · 10-10-2006, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Entropy

WTF is that about? Just sharing a my past experinces and you jump on me? fuck off.

I'll keep my opinion to myself from now on, guess this board is for 5,000+ posters only. So sorry to insult you.

I guess you think you're hurting my feelings?

You repeated something that was fucking stupid the first time it was said, and it's been repeated 900 FUCKING TIMES since then.

So fuck you, say something halfway fucking intelligent and we can move on.

**rideit** · 10-10-2006, 09:39 PM

Iceman for governor!!!

Truly, you have quite the way with diplomacy!

Seriously, though, when I first opened my shop in Driggs, there was a radio ad from a Rexburg (ID) snowmobile shop, advertising that they sold the "very latest in personal avalanche forecast equipment".

Shit, I gotta get me some of that!

THAT is some clueless shit, and propagation thereof.