Super Duper Secret Salomon Fatty

**marshalolson** · 01-03-2007, 11:06 PM

ummm... seriously?

**ill-advised strategy** · 01-03-2007, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by gwat

Hahaha. When was the last time Salomon mass produced a sandwich ski?

heh.. monocock

**mountain_man** · 01-03-2007, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by gwat

Hahaha. When was the last time Salomon mass produced a sandwich ski?

This super dooper fatty may in fact not be mass produced.

ghee i wondar.

**Alkasquawlik** · 01-04-2007, 02:29 AM

Okay Okay. I'll try to take a picture tomorrow. But I can tell you one little thing after talking to the ski product designer from Annecy.

-Skis like the pontoon and arg's are bent post molding. Obviously compromising the structrural durability and rigidity of the ski. Whereas the rocker on the Rockers are actually built into the mold. Therefore the durability and flex patterns are built into the ski during the molding process.

oh and one more thing 147-127-137. BOOYAKASHABAH!!!!

**Raps** · 01-04-2007, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

oh and one more thing 147-127-137. BOOYAKASHABAH!!!!

NIIIICE.....I LIKE

**BakerBoy** · 01-04-2007, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

Okay Okay. I'll try to take a picture tomorrow. But I can tell you one little thing after talking to the ski product designer from Annecy.

-Skis like the pontoon and arg's are bent post molding. Obviously compromising the structrural durability and rigidity of the ski. Whereas the rocker on the Rockers are actually built into the mold. Therefore the durability and flex patterns are built into the ski during the molding process.

Oh and one more thing 147-127-137. BOOYAKASHABAH!!!!

Remember the Volkl spray about how their cores are cut into the correct camber, from their own trees in Germany? Yeah, its probably like that. Depending on how much glass is in that ski, that might matter just as much... Whatever, sounds sick. Only if it has robots though.

**mountain_man** · 01-04-2007, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

-Skis like the pontoon and arg's are bent post molding. Obviously compromising the structrural durability and rigidity of the ski. Whereas the rocker on the Rockers are actually built into the mold. Therefore the durability and flex patterns are built into the ski during the molding process.

I thought that rocker skis were rockered in the press (the mold is bent). If your going to give us pics then can you tell us if its similar to the 193 EHP or DP 120.

Originally Posted by Raps

NIIIICE.....I LIKE

seconded

**Idris** · 01-04-2007, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

-Skis like the pontoon and arg's are bent post molding. Obviously compromising the structrural durability and rigidity of the ski. Whereas the rocker on the Rockers are actually built into the mold. Therefore the durability and flex patterns are built into the ski during the molding process.
!!!!

Sorry you are missinformed or talking out your arse. Rocker may be pre built into a core. But the Camber/Rocker of a ski is done in the mold. (or rather the camber block that supports the mold). Bending a ski post mold is difficult to impossible and inconsistent.

They are probably pre bending the core, and think that it's something new or special.....

**waxman** · 01-04-2007, 02:35 PM

"pontoon and arg's are bent post molding" maybe, but ask your designer from annecy why there is a cupped base on almost all the salomons out there in the tip and and tail, it ain't because the presses and molds they are using have the curvature of the tip and tail built in, it's because the skis are bent after release from the molds (where they are flat) the metal of the edges bends differently that the ski body hence the cupping....

**burny** · 01-04-2007, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by waxman

"pontoon and arg's are bent post molding" maybe, but ask your designer from annecy why there is a cupped base on almost all the salomons out there in the tip and and tail, it ain't because the presses and molds they are using have the curvature of the tip and tail built in, it's because the skis are bent after release from the molds (where they are flat) the metal of the edges bends differently that the ski body hence the cupping....

are you serious?

**flip** · 01-04-2007, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

-Skis like the pontoon and arg's are bent post molding.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

edit: I see 12 other people beat me to it. whatever. what you're saying is basically impossible, especially on a non-metal ski. However, some companies may build the skis with more camber than they want and then cycle the ski to relax the camber which greatly increases the life of the ski. Burton pioneered that for snowboards... I don't know who does it on their skis. And that would probably never apply to a reverse camber ski.

**weibo** · 01-04-2007, 03:25 PM

^^^ For the reverse camber would that be re-cycling.

**flip** · 01-04-2007, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by waxman

it's because the skis are bent after release from the molds (where they are flat) the metal of the edges bends differently that the ski body hence the cupping....

This thread is awesome.

**Alkasquawlik** · 01-04-2007, 07:09 PM

you can call me a 'talker-out-of-ones-asser' but this was directly from one of the white coats from France.

The mold gives the rocker, not a post-molding bending process.

**Casino Waitress** · 01-04-2007, 07:20 PM

cocktails................

cocktails.........................

cocktails.................

**waxman** · 01-04-2007, 08:04 PM

burny, about what? one of the big pitches by salomon at one point was the revolutionary factory processes that they used to build skis
one such process was the "flat press" or molds that allowed them to have 5 presses in the same space as 3 or 4 in other factories thereby being more efficient or something
having tuned my fair share of their skis before my current job took me away i see no reason to doubt the story now....

**hop** · 01-04-2007, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

you can call me a 'talker-out-of-ones-asser' but this was directly from one of the white coats from France.

And you believed those surrender monkeys? You're getting brainwashed by your spancer mang. Snap out of it.

I've seen the molds on Vashon (or I guess Seattle now) and I can tell you that your info on the Pontoon is wrong. And the Pontoon is the best powder ski ever... trust me I know.

**burny** · 01-05-2007, 02:39 AM

@wax: I dont doubt the story, I just never heard of it and like idris Im pressing my own skis and I just have troubles to imagine how that is done. But well, a company like salomon surely has waaay more possibilities like us homegrown skibuilders.
Thanks for the info ...

**Skibuilder** · 01-05-2007, 06:42 AM

As i am a gear fetishist even building my own skis i closely follow all those new gear threads. Really excellent information!!!!

The post molding bending process seems strange to me. As skis are generally build with epoxy resin - which turns out to be not malleable after fully cured - i wonder how they manage to soften the matrix to make bending possible!? Additionally the bending process would require an additional mold to achieve consistent results. Seems to be to much effort and no real win in the production!?

@Burny -it's me Alex - i finally joined TGR too

**waxman** · 01-05-2007, 02:53 PM

iirc, it wasn't an extra mold it was kind of a big piston machine that the skis went into flat and a big set of opposing calipers (almost like disc brakes but not directly opposed) closed on the ski (maybe heat was involved?) and a ski with a tip and a tail came out the other side
as i mentioned it's been a couple of years since i worked on salomons so maybe the "cupping/concavity" isn't as prevalent, but interestingly atomic was syaing at one point that certain models of their skis had the same "cupping/concavity" built in to enhance carvability...
of course the sparks coming out of various grinders across the nation to flatten the ski may have had something to do with that story?

**waxman** · 01-05-2007, 03:03 PM

burny on side note a i had an athlete who bent a pair of really really fast super g skis (volkl) and we couldn't get the bend out using traditional bending bars
at the same time a buddy of mines dad was a materials engineer/instructor at University of Calgary he was in the shop getting his skis and asked us waht we were doing, we explained, and he said something alongthe lines of "you'll never get them straight like that, come up to my lab"
sure enough we go there and he set up this big bench vice type of thing up which had these holes in it to put pins/rods in to do custom bends on different types of metal/material to demonstrate the various properties of stuff
he isolated the bend and in about 5 minutes had the skis back to matching camber/shape....

**BigLineSeeker** · 01-05-2007, 05:20 PM

We seem to be getting a little off topic. Where are those pics?

**Alkasquawlik** · 01-05-2007, 05:25 PM

Hey dudes/dudettes, I'm just passing along info to you gear whores. I really couldn't care about how the presses mold camber, rocker or robots into the skis. It's great that you guys know this kind of stuff and I'm learning something about the process, but the fact is I don't race any more so concave, convex, and bevel are really no longer in my dictionary. What I do know though, is that dav and I were grinning ear to ear today ripping around in marginal, wind-blown conditions. The skis are fucking sick and I'm so fucking stoked on the fact Salomon made a ski such as the Rocker.

**jerr** · 01-05-2007, 06:14 PM

Thanks for the info so far Alka, but what's the deal with the tail that we've heard so much about? is it weird? I like weird...

(...and the photos mang!!!!!)

**shirk** · 01-05-2007, 06:42 PM

Dear Santa

Mr name is Alkasquawlik I could really use a camera for Christmas this year so I can show all my internet friends cool skis and stuff.

I left milk and cookies for you two years ago and you brought all that snow to Tahoe, this year I really want a camera.

Alkasquawlik

What Alka should have sent to Santa this year.