Armada ARG

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

i personally am excited about em even tho i probably won't be buying a pair.

yup, same here. It's all cool shit.

[ski_faster]

Still don't have my Powder. Is there a retail price listed in the buyers guide?

[ptavv]

i like my spatulas

everyone's all hopped up on the next big innovation and everything

i'm sticking with what i know i like until shit gets worked out (and i can buy them cheap )

[FREESKIER_FIVE-0]

For those who dont have powder:
Retail is $800.

Description:

Length: 185
Dimensions: 125-135-133-134-120 (as said above)

"The dimensions you see abome do not contain typos. That's the shape of Armada's ARG, "La Gorda," which the company plans to release mid season. This Frankenski has a similar shape to the Spatula, with a reverse camber at the tip and tail, but with a slight sidecut underfoot to give it more versatility. Look for this freak of nature sometime in November"


pic coming soon

[tharmor]

[FREESKIER_FIVE-0]

Nevermind, tharmor has got it covered.

Thanks tharmor

[splat]

Agreed on that front (KW mega fat?).

I love how more companies are "thinking outside the box" (and I've supported the Spat for a while now. What bugs me is that it sounds like what is passing for "innovation" is really just copying some of the "new" designs that have been out for a little bit -- and maybe adding a slight tweak so that it is not just a full rip-off.

That *may* not be the case with the ARG, but that's my guiding principle, and from the above it sounds like it's more immitation than innovation.

I support true innovation.

To hear Stephan Drake talk about the dynamics of the 138 and how it works is inspiring.

Drake is innovation personified.

We're also linking our sites this year. You won't see that with very many other ski companies.

Just so y'all know where the bro vibes reside...

[Mikey]

First off i'd say that the Tabla Rasa deserves more of a place in the innovation hall of fame than the Lotus 138. I might be wrong on this but the Tabla had a total carbon construction, whereas the Lotus is still essentially a wood core - all be it a light one.

Furthermore, the first Lotus 138 style ski i.e. reverse camber, low profile tip/tail, with very slight conventional sidecut in centre of the ski was designed by Trevor Hiatt, a Jackson local and member of the Head International Team. Trevor has been riding various incarnations of this ski for over 2 yrs now. In fact i remember seeing a photo on this very site of the skis last year in Lenas - with a Monster 103 topsheet. Originally they were build by the Igneous guys, and you'll still occasionally see Adam rocking some of the early protos in Jackson.

Word is that Trevor took these to the International R&D meeting at Whisler last year, and Jon Olssen loved them so much he told Head to hold off on his new pro model and build these instead. Will have to wait and see if anything comes of that.

At the end of the day though what does it matter. Choice is a great thing, and aside from scumbags like Goode, i'm all for people taking existing designs and trying to make them better.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

First off i'd say that the Tabla Rasa deserves more of a place in the innovation hall of fame than the Lotus 138. I might be wrong on this but the Tabla had a total carbon construction, whereas the Lotus is still essentially a wood core - all be it a light one.

Furthermore, the first Lotus 138 style ski i.e. reverse camber, low profile tip/tail, with very slight conventional sidecut in centre of the ski was designed by Trevor Hiatt, a Jackson local and member of the Head International Team. Trevor has been riding various incarnations of this ski for over 2 yrs now. In fact i remember seeing a photo on this very site of the skis last year in Lenas - with a Monster 103 topsheet. Originally they were build by the Igneous guys, and you'll still occasionally see Adam rocking some of the early protos in Jackson.

Word is that Trevor took these to the International R&D meeting at Whisler last year, and Jon Olssen loved them so much he told Head to hold off on his new pro model and build these instead. Will have to wait and see if anything comes of that.

At the end of the day though what does it matter. Choice is a great thing, and aside from scumbags like Goode, i'm all for people taking existing designs and trying to make them better.

interesting post. thanks.

Speaking of Igneous and innovative skis, let's not forget about the "3T" shape that Igneous had on their website I guess it was about 2 years ago now. I don't think it had any type of reverse camber, but it did have a sidecut very similar to that of a Pontoon. i.e. huge at the tip, thinner in the waist, and then the narrowest part of the ski at the tail...basically a giant tear drop. I haven't heard of anyone who actually skied the 3T though, and I think it was only up on Iggy's website for a season.

[leroy jenkins]

You guys should still go into a store and check out the current issue of podwer (if its hit shelves yet). Once you see the pics side by side, its much easier to compare and contrast.

[bossass]

First off i'd say that the Tabla Rasa deserves more of a place in the innovation hall of fame than the Lotus 138. I might be wrong on this but the Tabla had a total carbon construction, whereas the Lotus is still essentially a wood core - all be it a light one.

Furthermore, the first Lotus 138 style ski i.e. reverse camber, low profile tip/tail, with very slight conventional sidecut in centre of the ski was designed by Trevor Hiatt, a Jackson local and member of the Head International Team. Trevor has been riding various incarnations of this ski for over 2 yrs now. In fact i remember seeing a photo on this very site of the skis last year in Lenas - with a Monster 103 topsheet. Originally they were build by the Igneous guys, and you'll still occasionally see Adam rocking some of the early protos in Jackson.

Word is that Trevor took these to the International R&D meeting at Whisler last year, and Jon Olssen loved them so much he told Head to hold off on his new pro model and build these instead. Will have to wait and see if anything comes of that.

At the end of the day though what does it matter. Choice is a great thing, and aside from scumbags like Goode, i'm all for people taking existing designs and trying to make them better.

I agree about Drake. Dude knows it and kills it at the same time. I'm not backing the all carbon thing however (and I think it's not just convenience that he's incorporating wood back into his skis). I skied the 120 and Surreal, and while they were stupid light, they were so light it was actually kind of annoying. Harder to feel the ski and they deflected in chopped up snow quite easily. I'm all for light skis, but at some point you give up performance. I think the DBs crossed that line.

[adam]

Look interesting, but I'd pitch in the extra $100 to go with the 138s. But then again, lotus's are kind of more of an overkill, and I like the topsheet a whole lot. And they are a little bit more attainable than the lotus's. I guess we'll see. Depends on me getting a job.

[upallnight]

To hear Stephan Drake talk about the dynamics of the 138 and how it works is inspiring.

Drake is innovation personified.

We're also linking our sites this year. You won't see that with very many other ski companies.

Just so y'all know where the bro vibes reside...

thanks for that info, splat.

i'm glad to support both companies!

[upallnight]

I agree about Drake. Dude knows it and kills it at the same time. I'm not backing the all carbon thing however (and I think it's not just convenience that he's incorporating wood back into his skis). I skied the 120 and Surreal, and while they were stupid light, they were so light it was actually kind of annoying. Harder to feel the ski and they deflected in chopped up snow quite easily. I'm all for light skis, but at some point you give up performance. I think the DBs crossed that line.

hey, bossass --
interesting perspective. have you skied any of the dp models?

do you recall what the DBs weighed in at?

The dps are still >8 lbs, which is light for the size but not light.

Edit: I'm trying to say that they are light in a relative, but not absolute, sense - yet achieving that weight for that size (with durability) is pretty amazing.

[freeskisquaw]

Look interesting, but I'd pitch in the extra $100 to go with the 138s. But then again, lotus's are kind of more of an overkill, and I like the topsheet a whole lot. And they are a little bit more attainable than the lotus's. I guess we'll see. Depends on me getting a job.

My feelings too, and its not even 100 with the rep codes.

[upallnight]

Look interesting, but I'd pitch in the extra $100 to go with the 138s. But then again, lotus's are kind of more of an overkill, and I like the topsheet a whole lot. And they are a little bit more attainable than the lotus's. I guess we'll see. Depends on me getting a job.

Curious: What do you think makes the 138s overkill (any more than a Pontoon, EHP 193, ARG, Spat, etc)?

Are you saying you like the ARG topsheet more? I'm the reverse...but, then again, I like stealth solid black or solid white topsheets...

[upallnight]

i'm still "stuck" on page 24 (count 'em)

[Kya]

I'm stoked about all these new options. When I opened Powder's Buyers Guide I was like There are so many 100mm+ waist skis. And the more companies that make a Spat-like ski, the more chance I have to own a pair.

[shmerham]

Here's an idea: maybe, just maybe, Armada and Stephan had similar ideas rolling around in their head and Stephan's hit the slopes first. The lotus just made it's way to the slopes winter this year. Somehow I think Armada was developing this ski well before the start of '06. It's not like DP figured out cold fusion, and Armada just happened to figure out cold fusion 6 months later. Plus, if Armada can make a lotus and sell it for 2/3 the price, that's innovation.

[marshalolson]

the arg looks pretty cool. stoked to ride a pair.

but a glass/wood ski for $800 and a wood/carbon ski for $850 are not really in the same ballpark

[Conundrum]

do you recall what the DBs weighed in at?

Hey UPN, I bought some DB Surreals from Mikey last year. Thanks Mikey, those things are great for tours man!



Not very accurate, but on my bathroom scale, 193 Surreals (around 95 at the waist, very similar dimensions to Explosivs) weight in at just over 8 lbs with TLTs for the pair.

Bossass is right, they are almost too light. They get bounced around a little in wind chop and set up stuff. They are torsionally stiff though. And for yurt trips and longs tours, I can't complain. I've got a couple burlier setups I'd rather take on shorter days.

When I break these, I'll definitely look at some Wailers.

As for the ARG, the more crazy weird shit to choose from, the better.

[FREESKIER_FIVE-0]

As for the ARG, the more crazy weird shit to choose from, the better.

And the more companies that make a Spat-like ski, the more chance I have to own a pair.

Exactly.


Upallnight-Your not the only one. Take it out and put it on your fridge or something. It makes getting through the rest of the mag easier. And you wont get anything "stuck."

[bossass]

Hey UPN, I bought some DB Surreals from Mikey last year. Thanks Mikey, those things are great for tours man!



Not very accurate, but on my bathroom scale, 193 Surreals (around 95 at the waist, very similar dimensions to Explosivs) weight in at just over 8 lbs with TLTs for the pair.

Bossass is right, they are almost too light. They get bounced around a little in wind chop and set up stuff. They are torsionally stiff though. And for yurt trips and longs tours, I can't complain. I've got a couple burlier setups I'd rather take on shorter days.

When I break these, I'll definitely look at some Wailers.

As for the ARG, the more crazy weird shit to choose from, the better.

This is a good assesment. The surreals would make an ideal touring ski. The ones I skied had P12 demos on them and they were still stupid light. For hitting early spring mank in Granite Canyon, however, they are not all that. I guess good for touring in primarily untouched snow. Wind ripples or sun cups, hell no.

I'm stoked DP is back to wood cores. The skis are still desireably light, durable, and super solid (or so I've heard).

Stephan is awesome too. When I can afford it, I'll own a pair. But right now I'm probably setting up for a bro deal on ARGs, which I think look better than Pontoons.

[upallnight]

Here's an idea: maybe, just maybe, Armada and Stephan had similar ideas rolling around in their head and Stephan's hit the slopes first. The lotus just made it's way to the slopes winter this year. Somehow I think Armada was developing this ski well before the start of '06. It's not like DP figured out cold fusion, and Armada just happened to figure out cold fusion 6 months later. Plus, if Armada can make a lotus and sell it for 2/3 the price, that's innovation.

point taken, but they're using different materials.

you could definitely argue that as innovation, but to say that they created a 'lotus @ 2/3 the price' would be disingenuous.

[splat]

But right now I'm probably setting up for a bro deal on ARGs, which I think look better than Pontoons.

It's all in the topsheet.

Looking at the lines, Pontoons vs ARGs are a night and day comparison.
I personally think the ARG graphics are ultraschweet.