Choosing a recumbent bike... how to?

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 07-17-2006, 06:49 AM

Anyone have any good tips or specs I should look for when buying a 'bent?

Use:
biking to and from work... 17k one way ticket
possibly also some free time speeding

Roads/ terrain:
primarily specific bike roads as usual in the NL
tarmac
lots of open, flat, windy, "polder" country
no "off road"

Should be able to pack some clothing as well as my briefcase. It rains here quite often so I'd like raingaurds as well.

Personal specs: 78kg
Like to ride : "fast" but not a racer
Never ridden a 'bent before.

I hope I will enjoy riding my bike even more i.e. get more mileage...

At the moment I'm thinking of the following bikes:
Challenge Fujin
Challenge Taifun
Challenge Huricane USS
Optima Stinger
HP Velotechnik Speedmachine USS
M5 Shockproof
Flevo Racer

All tips are welcome.

**Choke Slam** · 07-17-2006, 09:45 AM

just say no to " 'bents"

if you really want one, you may want to try one first. Just make sure those toe clips are real tight on the first attempt...

**Blatant** · 07-17-2006, 10:02 AM

Why do you want one?

**Telenater** · 07-17-2006, 10:04 AM

Try them...
I wouldn't buy without trying first. 'Bents have a significantly different feel and take some time to get used to even if you're an accomplished bike rider.

That being said, there is no better form of human powered vehicle for commuting fast, straight, and flat than a recumbent. I've got an old Easyracer TourEasy that I use for a 15mile (one way) commute. It's fast, easy, and comfortable. It's also somewhere around 20% more efficient at speeds where air resistance is the dominant form of friction than a regular upright road bike.

Last week, I caught and passed a large pack of riders on racing bikes from the UC Davis bike team. They were doing 22mph, and I was doing 27 into a strong headwind.

Looks like the bikes you're looking at probably answer some of my complaints with mine (very long wheelbase, very old frame spaced for old components).

**rideit** · 07-17-2006, 12:49 PM

There is probably a booth at the next Star Trek convention.

**Rontele** · 07-17-2006, 01:35 PM

nothing against you...but

the only thing harder than riding a recumbent bicycle is telling everyone how GAY YOU ARE.

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 07-17-2006, 02:35 PM

Bummer if you have problems telling ppl you're gay.

I on the other hand just need a fast and efficient ride to commute from A to B in flat and windy Holland. If you have any better options please tell me. As for how it looks: who cares.

**Rontele** · 07-17-2006, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Tectonically_Neglected

Bummer if you have problems telling ppl you're gay.

I on the other hand just need a fast and efficient ride to commute from A to B in flat and windy Holland. If you have any better options please tell me. As for how it looks: who cares.

can't you ice skate everywhere in Holland?

(jk of course). and I wasn't trying to be mean, just pointing out that most recumbent riders here stateside look a little quirky.

it was a bad joke.

**rideit** · 07-17-2006, 02:40 PM

Aha! Holland!
That changes things.
Go for it.
Flowers, cheese, wooden shoes,flower fetishes, semi legal pot, and recumbents.
It all makes sense now.

I heart Holland.

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 07-17-2006, 02:53 PM

Completely legal pot actually.
As for skating: the dutch are pretty heavily into speed skating.

And you forgot the windmills. We all live in windmills.

No offence taken at all. Hell, I can see how many 'bents are gay. The ones, I'm pondering though are less gay than most...

Lastly, about hearting Holland: what are you? Nuts? This place is the soggy armpit of Europe. Exactly no hills or mountains whatsoever...

**Spats** · 07-17-2006, 02:59 PM

tectonic: I've been riding bents for over five years and can offer my experience. Currently I ride a Bacchetta Giro 20.
http://www.bacchettabikes.com/recumb...kes/giro20.htm

I'd recommend borrowing or renting a beater for a few days so you can get the feel of riding. You'll tip it over a couple times as you learn, and it's best to do that with something that's not shiny new.

Clipless pedals are mandatory for all recumbents. Use flats to learn, but once you've got the hang of riding, clipless saves you the energy of holding your legs up.

Question 1: how high a bottom bracket do you want? Some of the racier bikes have a BB well above the seat. A few people get numb toes in this situation. I don't, but I've found that a very high BB, while more efficient aerodynamically, actually is more work to pedal because I'm pushing my legs uphill. This is only a win if I'm really cranking hard and moving fast. For daily riding, I'm actually faster on my Giro 20, with a BB ~4" above the seat, than my old Reynolds Wishbone with a BB ~13" above the seat.

Question 2: is the seat comfortable? All the bikes you mentioned have hardshell seats. They don't fit everyone, so you have to sit on them first, hopefully for an extended period of time, to figure out whether they'll work for you. They also come in sizes, so make sure to try your proper size. My Giro has a mesh seat, which isn't quite as efficient if you're pedaling squares, but is very, very comfortable. I just shift down and spin.

Also, the mesh seat means I don't mind not having suspension on my bike.

Question 3: How high off the ground do you have to be to feel comfortable riding in traffic? Some of the bikes you mentioned, especially the ones with dual 406mm wheels, sit you very low to the ground. I know you've got a lot more bike paths in NL, but it's still a concern.

Unless you're short, for this reason I suggest looking at dual 559mm bikes like the Optima Cougar, Challenge Seiran, or the Shock Proof 559.

Question 4: Do you like underseat steering, chipmunk bars, or Superman bars? Most Euro 'bents have chipmunk bars (hands in your chest)...the Superman bars (hands outstretched, outside your legs) are more popular in America.

Basically you should go to the store and sit on a bunch of different ones. Since you've never ridden before, balancing will be a problem. Ask if they have a trainer so you can get the feeling of pedaling without tipping over a new bike.

The Flevo Racer has that weird mid-steering thing, which takes a *long* time to learn, because you're steering with your feet, not your hands. They're fine on the flat, but every once in a while people crash them horribly on fast downhills in the mountains. I'm scared of them, myself.

Drop me a PM with any more questions: I'm glad to help.

And Rontele: Suck it.

**rideit** · 07-17-2006, 03:04 PM

Well, I have fond memories of some cute girls that I had great sex with in college, even if they turned out to be soggy bitches in the end as well.
I have had some great times in Holland...but i wouldn't live there!

I thought everyone lived in giant wooden shoes....

**Rontele** · 07-17-2006, 03:08 PM

spats, everyone knows the gayness factor is reduced when you are not wearing a helmet with one of those rear view mirrors

Edited for a lack of spelling on my part.

**rideit** · 07-17-2006, 03:13 PM

Is that a mo-lette?
SWEET!

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 07-18-2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Spats

tectonic: I've been riding bents for over five years and can offer my experience. Currently I ride a Bacchetta Giro 20.
http://www.bacchettabikes.com/recumb...kes/giro20.htm

I'd recommend borrowing or renting a beater for a few days so you can get the feel of riding. You'll tip it over a couple times as you learn, and it's best to do that with something that's not shiny new.

Clipless pedals are mandatory for all recumbents. Use flats to learn, but once you've got the hang of riding, clipless saves you the energy of holding your legs up.

Question 1: how high a bottom bracket do you want? Some of the racier bikes have a BB well above the seat. A few people get numb toes in this situation. I don't, but I've found that a very high BB, while more efficient aerodynamically, actually is more work to pedal because I'm pushing my legs uphill. This is only a win if I'm really cranking hard and moving fast. For daily riding, I'm actually faster on my Giro 20, with a BB ~4" above the seat, than my old Reynolds Wishbone with a BB ~13" above the seat.

Question 2: is the seat comfortable? All the bikes you mentioned have hardshell seats. They don't fit everyone, so you have to sit on them first, hopefully for an extended period of time, to figure out whether they'll work for you. They also come in sizes, so make sure to try your proper size. My Giro has a mesh seat, which isn't quite as efficient if you're pedaling squares, but is very, very comfortable. I just shift down and spin.

Also, the mesh seat means I don't mind not having suspension on my bike.

Question 3: How high off the ground do you have to be to feel comfortable riding in traffic? Some of the bikes you mentioned, especially the ones with dual 406mm wheels, sit you very low to the ground. I know you've got a lot more bike paths in NL, but it's still a concern.

Unless you're short, for this reason I suggest looking at dual 559mm bikes like the Optima Cougar, Challenge Seiran, or the Shock Proof 559.

Question 4: Do you like underseat steering, chipmunk bars, or Superman bars? Most Euro 'bents have chipmunk bars (hands in your chest)...the Superman bars (hands outstretched, outside your legs) are more popular in America.

Basically you should go to the store and sit on a bunch of different ones. Since you've never ridden before, balancing will be a problem. Ask if they have a trainer so you can get the feeling of pedaling without tipping over a new bike.

The Flevo Racer has that weird mid-steering thing, which takes a *long* time to learn, because you're steering with your feet, not your hands. They're fine on the flat, but every once in a while people crash them horribly on fast downhills in the mountains. I'm scared of them, myself.

Drop me a PM with any more questions: I'm glad to help.

And Rontele: Suck it.

Cheers for the info.

Concerning your questions:
1,2 Wouldn't know, need to find out first.
3 Gonna get advise from one of the shops close by. I def wouldn't want to got the way of the really low reacers, due to visibility. I see a lot of ppl here riding with a (gay) orange flag on a 1.5m flexible pole mounted on their 'bents. This would help for visibility somewhat.
4 As for now, I kinda dig the underseat steering but connot speak out of experience. The superman bars 'look' tiring.

The Flevo racer is more gimmicky interest, to be honest. I don't think I'd ever be off my rocker enough to buy a contraption like that. That said, if I ever try it out and if someone can convince me why it would be a faster ride than any other type of recumbent, I'd be willing to lend a serious ear.

Up to now, any and all (sports) gear I have bought has been high(ish) end stuff that is geared more towards perfomance without completely sacrificing comfort. For the bike I'm looking for, it will be the same: I'll be riding it mostly to work and back but will also take it on the occasional spin (=workout) where I wouldn't mind blasting by 90% of a road racers...

Plan de campagne is to drop by a few shops in the area, play around and rent different bikes and get a feel for what I fancy.

At the moment I ride to work on a simple 5 gear sports bike. I'm liking the excersise a lot but I'm not sure what I'll be doing once the weather changes to wind, rain and sleet this autumn and winter. If I'm still on my normal bike, I'll invest in a 'bent. Otherwise, I'll just have to sack up. All in all, I don't expect to be buying one on a spur of the moment thing.

Thanks for all the advice up till now everyone!

**Telenater** · 07-18-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Rontele

spats, everyone knows the gayness factor is reduced when you are not wearing a helmet with one of those rear view mirrors

Edited for a lack of spelling on my part.

The gayness factor gets reduced even further when the local bike clubs recognize you as the person that easily passes their evening peloton.

Who cares if a recumbent looks a bit strange? It's faster and easier to cover distances when you can get up to speed. Choose the right tool for the job.

**Spats** · 07-18-2006, 01:52 AM

The good thing is that all the bikes you mentioned are solid and high-quality. Europe gets a much better selection of aggressive recumbents than America. Unfortunately they tend to be a bit heavy, but in NL I don't think you care too much.

I think that suspension is unnecessary weight and complication, but my seat is probably cushier than the ones you are looking at.

I strongly recommend you rent or borrow a beater for about a week and learn to ride a recumbent. Once you get used to riding and steering, you'll be able to actually decide which one feels more natural for you. Otherwise you'll be shooting in the dark.

Then, make sure your choices take fenders and a rack. If you're commuting, or doing anything but sport riding, you need a rack to carry things.

Keep us posted!

**flowtron** · 07-19-2006, 09:08 AM

Spats....can you bunnyhop yer 'bent?

Have you ever seen it done?

**homerjay** · 07-19-2006, 09:43 AM

How do 'bents corner? Like an aircraft carrier?

**Spats** · 07-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by flowtron

Spats....can you bunnyhop yer 'bent? Have you ever seen it done?

No, and no. I don't think the physics works...a really strong guy might be able to lift the front wheel an inch or two, but I don't see how you lift the rear.

For serious deep urban work, i.e. anything where you have to hop up curbs regularly, a recumbent is not the right tool. I rode mine around San Francisco all the time, but if I were a downtown messenger, I would use my upright.

**Spats** · 07-19-2006, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by homerjay

How do 'bents corner? Like an aircraft carrier?

If I'm any slower than on my upright, I don't notice.

However, it takes practice to get there, since you can't use body position and have to do everything with the handlebars. Learn to countersteer.

The only problem I notice is that serious low-speed riding (like walking pace or below) is harder.

Of course, this depends on the recumbent. This bike (similar to what I own):

will turn a lot faster than this bike:

I recommend the first type for serious cyclists or anyone who rides for transportation (SWB for "short wheelbase, meaning that the cranks are in front of the front tire). The second type (LWB for "long wheelbase") is heavier, difficult to turn in tight spaces, and is really more of a comfort bike for people who don't like high bottom brackets. Although if a comfort bike is what you want, they're a lot of fun to ride.

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 07-20-2006, 01:12 AM

That 2nd bike DOES look pretty gay... I understand where all the negative vibes come from if that's a regular 'bent over there in the US

**Spats** · 07-20-2006, 01:46 AM

Actually it's even worse. For a long time, this was considered the pinnacle of recumbent design in the USA:

And ugly tanglebeasts like this still sell well, for reasons that escape me:

I guess if you live in Iowa and have a big garage and never actually have to lift your bicycle off the ground or ride it up a hill, they're very comfortable. But damn, they're ugly.

I like my Giro. But it's not sexy, like this:

Or this:

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 05-02-2007, 08:27 AM

Just to keep anyone interested informed, I tried out a few bikes before the winter. Then rented one for a week (Nazca Fuego)...

... What a sweet ride! Got a good amount of km's under the belt on that one.

Winter came and went. And I am still interested in a 'bent.

Have now officially started looking. As things stand I'll probably go the route of a 2nd hand bike. Browsing the 2nd hand market has me salivating over a M5 High Racer at the moment...

If I had the money I'd go the route of a Challenge Fujin though.
Will keep y'all informed about progress.