Real Estate Crash thread

[4matic]

A dirt pimp on the forum PMd me and let me know that on average an experienced agent (that gets their 2.5 or 3%) will sell your house faster for more - based on data he pulled for his local listings. Basically you'll get the hustle of an agent with a long career working their network. He made the point that if you were listing in 2021, you would have done great with Redfin, but in a market like the one we have now, an agent has more to offer.

Our mortgage payment is about 0.5% of the home price, so if an agent can sell our house a few months faster, the difference between them and Redfin becomes pretty small. It would be helpful to sell quickly, so we're leaning traditional agent now. If time wasn't a factor, we'd probably be more inclined to use Redfin.

Bullshit. That’s why the NAR is being sued and will likely lose. Listing agent doesn’t do dick. Pay 1%. If you want the pimps circling for blood offer the full 3% to buyer agent.

[4matic]

“the verdict handed down in a Missouri court on Tuesday that found NAR and two brokerage firms, Homeservices of America and Keller Williams Realty, were liable for $1.8 billion in damages for conspiring to keep commissions artificially high, may mark the beginning of the end of how homes are bought and sold.”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/05/h...fee/index.html

[AdironRider]

The vast majority of agents don't do shit. That drives my personal opinion they are relatively useless. If they didn't exist at all, they wouldn't be missed.

That said, within the current system, probably 1 in 100, or lets say even 10%, really hustle. The know the market, the players, and have clients they can persuade. They get the majority of the deals done. I was fortunate to have one of these when I sold my house in Victor. Guy got me at least an extra 100k from an all cash buyer because of his hustle, whereas the other realtors I've used were just meh. That probably isn't the case if realtors don't exist and the lawyers just process paper, but I was happy in that instance. The rub is not everyone gets to use those rock stars.

[schuss]

The vast majority of agents don't do shit. That drives my personal opinion they are relatively useless. If they didn't exist at all, they wouldn't be missed.

That said, within the current system, probably 1 in 100, or lets say even 10%, really hustle. The know the market, the players, and have clients they can persuade. They get the majority of the deals done. I was fortunate to have one of these when I sold my house in Victor. Guy got me at least an extra 100k from an all cash buyer because of his hustle, whereas the other realtors I've used were just meh. That probably isn't the case if realtors don't exist and the lawyers just process paper, but I was happy in that instance. The rub is not everyone gets to use those rock stars.

Totally agree. The good agents are really, really good, while the rest are meh to terrible. Not to mention all the collusion and shady stuff that goes on in giving sweetheart deals to friends/family on underpriced homes etc.

[dan_pdx]

“the verdict handed down in a Missouri court on Tuesday that found NAR and two brokerage firms, Homeservices of America and Keller Williams Realty, were liable for $1.8 billion in damages for conspiring to keep commissions artificially high, may mark the beginning of the end of how homes are bought and sold.”

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/05/h...fee/index.html

I know, I think the existing order is on the way out, but unfortunately I don't have time to wait for the conspiracy to crumble before listing.

[dan_pdx]

Totally agree. The good agents are really, really good, while the rest are meh to terrible. Not to mention all the collusion and shady stuff that goes on in giving sweetheart deals to friends/family on underpriced homes etc.

Hard to know, but I think we have a good one. She's a broker, part of a well-established national agency, and seems to sell a fuck ton of houses.

[4matic]

I’d like to hear what a listing agent actually ads to an average listing. I’m not talking $10mm properties and the like. Every buyer agent gets the latest listings so what value ad does a listing agent bring? The only one I can think of is legal support from their local association.

I’d wager a Redfin agent will give you a set of facts as to why they will get you more vs the full fee agent. Alternative facts and all that.

[phatty]

It's been 17yrs since I sold a house, but even then, I used a full service agent from a national agency and he only charged 1%. He sold a ton of houses. I suspect there's agents like him out there in Spokane as well.

[schuss]

Hard to know, but I think we have a good one. She's a broker, part of a well-established national agency, and seems to sell a fuck ton of houses.

If they are anticipating your needs, listening to you and being very proactive on what you should be thinking about while having a ton of unpublished knowledge on the neighborhood and relative turnover, they're good. The best agents I've met in this are know the neighborhoods, the general ages/composition of the neighborhood as well as likelihood of moving. Was stunning to hear one expound on "for this neighborhood, this family probably sells in 3-4 years as their last kid leaves high school, then you'll get 3-4 others selling once people see the price it sells for", then repeat that for a few others in the area. The best agents know all the listings before they even hit the market as well so you can be in the first 5 shown the place. Same agent had my friend lightly refresh their kitchen as they were angling for a quick sale and all of her book would have waited if it had a beatup kitchen. Sure enough, sold the first week after they had listed and taken off a few months before.

[AdironRider]

I’d like to hear what a listing agent actually ads to an average listing. I’m not talking $10mm properties and the like. Every buyer agent gets the latest listings so what value ad does a listing agent bring? The only one I can think of is legal support from their local association.

I’d wager a Redfin agent will give you a set of facts as to why they will get you more vs the full fee agent. Alternative facts and all that.

A strong network and a shitload of clients looking to buy.

You sold a house on Redfin, and posted about several fuckups that happened along the way that cost you time, and probably money. I'm surprised at your defense here. That said, I ultimately agree if agents didn't exist at all no one would really miss them, but with the market as currently constructed, there are indeed a select few that can work in your favor.

[liv2ski]

A dirt pimp on the forum PMd me and let me know that on average an experienced agent (that gets their 2.5 or 3%) will sell your house faster for more - based on data he pulled for his local listings. Basically you'll get the hustle of an agent with a long career working their network. He made the point that if you were listing in 2021, you would have done great with Redfin, but in a market like the one we have now, an agent has more to offer.

Our mortgage payment is about 0.5% of the home price, so if an agent can sell our house a few months faster, the difference between them and Redfin becomes pretty small. It would be helpful to sell quickly, so we're leaning traditional agent now. If time wasn't a factor, we'd probably be more inclined to use Redfin.

I am uncertain those claims are correct. I have done loans from 1984 to 2022 and the occasional sale for friends. Last time I listed a property the owners cleaned the place up real good, painted it and emptied it out to make it look more open with no input from me. Their property received multiple offers and was the highest sale ever in their project. It sold for $20k more than they or I could justify based on the closed comps.
My point being, I was a know nothing hack helping out my friends and they sold it at the highest price ever and for more than the KW agent that dominates their development suggested it would go for. So ya, IMO whoever sent you that PM doesn't know it all.
Edit to add: The Redfin agent I hired is very experienced and had great reviews.

[406]

I used Redfin to sell my condo in 2018. Seemed like she did all the expected stuff, put together a nice looking listing. If I recall correctly, she listed a little higher than I expected and we didn't get much activity. I suggested a price reduction and it sold soon after. She could have told me not to sell and wait until Aug 2022 to sell...I would have given the extra 2% for that, ha.

Used a rando traditional agent for buying the house in now and he was worthless.

[4matic]

A strong network and a shitload of clients looking to buy.

You sold a house on Redfin, and posted about several fuckups that happened along the way that cost you time, and probably money. I'm surprised at your defense here. That said, I ultimately agree if agents didn't exist at all no one would really miss them, but with the market as currently constructed, there are indeed a select few that can work in your favor.

It wasn’t Redfin and wasn’t the agents fault. In fact, my 30 year discount agent (1%) protected me like a hero champ from a dishonest buyer. I bought with Redfin. Coulda done better but my discount agent was taboo to deal in new zip. Realtor mafia.

[4matic]

A strong network and a shitload of clients looking to buy.

So you are advocating double dealing by the listing agent? Some won’t do that because of ethics.

[AdironRider]

I’m not going to argue with you because the the current system isn’t great, but I did benefit personally in one instance, so just consider it one data point.

[anotherVTskibum]

$425k for 3k sq ft in Killington, complete with "fire pole" and shag carpets--bring your own talent and cameras:
https://www.boston.com/real-estate/h...e-swing-sauna/

[Toadman]

As has been repeated in this thread many times - Boomers aren't moving out of their 4-5 bdrm, 3,500-5,000 sq. ft homes.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/16/econo...ies/index.html

Although my in-laws are putting their 5 bdrm, 4k sq. ft CT home on the market beginning of next month and moving to tax friendly DE.

Parents sold and downsized several years ago. Just my aunt and uncle here in Bend the lone holdouts that went big and their 5k sq ft. home, but the views of the Central Cascades are to die for.

Meanwhile, Baby Boomers are staying in their larger homes for longer, preferring to age in place and stay active in a neighborhood that’s familiar to them. And even if they sold, where would they go? There is a shortage of smaller homes in those neighborhoods.

As a result, empty-nest Baby Boomers own 28% of large homes — and Milliennials with kids own just 14%, according to a Redfin analysis released Tuesday. Gen Z families own just 0.3% of homes with three bedrooms or more.

“Boomers love their homes. Even if they did want to sell, it is now prohibitively expensive for many Millennials,” said Sheharyar Bokhari, senior economist at Redfin, who did the analysis, to CNN. “These are larger homes where there are only one or two people living there and, typically, they bought it a while ago, so it has value.”

[AdironRider]

This supposed issue of boomers aging in place in homes to large for their current household size seems like putting the cart before the horse.

I think the world would be better served just getting off the pot and building more housing to start, then maybe shift to maximizing carrying capacity.

Besides almost all of them have leveraged that house in some way shape or form so they aint selling regardless.

[Toadman]

This supposed issue of boomers aging in place in homes to large for their current household size seems like putting the cart before the horse.

I think the world would be better served just getting off the pot and building more housing to start, then maybe shift to maximizing carrying capacity.

Besides almost all of them have leveraged that house in some way shape or form so they aint selling regardless.

I agree, but it would interesting to see if new home construction would be faster than the great Boomer homeowner die off.

[yeahman]

Besides almost all of them have paid off that house so they aint selling regardless.

FIFY

[neufox47]

A strong network and a shitload of clients looking to buy.

So you’re relying on a realtor, to bring their buyer clients, to buy the house they listed!? Seems dubious.

Does anyone even really use their realtor to steer them into houses anymore? We bought in 18 and 21 and both times we found the house looking at Zillow or Redfin, then the realtor just got a showing setup. Most of the time we saw all the houses they were pushing us before they sent the email.

What could a realtor do that would out market the promotion listing with Redfin gives you? Redfin listings are more likely to be deemed a “hot home” and they get priority listing / pushed to any users of the app.

[Foggy_Goggles]

So I'm cruising the web drinking coffee and a say, "hey, that's not a bad price for a rental"...oops that's per night not per month. https://rockies.craigslist.org/apa/d...710583165.html

Anecdotally, more and more 2nd homeowners that actually use their houses in my neighborhood are STRing when they are not there.

[liv2ski]

Looks like mom's home is selling for an all time high in her project. Cash offer over asking price with a 10 day close. The other 7 offers are likely pissed today. I guess the market under $600k is still really strong in CA, even if it is the Inland Empire.

[goldenboy]

So I'm cruising the web drinking coffee and a say, "hey, that's not a bad price for a rental"...oops that's per night not per month. https://rockies.craigslist.org/apa/d...710583165.html
.

Dang, that place wasn't exactly super luxe, either.

Just like sellers have their own motivations, so do STR owners. Some will rent a place for any price as long as they can keep the cash register humming along. This one seems like the owners will rent it if someone will pay their high price, but are happy to not have the wear and tear if not.

[skaredshtles]

Dang, that place wasn't exactly super luxe, either.

But "knotty alder cabinets"!!