Real Estate Crash thread

[oldnew_guy]

Wait, what? The inspection that you're paying for? The house that you're buying? That's seriously fucked up.

That was my reaction when I told him I would be there.

[dan_pdx]

Last home inspector I had that was recommended by a buyer's agent ignored a visibly subsiding back porch and said "everything in this house is quality". 🤣

One before that (different town, recommended by a different buyer's agent) missed ceiling water stains that from the outside appeared to be the result of improper flashing. I was buying remote, but a local mag did a walkthrough and saved me from that one. The idea that a buyer's agent is going to recommend someone who routinely gives deal squashing feedback is about as believable as Santa Claus

[oldnew_guy]

Last home inspector I had that was recommended by a buyer's agent ignored a visibly subsiding back porch and said "everything in this house is quality". 藍

One before that (different town, recommended by a different buyer's agent) missed ceiling water stains that from the outside appeared to be the result of improper flashing. I was buying remote, but a local mag did a walkthrough and saved me from that one. The idea that a buyer's agent is going to recommend someone who routinely gives deal squashing feedback is about as believable as Santa Claus

My experience is that most buying agents are not worth the fee and maybe a significant reduction in their numbers will improve the quality.

Also, like you note, they just have to much incentive to steer you wrong. It's better to hire your own review of title docs, inspection, etc.

I've had generally good experiences with selling agents, but I think the incentives are more aligned (ie - sell the house for the best price).

[4matic]

Yeah, my seller agent “inspector” was a sham. Put a nice package together though. Buyers were wise to hire their own in addition.

[MultiVerse]

I've had similarly bad experiences with buying agents. Games with the inspection, games with the financing, and attempting to steer towards homes where they were also the selling agent.

Last home inspector I had that was recommended by a buyer's agent ignored a visibly subsiding back porch and said "everything in this house is quality". ��

We bought a house knowing it needed a new roof. At the time of the April inspection it snowed a couple of inches so the inspector recommended by both the selling and buying agent versus me wanting someone independent left the roof condition blank saying he couldn't inspect due to snow. The seller ended up deducting the roof replacement from the final price, but that was no thanks to either agent.

[4matic]

(ie - sell the house for the best price).

I’m not sure about the “best price” part. They just want a closed deal like the buyer agent.

[schuss]

If the realtors I've had experience with are any indicator, they're going to clean up. Every one was in the target 35-45 y/o demo with long blonde hair, ~5'5" and very attractive.




Wait, what? The inspection that you're paying for? The house that you're buying? That's seriously fucked up.

Yeah, ours walked us through everything they were doing and why, as well as which things we should continue to check vs. are fine as a one time. Only time he warned us off was climbing into the attic and on the roof of "I'll have pictures and comments, you don't need to deal with that bullshit/hurt yourself"
He said the main risk was getting bored as he meticulously tested every outlet, wire and checked things. Absolutely saved us from one house that was the summation of 30 years of "lowest bid contractor" work.

[Ted Striker]

Last buying agent I had told me a day before the inspection by the inspector that I a) couldn't attend the inspection and b) couldn't inspect the house myself because "you might break something".

Fuck that guy. Seemed fine right up to that point.

Wow. There are no rules against it in WA. And in the rare instances I hired a guy, I was there with him.

[skaredshtles]

Sounds like there are some buyers' agents that need to be called to the mat for failing their fiduciary responsiblity.

[XXX-er]

I hired a building inspector who found a few minor things, L Hutz made sure the deal went smoove and i found a basementsuite tennant on the way to pu the key

[Ted Striker]

Buyers agents are done.

For sure.

[Ted Striker]

Sounds like there are some buyers' agents that need to be called to the mat for failing their fiduciary responsiblity.

Barriers to entry too low. Same goes for home inspectors.

[BmillsSkier]

While one door closes another opens.

I predict that you will see a lot of the bored housewife agents leave the RealtorTM gig and transition nicely into the small business owner gig, filling that periodically-empty storefront on your town's Main St. with a mix mash collection of clothes, knick-knacks, accessories and lifestyle items while it loses $10k a month until the lease expires and the next one backfills it.

[dunfree]

I see Only Fans benefitting from this. Any halfway hot stay at home mom who used to have a real estate license...

the hungry ones were already using it as a marketing avenue.

[Toadman]

I guess all those switch hitting buyers agents are going to go all in as sellers agents. When we bought our first place here, we used a family friend that was recommended by my aunt. Transaction went really well, and she worked her butt off for us. We did end up getting a nice bonus out of the deal. The buyer's agent had this little guy that we picked up after closing.

[neufox47]

Last home inspector I had that was recommended by a buyer's agent ignored a visibly subsiding back porch and said "everything in this house is quality". 🤣

One before that (different town, recommended by a different buyer's agent) missed ceiling water stains that from the outside appeared to be the result of improper flashing. I was buying remote, but a local mag did a walkthrough and saved me from that one. The idea that a buyer's agent is going to recommend someone who routinely gives deal squashing feedback is about as believable as Santa Claus

I’m about to sue an inspector for the job he did on my parents house in small claims. Missed pretty obvious water damage from an active roof leak, his professional liability insurance company denied the claim due to the inspector pointing out water damage in the other garage that came in from where the sill plate meets the floor. I was incredulous. We are talking two separate rooms, there’s not even a door between them. The damage I’m claiming came from a leaking roof. They were like, “he pointed out water damage in the garage”.

We’ll see if we can get it heard in small claims, contract has an arbitration clause and a defined party as arbitrator who charges a $700 filing fee. Contract also says liability is limited to the lessor of his fee or actual damages . Cost to fix is about $10k. My parents are elderly and my dad is disabled (deaf and blind in one eye). State is CA.

[4matic]

Redfin has a 2% total commission offer if you use them on both sides.

[Timberridge]

So why dont you dumbasses find your own inspectors?

[Red7]

Maybe this has already been discussed - does anyone think real estate attorneys are going to become more popular? Maybe not for first time/less experienced home buyers, where a good agent can be super helpful. But for a more seasoned home buyer wouldn't it be feasible to bypass the buyer's agent altogether and just have an attorney review the paperwork to make sure you're not missing something or getting fleeced? Wouldn't that usually be way less expensive than even paying a lower commission to a buyer's agent?

Absolutely, we just bought a home in Utah and I represented myself as the buyer. It was very simple where I found a few houses I wanted to look at, contacted the listing agent and when I found the one, I wrote the contract and the listing agent explained to the seller that my lower offer included 3% that she wouldn't have to pay in commission to the buyer's agent. She accepted and I did the due diligence like I would have if I had a buyer's agent and the deal closed smooth as can be. I have done the same thing on all recent purchases and haven't used a buyer's agent since I bought my first home many years ago. Once you've done it once, you realize how little they really do if you are the one finding the properties. I do a similar thing when selling where I find a listing agent who will take a flat 1% to put it on the MLS and then I do offer any buyer's agents their commission if they bring me a buyer (though some I've sold directly to a buyer on Zillow). I've probably saved close to a modest home in all of the commissions I've avoided paying over the past 20+ years.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good Realtors out there and there are some unique properties where a Realtor earns their keep but that's a small % of properties and the vast majority of regular transactions can be handled by most people who have bought a home or two to be comfortable with the process.

[Red7]

Having lived in a ski town, like 50% of my social circle has their realtors license (slight exaggeration but if you know you know). Every single one of them is delusional in their thinking that this isn't going to radically change the market for not just buyers agents, but also sellers agents as well.

Buyers agents are done. Everyone has zillow or realtor.com, and the idea that realtors were "fiduciaries" and pointing out anything of importance to a buyer just isn't the case. That has always been the lawyers and title guys doing that work. The only people arguing otherwise are realtors. Second, now that hiring a realtor is not a requirement to get on the MLS, sellers agents just lost the moat around their business. In a seller's market, a FSBO can now get on the mls and bypass all of the seller side bullshit. On an average home, there is no reason a sellers agent can justify 15k for a couple open houses or showing up to open a door.

I bet dollars to donuts, this is what you will see:

99% of the buy side will now be handled by the lawyers and title companies for flat fees. These already only cost a couple grand, at most, and are typical closing costs. No change here in terms of cost to the buyer.

On the sell side, you will see ala carte pricing for photos, admin work like placing the listing on the mls, etc. Lets say thats a grand or two. Commissions will drop significantly with pressure from FSBO and discount brokerage firms (redfin, etc). I bet within 5 years the standard is 1%.

Exceptions: ultra-luxe locales like Jackson, Aspen, Hamptons, which will still justify the network of a realtor that hustles and a nice marketing package. But that average 450k home in the burbs, yeah no. The only thing propping up the realtor industry was collusion and the moat surrounding the mls. Both are gone now.

Market price of a home is market price of a home, I don't think you will see much change in overall cost of real estate, but it is going to get cheaper for sellers, and at worst, stay the same for buyers. Within a few years people will realize that there is little a 1k real estate lawyer can't tell you within an hour of research at the town clerks office or just reading p&z regs for the area, and this "fear factor" of buying a house because it is expensive will recede substantially.

Yep, I agree with this. And the listing broker I worked with recently must see this coming as well as he was more than happy to allow me to represent myself as the buyer and we both agreed at the end, that this was one of the smoothest RE transactions you could have. As you mentioned above, the title company provides checks and balances. In UT, no lawyer was needed but when I represented myself in NC, a lawyer was so I paid him his small fee (which I would have still had to pay if I had a buyer's agent).

[Art Shirk]

Guy I know started this site 24 years ago and made things pretty easy for people. Cut out more of the middle man.

https://mls4owners.com/?gad_source=1






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[Red7]

He was “more than happy” because he probably got both sides of the commission.

Except, you missed the part where I said listing agent and seller agreed to reduce the price by an additional 3% since they wouldn't be paying buyer's agent (me) a commission.

[RoooR]

Is there anything that buyers agents do that can't be effectively automated using AI? Seems like a ripe place for a tech startup to charge a flat fee.

[Ted Striker]

Redfin is trying it. Not sure if it's fully baked yet.

[yeahman]

Is there anything that buyers agents do wrong that can't be effectively done wrong using AI?

FIFY